New York State Bulls?

[JM57]

Well, the reason I put a "may" in there is because I am uncertain, but I would guess that it's still right near the top with enrollment, and I believe that it's still got the biggest & most prominent research grants.

According to the most recent figures I found, UB is around 28,000 (all students) and Stony Brook around 24,000. Albany is around 17,500 and Binghamton just short of 15,000.

 

Binghamton and Stony Brook are higher in the most recent US News rankings by a relatively small margin (89 and 92 to UB's 106). But it seems the money really lies at UB, with their massive $700+ million endowment, compared to $110 million at Stony Brook and $80 million at Binghamton

Edited April 8, 2013 by JM57

[zow2]

Well, the reason I put a "may" in there is because I am uncertain, but I would guess that it's still right near the top with enrollment, and I believe that it's still got the biggest & most prominent research grants.

 

I think if you want to make a case for anyone for SUNY flagship, it's UB vs. Stony Brook. Both are Association of American Universities (AAU). That's really the cream of the crop as far as prestige for universities (research $$, doctorates awarded, graduate studies, professional schools, etc..). UB and Stony Brook are 2 of the only public universities that are AAU members and NOT part of the BCS football landscape.

 

UB is the largest enrollment of all the University centers and the UB endowment dwarfs anyone else in SUNY. I'd say give the NYSU flag to Buffalo!

Edited April 8, 2013 by zow2

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I think if you want to make a case for anyone for SUNY flagship, it's UB vs. Stony Brook. Both are Association of American Universities (AAU). That's really the cream of the crop as far as prestige for universities (research $$, doctorates awarded, graduate studies, professional schools, etc..). UB and Stony Brook are 2 of the only public universities that are AAU members and NOT part of the BCS football landscape.

 

UB is the largest enrollment of all the University centers and the UB endowment dwarfs anyone else in SUNY. I'd say give the NYSU flag to Buffalo!

 

[JM57]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqSCsg4_Xlo

 

Just going off your sig, are they really projecting TJ Johnson as an OG now? As a Gamecock fan I've watched him the last 4 seasons and seen a big improvement in his game. I thought he was pretty solid at C, and he wasn't asked to be mobile too often. Are you calling him an OG based on projections? Or because you think that's his best fit with the Bills since Wood is at C?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just going off your sig, are they really projecting TJ Johnson as an OG now? As a Gamecock fan I've watched him the last 4 seasons and seen a big improvement in his game. I thought he was pretty solid at C, and he wasn't asked to be mobile too often. Are you calling him an OG based on projections? Or because you think that's his best fit with the Bills since Wood is at C?

 

Draftek had him as a guard so I grabbed him there. I'm not too familiar with him but he is a bull and he looked good at senior bowl.

[PromoTheRobot]

If you go to UBfan.com there is discussion of this topic, as you could imagine. I'm fine with a name change but I'm a bit confused. I had read that this was attempted in the past and the other SUNY centers vetoed it. Now I hear that they have no veto power. So which is it?

 

PTR

[PearlHowardman]

It's a dumb idea. I live in Syracuse and I know for a FACT that there's TONS of SU fans not only in Syracuse but Rochester, as well.

 

UB is way too far west in NYS (and Stonybrook is too far east) and the SU fan base in central New York will stifle any growth of a UB fan base east of western New York.

 

Geographically either Binghamton or Albany would make sense.

Edited April 8, 2013 by PearlHowardman

[PromoTheRobot]

If anyone cares to read the UBfan thread on the topic.

 

www.UBbullrun,com is a good site for Bulls news. Here's their take. Note the commentary on the Buffalo News.

 

PTR

Edited April 8, 2013 by PromoTheRobot

[bbb]

These guys might not agree with your post.

 

http://www.nyu.edu/

 

Yeah, I was going to say that. I always figured that is why Penn State is the flagship for PA. Since U of Pennsylvania was already taken?

 

If you go to UBfan.com there is discussion of this topic, as you could imagine. I'm fine with a name change but I'm a bit confused. I had read that this was attempted in the past and the other SUNY centers vetoed it. Now I hear that they have no veto power. So which is it?

 

PTR

 

I was thinking, while reading this, that it wouldn't be UB or Buffalo people who would or should have a problem with it. (I think it's a great idea and thought it was when Golisano first brought it up), but the 3 other university centers of SUNY might have a problem with UB being the flagship!

