Kolb vs. Fitz???

[KeisterHollow]

I think Fitz had one terrible flaw - his arm was too weak to make half the NFL throws that would allow our offense to be unpredictable. That is really what makes every offensive system work - unpredictability. The NFL defenses are too talented, and too well prepared these days. Think about it. Gailey was - obviously to me, anyway - extremely stubburn in his play calling. So, opposing defenses only had to defend half the field, and on top of that, they knew the type of plays Buffalo would be running, and where the ball was likely to go.

 

I would bet any of the top 7 or 8 QB's coming out of college this year are better than Fitz - if only because they have more arm talent. It doesn't matter as much to have a QB who is smart, who can read defenses, if the defenses have everyone covered due to scheme and talent limitations! Any QB who can make all the throws is going to give us a better shot, IMO.

 

I don't know a lot about Kolb, but I know his arm is better than Fitz's. I also gather, from reading and listening to interviews and Bills coverage, that they have an interest in two of the college QB's with the least amount of arm talent (Nassib and Barkley), which tells me that Kolb's arm will suffice. Frankly, in the 20+ years of watching the NFL I've never been more frustrated and dismayed by a QB than I was with Fitz - the only way he can succeed is if the opposition isn't planning for him - i.e., as a backup.

[Thurmal34]

59%, 92 TD 81 INT, 14K yards

 

Fixed Fitz's stat line for you.

 

For some reason you accidentally included a team stat while posting his line. Let me know if you need any more assistance with the individual stats you post.

 

23-41

 

Not too impressive a record for a starting LG. Clearly not worth re-signing at $8M per year with those stats.

[OhIDunno]

The similarities between the two are eerie.

 

For example:

 

Both Kolb and Fitz are 4-letters long.

 

Kolb played for Arizona, Fitz lived in Arizona.

 

Fitz's nickname is "The Amish Rifle," Kolb once bought a rifle from the Amish.

 

Kolb killed a boar by stabbing it in the heart (true story) while Fitz bored the heart out of Bills' fans for the past 2 years.

 

Fitz was a 7th rd pick, Kolb once threw 7 picks in one game (may or may not be true).

 

Both men have spouses named after singing stars - Liza for Fitz, Whitney for Kolb.

 

Fitz went to Harvard, an ivy league school, as a child, Kolb had ivy growing on his school.

 

 

 

It is clear that Fitz=Kolb and Kolb=Fitz.

 

Spooky...

 

Thank you for this.... It made my night! Granted my night really wasn't worth anything anyway....

[FireChan]

This.

 

We do not have a top 10 o-line. So not this. Better, but not top 10. RF is so much tougher and mobile than Kolb it's hilarious that you guys really think he's a significant upgrade. Guy has glass bones. At least RF would get rocked and get right back up and get in the guy's face. Kolb will be signaling for the stretcher.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I think if you look at the 1st 7 games of 2011, it would be hard to argue he didn't play well

 

I'd argue there were several large red flags.

 

Eagles game he never completed a pass in the air more than 10 yards (or 12? I don't remember off hand)

 

The giants game with the ugly pick on the same throw twice

 

Cincy wasn't particularly pretty

 

Truth is he didnt play that great even during his top stretch. It wasnt a disaster but his arm was an issue even then.

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

Kolb is not the long term answer but better than Fitz. Fitz's mechanics were so bad he just could not make the tough throws. As to Kolb, his horrible line made him look terrible. I'm not saying he's our franchise QB, but he's good for 8 games while the rookie learns the game. I'm still hopeful we grab an athletic mobile type QB for the pistol with Spiller. I doubt Geno Smith falls to us at 8, so the next best is EJ Manuel.

 

Go Bills!

[ChevyVanMiller]

Thank you for this.... It made my night! Granted my night really wasn't worth anything anyway....

 

Glad to be of service.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

We do not have a top 10 o-line. So not this. Better, but not top 10. RF is so much tougher and mobile than Kolb it's hilarious that you guys really think he's a significant upgrade. Guy has glass bones. At least RF would get rocked and get right back up and get in the guy's face. Kolb will be signaling for the stretcher.

