Could This Be The Beginning Of The New White Panther Party?

[We Come In Peace]

Where did Zimmerman say this??

Duh... right here obviously:

[Juror#8]

The only thing I've been doing here and in the other thread is pointing out your bias to give greater credence to the girl's testimony that needs be given. You continually cite her version of the events as if they bear greater factual history than Zimmerman's version, even though he was the one at the spot, and she has since been caught lying. It's immaterial how I view one lie in a person's testimony reltaive to another part of the case, but as a juror, that would certainly flavor my judgment.

 

So getting back to the only real facts of the case - the recorded phone calls, the layout of the complex and the timeline. And I go back to that which jibes more with Zimmerman's version of the events.

 

GG, seriously man...read what you're saying.

 

Even with the lie about a separate matter, her testimony is presumed to be CONSIDERABLY more reliable, and more substantive, BECAUSE SHE IS NOT ON TRIAL FOR MURDER. Yes, she lost her high school boyfriend. But that is not considered NEARLY as probatively challenging as someone who is trying to avoid being in prison for the next 40 years.

 

Zimmerman is not going to implicate himself. She doesn't have that consideration. She has less to lose that he does.

 

By the very nature of the process, her witness testimony carries MORE PROBATIVE VALUE. Period. End of story. Heck, the witness testimony of a high, meth-mouthed, multiple felon, who just admitted to wholesale confidence schemes up and down the east coast would have slightly more probative value THAN THE AFFIRMATIVE DECLARATIONS OF THE ACTUAL PERSON ON TRIAL.

 

Notice that I didn't say that it shouldn't be challenged or that it should be believed ipso facto. I said that it carries more probative weight, if we're taking both persons - the girlfriend and Zimmerman - exactly where we find them AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

 

Tell me you know this. You don't have to go to a T14 law school (like me) to know this. Just watch Matlock and save a hundred stacks.

 

Rob knows I'm right. He drinks the same kool aid that I do. Maybe it will mean more coming from him...

Edited March 28, 2013 by Juror#8

[Maury Ballstein]

Where did Zimmerman say this??

 

when he called the cops and said "theres a suspicious person walking throught the neighborhood" maybe i should follow him and bring my piece..

 

if Trayvon was "conner, tanner, luke, or dustin" he wouldn't have been suspicious at all is what i presume. GZ might have invited him in for a nice lemonade even.

 

GZ's spotty history makes me believe this is exactly how it went down. He's a clown, he deserves what he got. GZ my advice to you is pick up the PS3 and shoot people in Call of Duty or Battlefield like all the others do.

 

his racist brothers tweets aren't helping his cause at all.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Ryan L Billz

[Juror#8]

It wouldn't change the analysis. If Zimmerman attacked him Zimmerman would not be able to claim self-defense anyway b/c initiating aggression precludes a self-defense claim, even if one attempts to retreat after initiating the attack.

 

I recall that in Florida, it does. I believe that it is possible for an initial aggressor to act in such a way so as to "cool off" the confrontation making a subsequent escalation a separate and distinct circumstance for consideration. Not licensed in Florida though so I can't be sure.

 

I guess you'd have to look at the extent of the initial "attack" and if Zimmerman indicated affirmatively that he was removing himself from the confrontation.

[Chef Jim]

when he called the cops and said "theres a suspicious person walking throught the neighborhood" maybe i should follow him and bring my piece..

 

if Trayvon was "conner, tanner, luke, or dustin" he wouldn't have been suspicious at all is what i presume. GZ might have invited him in for a nice lemonade even.

 

GZ's spotty history makes me believe this is exactly how it went down. He's a clown, he deserves what he got. GZ my advice to you is pick up the PS3 and shoot people in Call of Duty or Battlefield like all the others do.

 

his racist brothers tweets aren't helping his cause at all.

 

Where did he say a suspicious black person? His brother is a racist therefore your conclusion is he is one too. God you're really bad at this.

[Rob's House]

 

 

when he called the cops and said "theres a suspicious person walking throught the neighborhood" maybe i should follow him and bring my piece..

 

if Trayvon was "conner, tanner, luke, or dustin" he wouldn't have been suspicious at all is what i presume. GZ might have invited him in for a nice lemonade even.

 

GZ's spotty history makes me believe this is exactly how it went down. He's a clown, he deserves what he got. GZ my advice to you is pick up the PS3 and shoot people in Call of Duty or Battlefield like all the others do.

 

his racist brothers tweets aren't helping his cause at all.

That's exactly what you're doing, but you're presenting it as though it were factual. To tie into another thread, what you're doing is a variation of confirmation bias. You're molding a story, the facts of which you don't know, to fit your preconceived notions of how people & the world work, & you're filling in the gaps with unverifiable assumptions consistent with your prejudice.

[Maury Ballstein]

The whole occurence started with the suspicious person. In the real world where I am from suspicious does mean black very very often lets not sugarcoat that.

 

If i am wrong then i am wrong but don't act like thats not a possibility.

 

I didn't say he's a racist cuz his brother is but don't see that as far fetched either (its already noted GZ hates the mexicans from his myspace page) .............said his brother is not helping his case at all.

 

why the love for GZ there chef? he's an innocent party who was attacked by a thug? he seems like a jackass to me who put himself in a bad situation.

 

that suspicious kid is getting a "whats up and a head nod from me" instead of a halt boyyyyyy dont move (another ryan l billz assumption).....situation would have played out a lot differently with no deaths IMO....

 

when your dealing with a urban youth you must know they are people also and like to be approached as equals....not suspicious miscreants.

 

 

rob i hear ya............thats why i said i presume........these are my thoughts on the situation......

