swnybillsfan Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 And damn if that doesn't describe Ryan Fitzpatrick. Terrifically frustrating. Not saying his flaws aren't correctable, but that is cause for concern and certainly reason to shy away from him at #8. well, if he is comparable in attitude and heart, with a bit stronger arm then i'm willing to gamble that with help from the get-go he could be a good one. i've said plenty of times that i love fitz as a person and that he plays the position the way i want my quarterback to play it. but there were so many times that it was apparent that the ability just was not there to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeisterHollow Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I think you bring up an important point. Are his flaws coachable/correctable? Who better to asses his potential than the coaches who have already worked with him for 4 years? If they decide not to draft him, I think that says alot. If they do draft him, I have confidence the coaches know exactly what they are getting and believe he has the capability to live up to his potential. Every qb ever drafted have been drafted based on potential. Some live up to it, most dont. I just hope, like the rest of Bills nation, that we find that franchise qb soon. I dont care who it is, and dont feel like I have the knowledge to make a proclamation on who is the guy to draft this year or any other. The one serious benefit of drafting Nassib is the 4 year relationship established between him and the coach. Nassib knows exactly what Marone wants in any given situation, and Marone knows what he can get out of Nassib in any given situation. This puts him light years ahead in the developmental process of a rookie qb. I think if he is drafted, we will find out immediately if he is an NFL qb. Immediately, as in he wont start for 3 years like JP Lossman if it doesnt click. So the Bills could move on to the next option. You make a good point - Marrone was coming from the NFL when he coached Syracuse. Hackett had NFL ties. I believe Nassib improved every year at Syracuse. My assessment of him is just about exactly where that article - on page 60 of this thread - put him; capable, sometimes excellent, with great intangibles, but also often times looking inaccurate and sloppy. I wonder, if Nassib did improve every year with Marrone, can we expect him to continue to improve? It seems to me that since Marrone came from New Orleans, he must have been using NFL caliber coaching. Is it smart to expect him to continue to improve, or should we expect to get what we see? I would imagine the answer to that question is what determines if he's a target of Buffalo early, or if he falls into the later 1st, early to mid 2nd round range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 If Marrone drafts him in the first he'll be fired in 3 years unless the kid does something nobody but Marrone thinks he can do. Also, Marrone probably knows this. So...it's unlikely and if he does we know he believes in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Nassib's are is plenty strong. Having a weak arm is one of the false criticisms of him. But I remain unconvinced about the player as a whole. One evaluator who I have a high regard for is Greg Cosell (nephew of Howard Cosell) from NFL Films. He ranks Nassib at the top of the class. Cosell has little regard for Barkley due to his lack of arm strength. He diminishes Geno Smith because he believes that he is too slow in making defensive reads. Cossel also believes that Glennon has a high upside. Because there are so many conflicting evaluations of this qb crop I have less than a firm view as to who is the best qb for us. What I do strongly believe is that there are very good prospects in this draft class and that it would be a miscalculation if we don't draft a qb in the first or second round. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000152748/article/ryan-nassib-is-top-qb-in-nfl-draft-greg-cosell-says The following is an example of the various qb opinions. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000154944/article/2013-nfl-draft-who-will-be-the-second-quarterback-taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Simple, really. He's not Andrew Luck,and he did not play for Alabama last year, so he sucks. Wow, if that's it then I'm really thick-headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Is the game tape you're referring to the 5 YouTube game cut ups from his 2012 season? You know he had 3 years worth of games right? No, from watching as many actual games as I could catch of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 One evaluator who I have a high regard for is Greg Cosell (nephew of Howard Cosell) from NFL Films. He ranks Nassib at the top of the class. Cosell has little regard for Barkley due to his lack of arm strength. He diminishes Geno Smith because he believes that he is too slow in making defensive reads. Cossel also believes that Glennon has a high upside. Because there are so many conflicting evaluations of this qb crop I have less than a firm view as to who is the best qb for us. What I do strongly believe is that there are very good prospects in this draft class and that it would be a miscalculation if we don't draft a qb in the first or second round. http://www.nfl.com/n...reg-cosell-says The following is an example of the various qb opinions. http://www.nfl.com/n...arterback-taken It does seem the QB opinions are all over the place...Personally I've done more reading about, and watching of QB's this past year than I ever have leading up to a Draft...It's actually been fun, and bit challenging because each of the top 7 QB's in this Draft (Smith, Manuel, Barkley, Nassib, Bray, Glennon, and Scott) has something that will lead you to believe that in the right system they could be very good...Equally...they all each have flaws, or questions, that lead you to believe in the wrong system they could fall flat... Through this process I've tried to keep an open mind because I realize that one of those 7 will likely be the Buffalo Bills QB of the future, and it very well may not be the guy I like best...And with this bunch I can honestly say that I could get behind each of them individually if that's the Bills guy...at least until they proved they could not do it in the NFL... All that being said...I like EJ Manual the best, followed closely by Geno Smith...After that in order I like Nassib, Scott, Barkley, Bray, then Glennon...The Bills HAVE to get one of these 7 though...Or I'm looking for a good bridge with adequate height... