North Carolina...Hate Queers...Love God.

[DC Tom]

You don't know NC well. My own County has "In God We Trust" across the top of the building.

 

And your country has "In God We Trust" on its money.

 

If you try to make an argument for your county's religious backwardness by pointing out the county building has a federal religious slogan on it, in a thread you started to point out that your state is rejecting federal authority, I will destroy you. THAT particular level of logical inconsistency is a light snack for me.

 

Church

• A building used for public Christian worship.
   
  
• A particular Christian organization, typically one with its own clergy, buildings, and distinctive doctrines: "the Church of England".
  

It creates a church, if only for a few seconds.

 

That doesn't make a building a church any more than putting your logo on my front door would make me a farmer. A certain activity, in either case (farming, or "public Christian worship") has to be performed.

 

Now, if your county courts open cases with a prayer, then you'd have a point...

[Chef Jim]

 

 

I am fine with the word God. I am fine with it being posted on the dollar, and such - but when it is used as a tool of propaganda I am not fine. Do not throw it on the building only to brag that this county still has morals and believes like our forefathers believed, that it was a national built on God, blablabla..

 

 

In God we Trust on a government building is a tool of propaganda? Yikes. You've watched too many movies.

[B-Large]

 

 

Sure it can. But do you honestly care? And can you make an argument that it's either aiding religion, setting up a church, or forcing or influencing anyone to go to a church against their will?

 

Then why is it there?? And no, I don't really care..

[OCinBuffalo]

I agree with your sentiment, too many sue over the simplest of things, no doubt about it. However, it is about more then that. It is the recognition of the state of the church, which I am pretty sure should be kept seperate. I am fine with elected officials being religious on their own terms in their own ways but it should not be brought in to government. Beliefs are one thing, because so many basic values are echoed in religious belief, however not all are and often times those issues are part of the fabric that is ripped, resewn and redrawn across this country - abortion, gay rights, blacks and whites, drinking, etc. The Church can back a canidate, the canidate can back a church, but the government has absolutely no business backing a church.

 

Bleh, if only I was not just a cow turd sniffin yokal I would be able to express myself much better. Good grief.

But, isn't the intent of this: to prevent the Federal government from determining what is backing a church and what isn't? Isn't that he spirit of the law, in terms of the Constitution, AS WELL AS the letter?

 

How about we just cut to the chase: this is about Obamacare, and declaring the forced insurance for employees of religion-affiliated organizations, for abortion, birth control, etc. unconstitutional.

 

NC, the state, once it passes this law, now has "standing"(legal term that determines who can sue and who can't), and therefore its AG can sue the Obama HHS people, because their regulation contradicts NC law. The state court cannot resolve this issue.

 

So, it goes to Federal court, and the hope, I am sure, is that it ends up at the SCOTUS, where a resounding 5-4 victory causes the law to fail(as if the Obama administration isn't already doing a fine job of that all by itself)

 

So really, this is about chopping out of significant portion of Obamacare, by making it unconstitutional, due to trampling on legal protections granted to all religion-affiliated groups in NC.

 

Thus, 2 things are true:

1. This has literally nothing to do with morality, "in God we trust", backward hicks, or whatever else.

2. This is only happening because Obamacare = idiocy, and, the designers of Obamacare = idiots. This lawsuit would not be possible, and, and the rest of this rigamarole would be unnecessary, had the designers of Obamacare not overreached, and ALSO screwed up the legal language so horribly.

Why does it have to that??? Can't it simply say nothing???

Well if this was California, it should say: "Eat at the In-n-Out Burger", or "Shop at Ralph's" or "Windows 8"...because those bastards need money....quick.

It should say "in cesar romero we trust."

The Joker? Or, did you mean...Cesar Chavez...since Easter is now Cesar Chavez Day? Or, did you mean Geroge A Romero, the horror film guy, along the lines of that annoying "zombie Jesus day" that a poster I will not name(because I won't give him the attention) keeps trying to start?

It creates a church, if only for a few seconds.

