sodbuster Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 It's great and all that you keep siting that article. But that doesn't prove anything. For starters it's Howard's own paper, probably written by a student. So the comments in it are hearsay and biased. Second lets talk about the reality of the situation, in 1973 when Wright designed the logo he was living in Long Beach. Howard University is in Washington, DC. How the hell did Wright see this logo? He couldn't exactly come across it on the Internet. And Howard isn't exactly a power house university. Third, where are the pictures of Howard in 1974 with this logo in their helmet?
Chandler#81 Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 The Standing Bison was the ONLY WINNING logo for the team. The charging bison never won a championship! I love the old standing one. I'm with you, Phil. It's the One & Only logo for me. Absolutely classic.
8-8 Forever? Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 It is Howard University's original design... Ralph stole it from them and then was a stand-up guy and let them use it! LoL! I guess it just goes to show you that one should protect their sh*t! Which Howard didn't! Ralph and the NFL grabbed the rights. yep, Howard University in DC has been using this logo for a very very long time.
hondo in seattle Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 yep, Howard University in DC has been using this logo for a very very long time. As far as I can find on the internet, they've been using it only since 2002. Before that was an entirely different logo - though still a bison. If Ralph stole the logo from Howard, then shame on Ralph. But I can't see any evidence of that and am inclined to believe the family in California that says their dad designed the logo for Buffalo.
bowery4 Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 As far as I can find on the internet, they've been using it only since 2002. Before that was an entirely different logo - though still a bison. If Ralph stole the logo from Howard, then shame on Ralph. But I can't see any evidence of that and am inclined to believe the family in California that says their dad designed the logo for Buffalo. You do realize the internets were only around about 6-8 years in wide spread use in 2002? Why is it so hard to believe that the Bills (or this guy who died) pinched the design? I have seen this debate on here (at least I remember it as being on here, maybe it wasn't this site) before but the how far ppl will go to give this guy the benefit of a doubt because he died? That is a new one. This was even in the sports news in the 70s when it happened. Howard had the image first. Really. I remember (but no linky ) BTW the standing Bison is pretty good, they could have made it a bit more "moving" with out that stupid red scarf. What is that ****?
Numark Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 hey beerball, I'm not sure who is right in this argument I just wanted to point out that if someone uses a design that is in the public domain (and it wasn't protected), then the public is free to use it. I'm not sure the exact laws around it, but you keep implying in a sarcastic manner that a user claimed Ralph is a thief and stole it. That's not the case and no one is saying (unless I missed someone saying it haha). They are saying that the bills organization used a design in the public domain; which is legal, free, and would not make anyone a thief. Just trying to point out the other side of the argument. Again I have no idea where this design came from
purple haze Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) According to different sources, Howard adopted the charging bison logo only in 2002. Before that, according to a fan comment on another site: "They used to have a great logo, which was a blue buffalo head dressed in cavalry gear." (http://www.sportslog...logos/view/6899) My guess is that the article cited in the first place is correct and that some guy from CA designed the charging buffalo for us back in 1974. Then Howard, already nicknamed the Bisons, decided to copy the design to update their old logo. Incorrect. I graduated from Howard U. This story was always whispered about. Old timers who had been with the University for years maintained the logo originated at HU and the Bills took it. I can tell you with clarity the logo was in operation from at least the mid-80's on through my time there in the early to mid-90's. The only difference was in the 80's the logo was entirely blue. Then they changed the stripe to red by 89 or 90. And both color schemes incorporated "BISONS" on the stripe. The Bison crest with the cross swords came in the late 90's or so. Then they returned to their "original" logo with the streaking bison. Thank God. BTW, nobody at Howard treated it as a big deal that the Bills use the logo. It was just seen as a fact of the matter where it was created. Edited April 10, 2013 by purple haze