 

If you really want an intelligent take on the issue, it's interesting to read what Greg Cosell has to say about both QB previous to this year. In particular, since he's our "now", both Kolb articles are worth a careful read.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick: (August 2012)

"Fitzpatrick, who has limited arm strength, is most efficient as a distributor, operating an up-tempo passing game in which the ball comes out quickly in short-to-intermediate areas. The basketball analogy is that of a point guard who must get the ball to the team’s playmakers and let them do their thing. Every time I evaluated film of a Bills game, I found myself noting Fitzpatrick’s decisive reads and throws. He knew where to go with the ball, and he rarely hesitated when pulling the trigger. He clearly understood Gailey’s concepts, and was comfortable and composed in the pocket. (.....) Fitzpatrick has, from time to time, played at a high level over the last two years. But here’s the dose of reality that explains why Fitzpatrick has failed to develop consistency: He seems to struggle with his mechanics, especially his footwork and balance. That has produced accuracy issues; open throws are missed due to poor ball location.

 

Like Cosell/don't like Cosell I think that's a fair and accurate assessment of Fitzpatrick. It also implies the fall-off in Fitz' play may have less to do with Fitz (he always had those accuracy issues), than teams getting more tape on Gailey's offense and Gailey failing to adjust to the adjustments. Bill's O became predictable, and our WR depth didn't support the spread, esp. after Nelson went down.

 

Kevin Kolb: (article 1: July 2011) Note: this may be of interest as being based on Kolb's time with the Eagles. (Kolb is) a rhythm and timing quarterback. He’s a three-step, five-step quarterback who needs to be able to consistently plant and throw the ball. There’s always going to be an occasional orchestrated big play opportunity like the (DeSean) Jackson touchdown — where it’s play action, seven-step designed. But for the most part, he’s a (3 to 5 step - sic) quarterback who needs to step, plant and get rid of the football. When he’s not able to do that, his mechanics break down, and his arm strength is not good enough to compensate for that. (....). Ultimately, what you see is a quarterback, that when he can play within the rhythm of the offense, and where he can plant and throw, he can be a very efficient player. When his first read is there, given the route combination and the defense, he’s very, very good. But when that first read is not quite there and he’s forced to reset and look elsewhere, I think he struggles (...) He starts to lose his pocket composure. He starts to lose his footwork and (...) his downfield focus. You can tell in these types of situations that he’s not getting a clear picture when he has to reset. So, I think, overall, that’s Kolb at this point (in his career).

 

(article 2: April 2013) Intro: Can Kevin Kolb fare any better in Buffalo than he did in either Arizona or Philadelphia? Often injured and poorly protected by a horrible offensive line, Kolb started only 14 games with the Cards — and was terrible. Cosell's take: “I think Kolb always has been a couple of things.(...) the reason he’s never really reached the second-round-pick level. One, I think he has limited arm strength. He does not have a poor arm, but I think that he does not have a big arm. And two, I think he’s always struggled in a muddied pocket. He has a very difficult time when there are bodies around him, which was GREATLY exacerbated in Arizona (...) Now, he does have that problem — and there will always be plays in which that’s an issue. But hopefully in Buffalo they can control that better (...) Arizona was so bad along the offensive line, he couldn’t function. Kolb is a timing/rhythm functional space player. And I’m sure the Bills’ feeling is: ‘We’ve got a run game. We have two good backs, and one of them is truly dynamic in (C.J.) Spiller. We need to do a little better with our receiving corps but you can always draft receivers. Our O-line is pretty good, so we can at least make him an efficient player. He’ll never be a great player. But we can make him an efficient player.’ (...)Theoretically what you’re trying to do is make Kevin Kolb Alex Smith. While that’s not necessarily great, as we know, it’s efficient. “The last thing a new head coach wants is the quarterback to bring down the entire team. Because then you can’t even compete. So even though they understand that Kevin Kolb is not a great player, just like Andy Reid understands that Alex Smith is not a great player, at least now they can build a team and the quarterback will not ruin what you are trying to put together.”