My religion says that's not true, so, by saying that it does, you are forcing your religious beliefs on me.

 

I should get a lawyer and sue you. Or, as a settlement, I will take: 100 naked youtube pushups, or, you must put "OCinBuffalo is a narcissist, but he is the best at it." in your signature for at least 30 days.

Edited April 4, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[dayman]

But, isn't the intent of this: to prevent the Federal government from determining what is backing a church and what isn't? Isn't that he spirit of the law, in terms of the Constitution, AS WELL AS the letter?

 

How about we just cut to the chase: this is about Obamacare, and declaring the forced insurance for employees of religion-affiliated organizations, for abortion, birth control, etc. unconstitutional.

 

NC, the state, once it passes this law, now has "standing"(legal term that determines who can sue and who can't), and therefore its AG can sue the Obama HHS people, because their regulation contradicts NC law. The state court cannot resolve this issue.

 

So, it goes to Federal court, and the hope, I am sure, is that it ends up at the SCOTUS, where a resounding 5-4 victory causes the law to fail(as if the Obama administration isn't already doing a fine job of that all by itself)

 

So really, this is about chopping out of significant portion of Obamacare, by making it unconstitutional, due to trampling on legal protections granted to all religion-affiliated groups in NC.

 

Thus, 2 things are true:

1. This has literally nothing to do with morality, "in God we trust", backward hicks, or whatever else.

2. This is only happening because Obamacare = idiocy, and, the designers of Obamacare = idiots. This lawsuit would not be possible, and, and the rest of this rigamarole would be unnecessary, had the designers of Obamacare not overreached, and ALSO screwed up the legal language so horribly

 

 

 

........

[truth on hold]

Civil War II

[Jim in Anchorage]

Why did you decide to title this hate queers love God?

[3rdnlng]

Does the Constitution protect the government from religion or religion from the government?

Edited April 4, 2013 by 3rdnlng

[boyst]

On phone so deal with replies

 

Nc banned nearly any type of civil union and defined marriage as a man and woman because of homophobia.

 

It is not federal authority I am worried about it is respect of that authority and disrespect of those who create it. The people. We elected these folks to represent us and they are going to bother in a silly fuss about someone requesting there to be no prayers before meetings. The simple, cheap and no fuss solution is a simple moment of silence. the dollar is more a tradition and still it is silly to me. Fighting to remove it os not worth the process it'd take for the gov to just simply remove it.

 

And I get what you're saying- farm sign on door. But im not sure o fully agree. Will have to think about it. Destroy me if you must.

 

 

The state legs are using it as propaganda. That's about the best way to say it Jimbo.

 

And I think nc should, like all states make its own rules. ... shaped by theconstition

[RkFast]

It should say "in cesar romero we trust."

What the !@#$ does a comedy guy from the 50s have to do with this?

[meazza]

What the !@#$ does a comedy guy from the 50s have to do with this?

 

http://http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/156948-its-not-easter-its-cesar-chavezs-birthday/page__st__20?do=findComment&comment=2770055

[OCinBuffalo]

On phone so deal with replies

 

Nc banned nearly any type of civil union and defined marriage as a man and woman because of homophobia.

 

It is not federal authority I am worried about it is respect of that authority and disrespect of those who create it. The people. We elected these folks to represent us and they are going to bother in a silly fuss about someone requesting there to be no prayers before meetings. The simple, cheap and no fuss solution is a simple moment of silence. the dollar is more a tradition and still it is silly to me. Fighting to remove it os not worth the process it'd take for the gov to just simply remove it.

 

And I get what you're saying- farm sign on door. But im not sure o fully agree. Will have to think about it. Destroy me if you must.

 

 

The state legs are using it as propaganda. That's about the best way to say it Jimbo.

 

And I think nc should, like all states make its own rules. ... shaped by theconstition

You said destroy you. Ok. No problem.

 

I made it plain for you...and you still don't see it?

 

This has nothing to do with all the things you've posted in this thread.