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) It's great and all that you keep siting that article. But that doesn't prove anything. For starters it's Howard's own paper, probably written by a student. So the comments in it are hearsay and biased. Second lets talk about the reality of the situation, in 1973 when Wright designed the logo he was living in Long Beach. Howard University is in Washington, DC. How the hell did Wright see this logo? He couldn't exactly come across it on the Internet. And Howard isn't exactly a power house university. Third, where are the pictures of Howard in 1974 with this logo in their helmet? Wright was a freelance artist for NFL Properties. You can trust NFL Properties all you want to do the right thing. I don't. And yes, Howard did not use this logo as their primary logo til 2002 if that is correct. EDIT: purple haze has commented on this. The thing is. It is between John Dupri and Stevens Wright. Wright's got the law and copyright on his side... He wins. Don't you find it funny that he never said (while living) where he got the inspiration from to create the logo? The family has two "theories" where he got it from and either one of those are "I got it from John Dupri, Howard art student/football player/alumnus." LoL. Agian... I am siding with the law and Ralph, NFL properties and Wright... They were oppotunistic and it is theirs! I am just a little skeptical of Wright's "Danny Partridge moment" taking songs in his sleep from Keith... If you are not old enough to get that reference, then sorry. NFL properties are hawks... They are going after the term Super Bowl whereas it now has to be called "The Big Game." They even want that, the term: The Big Game... You really think they just magically lay down and "give" it to Howard for free while charging Bucknell (of course they changed the logo, it isn't the Bills' version anymore). What's up with that? Something is rotten in Denmark and they know it... So peace exists between the Bills and Howard U. Fortunately for NFL properties, Wright took the inspiration to his grave! This only bolsters the Bills stranglehold on the logo... BUT pesky Howard University is out there. So be it. Again... I will retract my "thief" and "stolen" comments... That is really unfair to the Ralph, The NFL, Wright and his family, and all the loyal Bills fans (me included). I will continue to argue that they were opportunistic in a day and age when college licensing was non-existant. Sorry, I break toward the John Dupri side of the story. Why is NFL Propeties not crushing Howard for using it? And San Jose Bills Fan, there will never be proof... It IS solely Wright's and the NFL. I am not even going to enter the race angle how a lot of property wasn't properly protected during and especially the early half of the 20th century. I will let it go... Sorry I am hurting people's feelings... I still love the logo and pround that both Howard and The Bills can peacefully use it withOUT getting the lawyers innvolved! Apple and Google could take a cue from this. Edited April 10, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 cool story, I think the next logo should be my avatar
Beerball Posted April 10, 2013 Author Posted April 10, 2013 Some people are kind of missing the point with what was discovered here during this thread; that is Wright's family states that the logo was his pride and joy and the greatest accomplishment of his career, but...he...stole...it. ...any follow-up from the Buffalo News on that?! You're having trouble keeping up, aren't you?
hondo in seattle Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) This photo of the 1996 Howard U football team shows a very, very different logo on the helmets. #32 is Aray Williams of Howard. http://www.washingto...ry.html#photo=4 It seems the Wright family was telling the truth after all. My condolences to Stevens Wright. Edited April 10, 2013 by hondo in seattle
hondo in seattle Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 You do realize the internets were only around about 6-8 years in wide spread use in 2002? Why is it so hard to believe that the Bills (or this guy who died) pinched the design? I have seen this debate on here (at least I remember it as being on here, maybe it wasn't this site) before but the how far ppl will go to give this guy the benefit of a doubt because he died? That is a new one. This was even in the sports news in the 70s when it happened. Howard had the image first. Really. I remember (but no linky ) BTW the standing Bison is pretty good, they could have made it a bit more "moving" with out that stupid red scarf. What is that ****? Because it's not true.