[BRH]

It's a dumb idea. I live in Syracuse and I know for a FACT that there's TONS of SU fans not only in Syracuse but Rochester, as well.

 

UB is way too far west in NYS (and Stonybrook is too far east) and the SU fan base in central New York will stifle any growth of a UB fan base east of western New York.

 

Geographically either Binghamton or Albany would make sense.

 

There are SU fans all over the state. That's why the Garden is a home away from home for them. That's also why they bill themselves as "New York's College Team." I don't think it matters where you put the flagship public school; Syracuse is still going to cast a mighty big shadow. Lansing and Ann Arbor are closer together; so are Manhattan and Lawrence; so are Ames and Iowa City, etc etc etc, and those states have smaller populations than NYS.

 

That said, as a huge Cuse fan and an alumnus of UB's law school who lives in Rochester, midway between the two... I'd love to see it happen. Why couldn't we have our own version of Duke-Carolina or Stanford-Cal? Both those examples are of schools closer together than Cuse and UB. And Rochester would be the epicenter of the rivalry.

[dave mcbride]

The knee-jerk reaction is certainly to think it is bad for Buffalo. But it really is not. Look across the nation. Almost every state has a "_____ State University," whether it is the biggest sports program in the state or not. The fact that NY has never had that flagship university in NAME is almost baffling, considering the size of the state.

 

Just listing off the top of my head: Washington St, Oregon St, AZ State, OK State, Kansas St, Iowa St, Michigan St, OHIO STATE, PENN STATE, Mississippi St. And those are just the ones named that way. Then you have the "University of ______" (Florida, Michigan, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Iowa, Cal, Oregon, Washington, etc) which are also flagship public college.

 

College sports fans could CERTAINLY name where most of those campuses are located. It may take "Buffalo" out of the name, but it will never take Buffalo out of association with the campus. When I think "Penn State" I don't think of Pittsburgh or Philly. I think of State College.

 

The reason they don't have a flagship university is because the SUNY system was modeled on the UC system, which was by far and away the best public university system in the country at the time (and still is, for that matter). Unfortunately, the system came into being at a moment when NY State had just begun a long era of relative decline (the early 1960s). The Berkeley of the system was supposed to be UB, which has the only law school and for a long time had the only medical school. Unfortunately, it never came to pass, and now UB isn't even the second most selective university in the system (it falls behind Binghamton and Stonybrook). Nor did it ever evolve into a top-flight research institution. In retrospect, the state should have created a system modeled on Michigan/Michigan State, with the flagship school somewhere in the Hudson valley and the analog to MSU somewhere upstate. No use crying over spilled milk, though ...

Edited April 8, 2013 by dave mcbride

[Mr. WEO]

I don't understand the point of a name change. For the next 20 years, they would be repeating over and over...

 

We used to be called U Buffalo and are still in Buffalo.

 

No, we are not NYU, that's different.

 

This has to be Golisano's silliest idea ever.

[Endless Ike]

The knee-jerk reaction is certainly to think it is bad for Buffalo. But it really is not. Look across the nation. Almost every state has a "_____ State University," whether it is the biggest sports program in the state or not. The fact that NY has never had that flagship university in NAME is almost baffling, considering the size of the state.

 

Just listing off the top of my head: Washington St, Oregon St, AZ State, OK State, Kansas St, Iowa St, Michigan St, OHIO STATE, PENN STATE, Mississippi St. And those are just the ones named that way. Then you have the "University of ______" (Florida, Michigan, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Iowa, Cal, Oregon, Washington, etc) which are also flagship public college.

 

College sports fans could CERTAINLY name where most of those campuses are located. It may take "Buffalo" out of the name, but it will never take Buffalo out of association with the campus. When I think "Penn State" I don't think of Pittsburgh or Philly. I think of State College.

 

The general rule of thumb is that "University of ______" is the primary university, with best academics and resources, while the ________ State is secondary.

 

I don't understand the point of a name change. For the next 20 years, they would be repeating over and over...

 

We used to be called U Buffalo and are still in Buffalo.

 

No, we are not NYU, that's different.

 

This has to be Golisano's silliest idea ever.

 

Because you will get statewide fans to the sports teams and applicants to the University if the branding is successful.