 

Now interpretations of the above will vary, but as I see it, it all hinges on whether we do indeed have a significantly better OL than we did in 2010. Because in 2010, what Gailey saw in the 1st 2 games, was that our OL could not sustain a 3-5 step drop, pocket passer who gets flustered when his 1st read doesn't work out and who struggled to recognize and call protections (Edwards). So Gailey put us in the shotgun and designed a quick release O that our OL could sustain.

 

Since 2010, our OL has improved with replacement of Bell, Hangartner, and Wrotto with Hairston/Glenn, Wood/Urbik, and Pears. But we've lost Levitre and his backup, and I still see a significant drop-off when Wood isn't in there at center even with Fitz able to recognize and call the right protections.

 

So it's a question mark in my mind. If our OL plays well, I'm hopeful that Cosell's analysis is correct: we'll acquire a couple good WR through draft and FA, and Kolb will be able to make efficient use of his better arm and throwing mechanics. But if our OL doesn't play well and/or our WR don't shake out well for a timing offense, there might be no need for us to try to suck, it might just happen naturally because Kolb is likely to be less able to make the most out of his OL, adapt/improvise and make plays with his feet than Fitz was. The Cards OL was terrible, and per Cosell, it played to Kolb's weakness; a different OC/coach could likely have masked it.

 

It would not shock me to see Kolb start the 1st 2-3 games then be replaced by TJax or a rookie, even if he stays healthy.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Hopeful

[NoSaint]

Spillers ability to keep the pocket clean and be a release valve in the passing game will be key to this years success, with any qb

[Nanker]

The similarities between the two are eerie.

 

For example:

 

Both Kolb and Fitz are 4-letters long.

 

Kolb played for Arizona, Fitz lived in Arizona.

 

Fitz's nickname is "The Amish Rifle," Kolb once bought a rifle from the Amish.

 

Kolb killed a boar by stabbing it in the heart (true story) while Fitz bored the heart out of Bills' fans for the past 2 years.

 

Fitz was a 7th rd pick, Kolb once threw 7 picks in one game (may or may not be true).

 

Both men have spouses named after singing stars - Liza for Fitz, Whitney for Kolb.

 

Fitz went to Harvard, an ivy league school, as a child, Kolb had ivy growing on his school.

 

 

 

It is clear that Fitz=Kolb and Kolb=Fitz.

 

Spooky...

What's more, they even look exactly alike!

[swnybillsfan]

What's more, they even look exactly alike!

yeah. they look exactly the same, just different in the face.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

What's more, they even look exactly alike!

 

It's sometimes hard to tell white people apart.

[ganesh]

Did they just replace the same guy with a cheaper option??? I think all they have done is replace a guy who had a limited ceiling with a guy we hope was limited more by Arizona's offensive line than his own abilitities... Flame away at my loyalty to Fitz. I will hope Kolb does well and I would honeslty rather have him than Flynn, Alex Smith, or even Caron Palmer.

 

This. Also, I think they wanted a change in the locker room mentality. The Bills have been too laid back and bringing an outside competition may be a good thing. Fitz had reached his ceiling as a starting QB, Kolb hasn't yet (but getting close)!

 

Spillers ability to keep the pocket clean and be a release valve in the passing game will be key to this years success, with any qb

and an improvement in his (Spiller) ability to pick up the Blitz would give the QB time to throw the ball deep.

[FireChan]

Spillers ability to keep the pocket clean and be a release valve in the passing game will be key to this years success, with any qb

 

The checkdown pass has been the go to play for the last 5 years. How'd that work out with "any QB?"