Beerball Posted April 10, 2013 Author Posted April 10, 2013 This photo of the 1996 Howard U football team shows a very, very different logo on the helmets. #32 is Aray Williams of Howard. http://www.washingto...ry.html#photo=4 i posted that 3 pages ago. does no one listen to me? <edit>i guess it was 2 pages ago because 3 pages ago would be page 0</edit>
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) This photo of the 1996 Howard U football team shows a very, very different logo on the helmets. #32 is Aray Williams of Howard. http://www.washingto...ry.html#photo=4 It seems the Wright family was telling the truth after all. My condolences to Stevens Wright. That doesn't mean they did NOT have the streaking bison in their logo arsenal! There has been much dispute @ the University as to what logo to use. The streaking bison did NOT become the PRIMARY LOGO til recently! What you MAY see is the "Buffalo Soldier" logo OR the crest and swords (as per purple haze) used in 1996. FWIW, Howards used many nicknames and logos through the years... As I stated earlier... It has not been until recently that they are unified as "The Bison." Here is the quote I cited before: "There have also been disputes as to what design or logos best capture the essence of the Howard "Bison," one of the "Bison" football team's former coaches, Steve Wilson even wanted to go with the Buffalo Soldier." Steve Wilson was the former head football coach at his alma mater Howard University, from 1989 to 2001... This argument will never truly be resolved because of the items being in public domain. Incorrect. I graduated from Howard U. This story was always whispered about. Old timers who had been with the University for years maintained the logo originated at HU and the Bills took it. I can tell you with clarity the logo was in operation from at least the mid-80's on through my time there in the early to mid-90's. The only difference was in the 80's the logo was entirely blue. Then they changed the stripe to red by 89 or 90. And both color schemes incorporated "BISONS" on the stripe. The Bison crest with the cross swords came in the late 90's or so. Then they returned to their "original" logo with the streaking bison. Thank God. BTW, nobody at Howard treated it as a big deal that the Bills use the logo. It was just seen as a fact of the matter where it was created. What purple haze says! Doesn't mean the logo HAS to be used on the helmets... Unfortunately we may never find archival proof! Edited April 10, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois
hondo in seattle Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) I saw on the Howard University Athletics Facebook site that someone posted something like "We need to stop using the Buffalo Bills logo" but that doesn't prove anything either. I couldn't find a Howard Charging Bison photo prior to 2002 but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I suppose there's the possibility that Howard U and Stevens Wright both independently came up with similar logos. But they are so similar, that would be hard to believe. So for now I believe Ralph purchased a design that originated from the hand of Stevens Wright. What Wright's inspiration was, we may never know. i posted that 3 pages ago. does no one listen to me? <edit>i guess it was 2 pages ago because 3 pages ago would be page 0</edit> Sorry Beerball. Edited April 10, 2013 by hondo in seattle
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 I saw on the Howard University Athletics Facebook site that someone posted something like "We need to stop using the Buffalo Bills logo" but that doesn't prove anything either. I couldn't find a Howard Charging Bison photo prior to 2002 but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I suppose there's the possibility that Howard U and Stevens Wright both independently came up with similar logos. But they are so similar, that would be hard to believe. So for now I believe Ralph purchased a design that originated from the hand of Stevens Wright. What Wright's inspiration was, we may never know. Sorry Beerball. You make a very good point Hondo. I tend to think the design came off the hand of John Dupri (football player/art student and Howard Alumnus)... I still can't find anything on him though. I think the whole Wright thing was NFL Properties (he was a freelance with them) doing... They legaled up and knew the system and was able to take advantage of a quality design that was unprotected. I am not saying Wright had no hand in the design... He still had to draw it up. I find it strange that Wright was mum on his inspiration while living and that his family had to come up with "theories" for his inspiration... Sounds fishy to me. Look... I am not gonna play the race card... But Howard is a historically African-American university. Look how a lot of copyright issues were handled amongst the AA community in the first half of the 20th century when it came to music. Very simple, a lot was never protected and others grabbed it. No big deal because both sides get along and as people said, this was even brought up in the 1970's when BFLO first went to the streaking bison. What is flooring me is Wright's death and how they are handling this story... No mention of Howard... Oh well... Again... Sorry to sound incendiary... I didn't mean it. I do side with the John Dupri story over Wright. Somebody knows the truth and unfortunately along w/Wright, Dupri may be dead too... I like to think it was a collaboration where they both shared it. One has the legal upperhand though...
Orton's Arm Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) The only way to settle this is to find out whatever logos Howard University may have been using in the '20s - early '60s. I did some research on that question, but didn't come up with anything. I did, however, find the following. Edited April 10, 2013 by Edwards' Arm
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) Just messin witcha I am sorry too Beer! You guys keep on hammering and denying the other artist in the debate... Like they just made up his name or something. There has to be some evidence of his (Dupri's) existance as a football player/art student/alumnus... Probably hard to find online though. Denial is not just a river in Egypt... ;-) :-P The only way to settle this is to find out whatever logos Howard University may have been using in the '20s, - early '60s. I did some research on that question, but didn't come up with anything. I did, however, find the following. LoL I have been too... I think it would be easier to track down this John Dupri that Howard University claims drew up the logo... And then go from there. But it almost like his name is blank. I can't even find many images of Howard University football early on! It is almost like culturally they are off the grid! Edited April 10, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois
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