 

This has everything to do with setting up a legal challenge to Obamacare's ambiguous and dopey legal language, that allows the political appointees at HHS to require that a relgion-based employer, and especially a religion-based health care provider, provide insurance to its employees that MUST include contraception and abortion services/drugs.

 

What's it going to take for you to see the real deal here?

 

The NC Republicans probably have some pretty good lawyers in their ranks, and they've spotted a legal weakness. These lawyers are setting up the language in the bill they've created, that is tailor made for their lawsuit, such that it will present a real problem for the SCOTUS, so that they will have to agree to hear the case.

 

That's the key: the SCOTUS decides what it will hear and what it won't. It is the only court that works this way. They can decide to ignore the case, but, not if the NC law's language compels them to take the case. The thinking being: if they don't, chaos will ensue.

 

So your legislators don't care if this appears chaotic(start Civil War 2, whatever ) to you. Frankly, you couldn't matter less in this process. Chaos is precisely what they are going for, because the right amount of it, presented the right way, will force SCOTUS's hand. They will have to take the case, and rule on it, and the NC legislators believe that this is a case that they can win...or they wouldn't bother. The secondary, political, objective: re-litigate Obamacare, again, in the public eye, so that even more support is eroded from it.

 

Get it?

[boyst]

You said destroy you. Ok. No problem.

 

I made it plain for you...and you still don't see it?

 

This has nothing to do with all the things you've posted in this thread.

 

This has everything to do with setting up a legal challenge to Obamacare's ambiguous and dopey legal language, that allows the political appointees at HHS to require that a relgion-based employer, and especially a religion-based health care provider, provide insurance to its employees that MUST include contraception and abortion services/drugs.

 

What's it going to take for you to see the real deal here?

 

The NC Republicans probably have some pretty good lawyers in their ranks, and they've spotted a legal weakness. These lawyers are setting up the language in the bill they've created, that is tailor made for their lawsuit, such that it will present a real problem for the SCOTUS, so that they will have to agree to hear the case.

 

That's the key: the SCOTUS decides what it will hear and what it won't. It is the only court that works this way. They can decide to ignore the case, but, not if the NC law's language compels them to take the case. The thinking being: if they don't, chaos will ensue.

 

So your legislators don't care if this appears chaotic(start Civil War 2, whatever ) to you. Frankly, you couldn't matter less in this process. Chaos is precisely what they are going for, because the right amount of it, presented the right way, will force SCOTUS's hand. They will have to take the case, and rule on it, and the NC legislators believe that this is a case that they can win...or they wouldn't bother. The secondary, political, objective: re-litigate Obamacare, again, in the public eye, so that even more support is eroded from it.

 

Get it?

I understand what you are saying, just not sure I can follow it. Sure, it sounds good, but to get the idea that a few small hick counties in the state had leaders present bills to fight this battle against Obama... that's far fetched Hollywood stuff. I would like to beleive you but cannot, especially with Roy Cooper as the Att. General of this state. The guy is a powerful figure who will one day be the Governor of this state, he is respected on both sides of the aisle and would be committing career suicide challenging Obama Care.

[OCinBuffalo]

I understand what you are saying, just not sure I can follow it. Sure, it sounds good, but to get the idea that a few small hick counties in the state had leaders present bills to fight this battle against Obama... that's far fetched Hollywood stuff. I would like to beleive you but cannot, especially with Roy Cooper as the Att. General of this state. The guy is a powerful figure who will one day be the Governor of this state, he is respected on both sides of the aisle and would be committing career suicide challenging Obama Care.

 

1. It's not about the hick counties or their leaders. It's about the heavy hitter Republican lawyer from Charlotte who handed the leaders of the hick counties their speeches, position papers, and talking points on this subject, and them, repeating it all, verbatim, as ordered by the state party chair.

 

So, no, it's not Hollywood at all. It's pretty much how any state party operates.

 

The Charlotte lawyer was hired by the state party chair, and, the hick counties and their leaders were used, because they are electorally safe. Those hick county leaders could say they want to hang every gay person in the state...and they would still be re-elected. So, they can easily "sponsor" these laws in the legislature as they have nothing to lose, and may even gain support from their hick constituents.