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 It does seem the QB opinions are all over the place...Personally I've done more reading about, and watching of QB's this past year than I ever have leading up to a Draft...It's actually been fun, and bit challenging because each of the top 7 QB's in this Draft (Smith, Manuel, Barkley, Nassib, Bray, Glennon, and Scott) has something that will lead you to believe that in the right system they could be very good...Equally...they all each have flaws, or questions, that lead you to believe in the wrong system they could fall flat... Through this process I've tried to keep an open mind because I realize that one of those 7 will likely be the Buffalo Bills QB of the future, and it very well may not be the guy I like best...And with this bunch I can honestly say that I could get behind each of them individually if that's the Bills guy...at least until they proved they could not do it in the NFL... All that being said...I like EJ Manual the best, followed closely by Geno Smith...After that in order I like Nassib, Scott, Barkley, Bray, then Glennon...The Bills HAVE to get one of these 7 though...Or I'm looking for a good bridge with adequate height... I would put Wilson in that mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I would put Wilson in that mix. You're right...Probably 8...But I'm personally not a big Wilson guy...Though I would certainly not put him far behind the others... Charles Davis likes Wilson better than Nassib...And I respect Charles Davis' opinion...He was the only guy I heard say before the 2011 Draft that Kaepernick would be the best QB of that class in a couple years...But even Davis said Wilson would be a potential starter and a very good back-up...Which I guess says more about how Davis rates Nassib than anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 If Marrone drafts him in the first he'll be fired in 3 years unless the kid does something nobody but Marrone thinks he can do. Also, Marrone probably knows this. So...it's unlikely and if he does we know he believes in him. It would seem to be an absolute steel cojones pick to take Nassib at #8. Marrone would go down as a freaking genius or go down as a total nitwit who doused his career in gasoline and played with a Bic lighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 It would seem to be an absolute steel cojones pick to take Nassib at #8. Marrone would go down as a freaking genius or go down as a total nitwit who doused his career in gasoline and played with a Bic lighter. No genius, Marrone has an inside track, Ryan Nassib is a good QB that already knows the Offense, he's familiar with the coaching staff, and them with him It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why the Bills in all likelyhood will draft Nassib Marrone and co. will look like total nitwits If they let Nassib slip through their fingers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) No genius, Marrone has an inside track, Ryan Nassib is a good QB that already knows the Offense, he's familiar with the coaching staff, and them with him It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why the Bills in all likelyhood will draft Nassib Marrone and co. will look like total nitwits If they let Nassib slip through their fingers... But what if Marrone & Co. have assessed that Nassib does not have a chance to become an elite QB? Logically there is more chance that Nassib does not have that elite potential in him......and since Marrone knows him the best, he theoretically should know it......therefore it does not take a rocket surgeon to understand why the Bills in all likelihood will not draft Nassib. That being said......if Nassib does have that potential then I hope we do select him at #8. Edited April 10, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 One evaluator who I have a high regard for is Greg Cosell (nephew of Howard Cosell) from NFL Films. He ranks Nassib at the top of the class. Cosell has little regard for Barkley due to his lack of arm strength. He diminishes Geno Smith because he believes that he is too slow in making defensive reads. Cossel also believes that Glennon has a high upside. Because there are so many conflicting evaluations of this qb crop I have less than a firm view as to who is the best qb for us. What I do strongly believe is that there are very good prospects in this draft class and that it would be a miscalculation if we don't draft a qb in the first or second round. http://www.nfl.com/n...reg-cosell-says The following is an example of the various qb opinions. http://www.nfl.com/n...arterback-taken That wimpy arm tore the hell out of Marrone`s team . Nassibs deep ball is not in Barkleys league. Nassib has a gun on short passes. Horrible soft floating Balloon passes deep . Watch Nassib against Rutgers,Pitt,Temple. Powerhouses. Tore up against Stony Brooke. Also some of those teams they beat ,had bad defenses. The pass rush will eat him up,with those cement blocks for feet. He was slower than a bunch of O-lineman at the draft. It will be the same as Fitz,the d will shorten the field because his lack of deep ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) But what if Marrone & Co. have assessed that Nassib does not have a chance to become an elite QB? Logically there is more chance that Nassib does not have that elite potential in him......and since Marrone knows him the best, he theoretically should know it......therefore it does not take a rocket surgeon to understand why the Bills in all likelihood will not draft Nassib. That being said......if Nassib does have that potential then I hope we do select him at #8. Elite? I'll gladly settle for good, The Bills haven't had a good QB in a long, long, time... Edited April 10, 2013 by dog14787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) But what if Marrone & Co. have assessed that Nassib does not have a chance to become an elite QB? Logically there is more chance that Nassib does not have that elite potential in him......and since Marrone knows him the best, he theoretically should know it......therefore it does not take a rocket surgeon to understand why the