[12Kachy]

I hated Fitzmoney from the beginning of his time here in buffalo. He wasn't really good before the Bills signed him, had 5 good games, then bamo, the FO signs him to a terrible contract. Then for the next season and half he returned to normal. Interception city. You look at Graham, the guy is fast, but Fitz couldn't get the ball to him. It was like everyone was playing football and Fitz thought he was throwing clay pigeons at his shooting club. "Fitz goes deep to a wide open Johnson, the ball is still floating, floating, floating, floating, floating picked off". I was just waiting for Elmer Fud to come out shooting. Who knows with Kolb, at least two other teams thought he was Starting caliber. Fitz was only considered a starter by the Bills.

[NoSaint]

 

 

The checkdown pass has been the go to play for the last 5 years. How'd that work out with "any QB?"

 

Again, his ability to keep the pocket clean (ie pickup blitzes reliably so a qb can trust their internal clocks and reads) and his ability from there to be a reliable dump off if nothing is open (so when the qb does use that internal clock he knows he has an option he can always rely on for a positive play) will be huge for any qb but especially a journeyman trying to regain confidence or a rookie trying to learn.

 

I very much don't mean that we should have 30 checkdowns a game.

[Dorkington]

If you really want an intelligent take on the issue, it's interesting to read what Greg Cosell has to say about both QB previous to this year. In particular, since he's our "now", both Kolb articles are worth a careful read.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick: (August 2012)

"Fitzpatrick, who has limited arm strength, is most efficient as a distributor, operating an up-tempo passing game in which the ball comes out quickly in short-to-intermediate areas. The basketball analogy is that of a point guard who must get the ball to the team’s playmakers and let them do their thing. Every time I evaluated film of a Bills game, I found myself noting Fitzpatrick’s decisive reads and throws. He knew where to go with the ball, and he rarely hesitated when pulling the trigger. He clearly understood Gailey’s concepts, and was comfortable and composed in the pocket. (.....) Fitzpatrick has, from time to time, played at a high level over the last two years. But here’s the dose of reality that explains why Fitzpatrick has failed to develop consistency: He seems to struggle with his mechanics, especially his footwork and balance. That has produced accuracy issues; open throws are missed due to poor ball location.

 

Like Cosell/don't like Cosell I think that's a fair and accurate assessment of Fitzpatrick. It also implies the fall-off in Fitz' play may have less to do with Fitz (he always had those accuracy issues), than teams getting more tape on Gailey's offense and Gailey failing to adjust to the adjustments. Bill's O became predictable, and our WR depth didn't support the spread, esp. after Nelson went down.

 

Kevin Kolb: (article 1: July 2011) Note: this may be of interest as being based on Kolb's time with the Eagles. (Kolb is) a rhythm and timing quarterback. He’s a three-step, five-step quarterback who needs to be able to consistently plant and throw the ball. There’s always going to be an occasional orchestrated big play opportunity like the (DeSean) Jackson touchdown — where it’s play action, seven-step designed. But for the most part, he’s a (3 to 5 step - sic) quarterback who needs to step, plant and get rid of the football. When he’s not able to do that, his mechanics break down, and his arm strength is not good enough to compensate for that. (....). Ultimately, what you see is a quarterback, that when he can play within the rhythm of the offense, and where he can plant and throw, he can be a very efficient player. When his first read is there, given the route combination and the defense, he’s very, very good. But when that first read is not quite there and he’s forced to reset and look elsewhere, I think he struggles (...) He starts to lose his pocket composure. He starts to lose his footwork and (...) his downfield focus. You can tell in these types of situations that he’s not getting a clear picture when he has to reset. So, I think, overall, that’s Kolb at this point (in his career).