 

No. If this had come from the suburbs of Charlotte, then somebody would be risking something. That it comes from the hick counties proves my point.

 

3. The AG has no choice in the matter. If NC passes a law, and the Federal Government creates a regulation that contradicts it, he is duty-bound to sue as he is the attorney for his state. It is his responsibility...by law. Not to mention the fact that this duty gives him perfect political cover. He represents the law of NC as it is written, and as such, he must go after anyone or in this case, anything, that breaks that law. You cannot criticize him for doing: his job

 

4. The fact that the AG is powerful and well respected, gonna be governor someday? Yeah...that only means that: instead of this being the state party chair's idea...it's probably Roy Cooper's idea.

 

Consider: the best thing a politician can do is have people watch him do his job, and suceed at it, on TV. If you say you, and most people, already KNOW he's gonna be a governor, then it's almost a lock that Cooper thinks: why not Senator/President? Thus, why not be the guy who gets NATIONAL attention, rather than just state-wide? I don't know who Roy Cooper is, but, if he proceeds and succeeds with this lawsuit, all of us will.

 

Nothing says national attention like being the guy who won the SCOTUS case that took down Obamacare. Cooper would start at least $2 million ahead in IA...and he'd carry that right through to NH. Certainly he'd never have a problem raising money in a NC race...as it would be coming from all over the country.

 

He might even lose the case, but if gets job #2 done: expose Obamacare as the douchebaggery it is, and shift even more public opinion nation-wide, he is guaranteed out-of-state money...for life. He also would get a seat at the National Republican Table...for life.

 

 

Starting to see why this has nothing to do with what is written on your county courthouse? You think Roy Cooper gives a schit about that?

Edited April 4, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[dayman]

This is turning into an episode of House of Cards.

[OCinBuffalo]

This is turning into an episode of House of Cards.

Oh it gets worse:

 

Consider: The real objective? Cooper et al may just want to be governor sooner, rather than later. And/or he may want to consolidate and increase his reach before he runs. As in, the NC Democrats, as a favor to the DNC, get Cooper to lay off/drag his feet on this lawsuit. In return for removing a 2014 threat to the DNC...the DNC tells the local Ds to make it easy on Cooper, and he runs against token opposition.

 

But, the only way that works: the lawsuit has to be a significant threat, and one that can return at any time, if the Ds don't hold up their end.

 

Either way, Cooper, if that's who's doing this, has deftly positioned himself into a win/win, for him. Indeed, we may all end up knowing who Roy Cooper is very soon, if he really is this good.

 

Or, I could be giving credit to the wrong guy. One thing I am sure about: this is a state party move designed to go after Obamacare. What they do with it? Who knows?

[boyst]

Oh it gets worse:

 

Consider: The real objective? Cooper et al may just want to be governor sooner, rather than later. And/or he may want to consolidate and increase his reach before he runs. As in, the NC Democrats, as a favor to the DNC, get Cooper to lay off/drag his feet on this lawsuit. In return for removing a 2014 threat to the DNC...the DNC tells the local Ds to make it easy on Cooper, and he runs against token opposition.

 

But, the only way that works: the lawsuit has to be a significant threat, and one that can return at any time, if the Ds don't hold up their end.

 

Either way, Cooper, if that's who's doing this, has deftly positioned himself into a win/win, for him. Indeed, we may all end up knowing who Roy Cooper is very soon, if he really is this good.

 

Or, I could be giving credit to the wrong guy. One thing I am sure about: this is a state party move designed to go after Obamacare. What they do with it? Who knows?

Cooper is a Democrat...

[3rdnlng]

Cooper is a Democrat...

 

If OC is even 50% right, this is even funnier.

[boyst]

If OC is even 50% right, this is even funnier.

It was kind of funny to see how he took it, I loosely mentioned him being a Democrat...

[3rdnlng]

It was kind of funny to see how he took it, I loosely mentioned him being a Democrat...

 

So Mr. Cattle Rancher, should we call this the steers and queers thread?