[zow2]

The general rule of thumb is that "University of ______" is the primary university, with best academics and resources, while the ________ State is secondary.

 

 

 

Because you will get statewide fans to the sports teams and applicants to the University if the branding is successful.

 

Which probably doesn't work in the case of Ohio State and Ohio University.

[PearlHowardman]

There are SU fans all over the state. That's why the Garden is a home away from home for them. That's also why they bill themselves as "New York's College Team." I don't think it matters where you put the flagship public school; Syracuse is still going to cast a mighty big shadow.

 

I'm as big a fan of SU as anyone but the "New York's College Team" slogan is just that - a slogan. If SUNY put a flagship football team at Binghamton or Albany, SU would be marginalized to central and western New York.

 

SU football played in NJ and the Bronx in the past year and neither game sold a lot of tickets.

 

The more I think about this, from a SU perspective, the more I hate the idea of any SUNY sports program competing with SU.

[dave mcbride]

I'm as big a fan of SU as anyone but the "New York's College Team" slogan is just that - a slogan. If SUNY put a flagship football team at Binghamton or Albany, SU would be marginalized to central and western New York.

 

SU football played in NJ and the Bronx in the past year and neither game sold a lot of tickets.

 

The more I think about this, from a SU perspective, the more I hate the idea of any SUNY sports program competing with SU.

 

Syracuse is a private university. Apples and oranges.

[PearlHowardman]

Syracuse is a private university. Apples and oranges.

 

I'm talking about geography.

 

An NYSU sports program south or east of Syracuse ends the monopoly that SU has in New York State for areas south and east of Syracuse.

 

An NYSU sports program west of Syracuse will fail because it won't be able to compete with SU.

[BuffaloBill]

I think this is good, not bad for Buffalo. Only one university in the state will be named for the state - New York University. And it won't be in New York City or anywhere else. It will be in Buffalo. Seems to me like a coup for Buffalo.

 

How do you deal with the fact there already is a NYU? For this reason alone the whole concept is off. Seems to me the horse left the barn on this long ago.

 

I also think it would be a huge loss for Buffalo.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I don't understand the point of a name change. For the next 20 years, they would be repeating over and over...

 

We used to be called U Buffalo and are still in Buffalo.

 

No, we are not NYU, that's different.

 

This has to be Golisano's silliest idea ever.

 

How do you deal with the fact there already is a NYU? For this reason alone the whole concept is off. Seems to me the horse left the barn on this long ago

 

I think the proposal is for UB to be called New York State University, like Penn State University and Ohio State University, etc.

Edited April 8, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan

[zonabb]

The reason they don't have a flagship university is because the SUNY system was modeled on the UC system, which was by far and away the best public university system in the country at the time (and still is, for that matter). Unfortunately, the system came into being at a moment when NY State had just begun a long era of relative decline (the early 1960s). The Berkeley of the system was supposed to be UB, which has the only law school and for a long time had the only medical school. Unfortunately, it never came to pass, and now UB isn't even the second most selective university in the system (it falls behind Binghamton and Stonybrook). Nor did it ever evolve into a top-flight research institution. In retrospect, the state should have created a system modeled on Michigan/Michigan State, with the flagship school somewhere in the Hudson valley and the analog to MSU somewhere upstate. No use crying over spilled milk, though ...

 

You're off a few ways here:

 

1. UB doesn't have the only law school. Albany has one, and a good one.

2. Selectivity and the quality of students are not one and the same. UB continues to grow and as its capacity (supply) outweighs current demand due to a lack of visibility, acceptnace goes up. High acceptance can also be due to high quality students.

3. UB is a top flight research university. According to a 2010 ASU report, UB is a top 50 Research University, as is Stony Brook. However, it outranks Stony Brook in top academic measures; total research funding; total federal research funding; and total endowment.

 

So if you want to make an argument it's not a high quality university, try to find some metrics to back it up. The bottomline is, AAU/R1 schools are ranked on their research as much as anything and UB outperforms all SUNY schools and will continue to as the state continues to focus on its as a center of academic excellence, or as used here "flagship." It continues to climb rankings and earn a higher reputation. Sadly the academics programs suck.

 

We can argue until out fingers are typed out about whether this is a good idea but what's not up for debate is which SUNY University if the eminent one in the system.

Edited April 8, 2013 by zonabb