 

(article 2: April 2013) Intro: Can Kevin Kolb fare any better in Buffalo than he did in either Arizona or Philadelphia? Often injured and poorly protected by a horrible offensive line, Kolb started only 14 games with the Cards — and was terrible. Cosell's take: “I think Kolb always has been a couple of things.(...) the reason he’s never really reached the second-round-pick level. One, I think he has limited arm strength. He does not have a poor arm, but I think that he does not have a big arm. And two, I think he’s always struggled in a muddied pocket. He has a very difficult time when there are bodies around him, which was GREATLY exacerbated in Arizona (...) Now, he does have that problem — and there will always be plays in which that’s an issue. But hopefully in Buffalo they can control that better (...) Arizona was so bad along the offensive line, he couldn’t function. Kolb is a timing/rhythm functional space player. And I’m sure the Bills’ feeling is: ‘We’ve got a run game. We have two good backs, and one of them is truly dynamic in (C.J.) Spiller. We need to do a little better with our receiving corps but you can always draft receivers. Our O-line is pretty good, so we can at least make him an efficient player. He’ll never be a great player. But we can make him an efficient player.’ (...)Theoretically what you’re trying to do is make Kevin Kolb Alex Smith. While that’s not necessarily great, as we know, it’s efficient. “The last thing a new head coach wants is the quarterback to bring down the entire team. Because then you can’t even compete. So even though they understand that Kevin Kolb is not a great player, just like Andy Reid understands that Alex Smith is not a great player, at least now they can build a team and the quarterback will not ruin what you are trying to put together.”

 

Now interpretations of the above will vary, but as I see it, it all hinges on whether we do indeed have a significantly better OL than we did in 2010. Because in 2010, what Gailey saw in the 1st 2 games, was that our OL could not sustain a 3-5 step drop, pocket passer who gets flustered when his 1st read doesn't work out and who struggled to recognize and call protections (Edwards). So Gailey put us in the shotgun and designed a quick release O that our OL could sustain.

 

Since 2010, our OL has improved with replacement of Bell, Hangartner, and Wrotto with Hairston/Glenn, Wood/Urbik, and Pears. But we've lost Levitre and his backup, and I still see a significant drop-off when Wood isn't in there at center even with Fitz able to recognize and call the right protections.

 

So it's a question mark in my mind. If our OL plays well, I'm hopeful that Cosell's analysis is correct: we'll acquire a couple good WR through draft and FA, and Kolb will be able to make efficient use of his better arm and throwing mechanics. But if our OL doesn't play well and/or our WR don't shake out well for a timing offense, there might be no need for us to try to suck, it might just happen naturally because Kolb is likely to be less able to make the most out of his OL, adapt/improvise and make plays with his feet than Fitz was. The Cards OL was terrible, and per Cosell, it played to Kolb's weakness; a different OC/coach could likely have masked it.

 

It would not shock me to see Kolb start the 1st 2-3 games then be replaced by TJax or a rookie, even if he stays healthy.

 

Loved reading this. Thanks.

[C.Biscuit97]

Let's be honest. Fitz was extremely limited physically but he got every ounce out of his ability. Kolb was thought of higher and is a more naturally gifted QB. But at this point, Fitz has had the much, much better NFL career. IT's not even a discussion unless you are just a Fitz hater.

 

We needed a change and I hope for the best with Kolb. But I really want to draft a Qb who is going to be a franchise guy because I'm pretty sure it's not Kolb.

[Gugny]

Let's be honest. Fitz was extremely limited physically but he got every ounce out of his ability. Kolb was thought of higher and is a more naturally gifted QB. But at this point, Fitz has had the much, much better NFL career. IT's not even a discussion unless you are just a Fitz hater.

 

We needed a change and I hope for the best with Kolb. But I really want to draft a Qb who is going to be a franchise guy because I'm pretty sure it's not Kolb.

This is 100% how I feel about Fitz and Kolb.

[FireChan]

Again, his ability to keep the pocket clean (ie pickup blitzes reliably so a qb can trust their internal clocks and reads) and his ability from there to be a reliable dump off if nothing is open (so when the qb does use that internal clock he knows he has an option he can always rely on for a positive play) will be huge for any qb but especially a journeyman trying to regain confidence or a rookie trying to learn.

 

I very much don't mean that we should have 30 checkdowns a game.

 

If we don't get some good WR's, we might have to. Spiller did improve his blocking late last year, which is one of the few positives. I don't know how good Kolb's internal clock and timing is, because after 2 seconds, he's usually on his back.