Bills in all likelihood will not draft Nassib. That being said......if Nassib does have that potential then I hope we do select him at #8. ...so clearly i cannot drink the wine in front of me! seriously, i love the banter back and forth because it all makes sense and is completely justifies on both sides. it is informative and entertaining to read through these qb threads but i tell you what, this draft cannot get here soon enough. Edited April 10, 2013 by swnybillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 ...so clearly i cannot drink the wine in front of me! seriously, i love the banter back and forth because it all makes sense and is completely justifies on both sides. it is informative and entertaining to read through these qb threads but i tell you what, this draft cannot get here soon enough. Inconceivable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 OK, we're 61 pages into this thing and it's time for c Inconceivable! I do not think that means what you think it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 That wimpy arm tore the hell out of Marrone`s team . Nassibs deep ball is not in Barkleys league. Nassib has a gun on short passes. Horrible soft floating Balloon passes deep . Watch Nassib against Rutgers,Pitt,Temple. Powerhouses. Tore up against Stony Brooke. Also some of those teams they beat ,had bad defenses. The pass rush will eat him up,with those cement blocks for feet. He was slower than a bunch of O-lineman at the draft. It will be the same as Fitz,the d will shorten the field because his lack of deep ball. There are many, if not most, evaluators who believe that Barkley doesn't have enough arm strength. Then there are many evaluators who believe that he has more than enough arm strength. It goes back to the many conflicting evaluatons that I spoke to. With respect to qb foot speed I don't think that it is too meaningful of an attribute. Brady, both Mannings, Brees, Warner were not by a long shot cheetahs. All these qbs are good candidates for the HOF. What is more important than foot speed is how you react and slide in the pocket. Many people have Gino Smith ranked as the top qb in this draft. There is a good chance that the Bills will be in position to take him. Will they? I don't know how they rate him compared to the other prospects. Again, the evaluations are all over the place. I believe that he has the best overall tools in this draft class. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he will be the best pro. With respect to Barkley outperforming Nassib in head to head competition means little. It is one superior team beating an inferior team. Rating individual players is all together a different endeavor. The point that I have been emphasizing in my posts is that there is a number of good qb prospects in this draft. It is the job of this front office to find the best prospect for this team. There are very good qb prospects who don't have a first round grade attached to them. That doesn't mean that those qbs can't be very good qbs. Kaepernick and Russell Wilson reflect that point. It comes down to the front office getting the job done or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 No genius, Marrone has an inside track, Ryan Nassib is a good QB that already knows the Offense, he's familiar with the coaching staff, and them with him It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why the Bills in all likelyhood will draft Nassib Marrone and co. will look like total nitwits If they let Nassib slip through their fingers... You probably have a point there. Marrone is no genius for reaching for his own ex-QB far ahead of where many others have him ranked, assuming Nassib isn't a total bust. Of course, if he is a bust, I still think Marrone looks like a fool -- as you say, he should have known better. So in that sense, there is no upside to Marrone either way. Elite? I'll gladly settle for good, The Bills haven't had a good QB in a long, long, time... Having a Trent Edwards/Ryan Fitzpatrick type of QB that can win 6-9 games a year may be good enough for you, but that's not going to be good enough for everybody. And Marrone's "inside track" on Nassib isn't going to squelch any criticism if it came to that. Building a winner isn't simply the act of selecting a QB in the first round. The guy actually has to be an elite player. There is a difference between selecting Brandon Weeden and RG3. Or more to the point, Roethlisberger or Losman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 You probably have a point there. Marrone is no genius for reaching for his own ex-QB far ahead of where many others have him ranked, assuming Nassib isn't a total bust. Of course, if he is a bust, I still think Marrone looks like a fool -- as you say, he should have known better. So in that sense, there is no upside to Marrone either way. Having a Trent Edwards/Ryan Fitzpatrick type of QB that can win 6-9 games a year may be good enough for you, but that's not going to be good enough for everybody. And Marrone's "inside track" on Nassib isn't going to squelch any criticism if it came to that. Building a winner isn't simply the act of selecting a QB in the first round. The guy actually has to be an elite player. There is a difference between selecting Brandon Weeden and RG3. The odds of being in a position to draft an elite qb such as Luck or RGIII may be less than 1%. If you are not in that position for twenty years what do you do? Nothing? That is the Buddy Nix school of drafting qbs i.e. perfection to be the enemy of the good. It takes some moxie to draft a Kaepernick, Wilson or Brees at a draft position not close to the top. Yet those players were very impactful qbs. Aaron Rodgers and Flacco weren't drafted at the top of their respective draft classes, yet they were significant players. If you are not in position to draft a Peyton Manning then there are other avenues to take such as taking a chance on a wounded Brees or vagabound qb such as Warner who can catapult an irrelevant franchise into relevancy. My point is that being passive and waiting for something to happen that is unlikely to happen is a mindset that has crippled this lackluster franchise. Making a transaction that fails is not worse than not making a transaction out of a fear of failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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