Edited March 28, 2013 by Ryan L Billz

[Rob's House]

 

 

I recall that in Florida, it does. I believe that it is possible for an initial aggressor to act in such a way so as to "cool off" the confrontation making a subsequent escalation a separate and distinct circumstance for consideration. Not licensed in Florida though so I can't be sure.

 

I guess you'd have to look at the extent of the initial "attack" and if Zimmerman indicated affirmatively that he was removing himself from the confrontation.

I haven't looked specifically into FL law either, so I suppose there could be a twist of some sort. I just can't conceive of a situation where it would apply, but I suppose there could be scenarios I've not conceived of.

[DC Tom]

The whole occurence started with the suspicious person. In the real world where I am from suspicious does mean black very very often.

 

If i am wrong then i am wrong but don't act like thats not a possibility.

 

I didn't say he's a racist cuz his brother is but don't see that as far fetched either (its already noted GZ hates the mexicans from his myspace page) .............said his brother is not helping his case at all.

 

why the love for GZ there chef? he's an innocent party who was attacked by a thug? he seems like a jackass to me who put himself in a bad situation.

 

that suspicious kid is getting a "whats up and a head nod from me" instead of a halt boyyyyyy

 

In the real world where I live, "suspicious" means I've left the house wearing my oilskin duster, and someone at the elementary school two blocks down was afraid I was going to shoot up the place and called the cops.

 

I probably get detained by the police more than any one else in my neighborhood (save for the ****head down the street that beats his wife). Wacky, wacky world.

 

I don't think that you understood my point.

 

I was wondering if, at the point of confrontation and Zimmerman getting his ass kicked, Martin having a 'Stand Your Ground' defense could ameliorate his actions and be dispositive when considering it's applicability in Zimmerman's case.

 

It's theoretical and fun to query. I'd even bet that the attorneys are looking at it contrapositively.

 

No, I got all that. It's exactly what I was saying, you just expressed it better.

[GG]

GG, seriously man...read what you're saying.

 

Even with the lie about a separate matter, her testimony is presumed to be CONSIDERABLY more reliable, and more substantive, BECAUSE SHE IS NOT ON TRIAL FOR MURDER. Yes, she lost her high school boyfriend. But that is not considered NEARLY as probatively challenging as someone who is trying to avoid being in prison for the next 40 years.

 

Zimmerman is not going to implicate himself. She doesn't have that consideration. She has less to lose that he does.

 

By the very nature of the process, her witness testimony carries MORE PROBATIVE VALUE. Period. End of story. Heck, the witness testimony of a high, meth-mouthed, multiple felon, who just admitted to wholesale confidence schemes up and down the east coast would have slightly more probative value THAN THE AFFIRMATIVE DECLARATIONS OF THE ACTUAL PERSON ON TRIAL.

 

Notice that I didn't say that it shouldn't be challenged or that it should be believed ipso facto. I said that it carries more probative weight, if we're taking both persons - the girlfriend and Zimmerman - exactly where we find them AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

 

Tell me you know this. You don't have to go to a T14 law school (like me) to know this. Just watch Matlock and save a hundred stacks.

 

Rob knows I'm right. He drinks the same kool aid that I do. Maybe it will mean more coming from him...

 

Except Zimmerman told his story immediately after the event, and the known facts about the case are more aligned with his story. The girfriend's version was not a sworn testimony if you want to call it that, but a recording of an interview with Martin's family attorney, which appeared nearly a month after the slaying. And you are saying that her story carries more weight? You don't know what she told the prosecutors & defense in subsequent discovery and I'm guessing the prosecutors will have a tough time using her as a key witness, because there was no sworn testimony close to the act, as far as we know. Yet, you take her words at face value, through the mouthpiece of the family attorney of what Trayvon may or may not have said one month previously, when she didn't even know he was dead for three days.

 

Yet you are the one scolding everyone else to try to stick with the facts.

[Chef Jim]

The whole occurence started with the suspicious person. In the real world where I am from suspicious does mean black very very often lets not sugarcoat that.

 

If i am wrong then i am wrong but don't act like thats not a possibility.

 

I didn't say he's a racist cuz his brother is but don't see that as far fetched either (its already noted GZ hates the mexicans from his myspace page) .............said his brother is not helping his case at all.

 

why the love for GZ there chef? he's an innocent party who was attacked by a thug? he seems like a jackass to me who put himself in a bad situation.

 

that suspicious kid is getting a "whats up and a head nod from me" instead of a halt boyyyyyy dont move (another ryan l billz assumption).....situation would have played out a lot differently with no deaths IMO....

 

when your dealing with a urban youth you must know they are people also and like to be approached as equals....not suspicious miscreants.

 

 

rob i hear ya............thats why i said i presume........these are my thoughts on the situation......

 

Because if you treat me like a suspicious person I'm gonna pound your !@#$ing fat ass. Yeah, nice kid.

[Maury Ballstein]

antagonistic might be the correct word. you don't know i don't know, lets wait for the lawyers to release more info i say.

 

GZ turned into a fatass now, after the fact...........gained 100 lb's in a year..........how the F do you pull that off.........put the steak and cheese down fatty.

 

.

[IDBillzFan]

antagonistic might be the correct word. you don't know i don't know, lets wait for the lawyers to release more info i say.

 

GZ turned into a fatass now, after the fact...........gained 100 lb's in a year..........how the F do you pull that off.........put the steak and cheese down fatty.

 

You're like the PPP version of Debbie Wasserman Shultz and Nancy Pelosi rolled into a Keith Olbermann combover. Rude, condescending, embarrassingly judgemental...all followed up with a moron cherry on top of your idiot sundae like "let's wait for the lawyers to release more info."

 

The more I read from you , the more I think you were fired all those times because you're just a ginormous dumbass.

Edited March 28, 2013 by LABillzFan

[Maury Ballstein]

rude? condescending?

 

thats not very nice sir. im being judgemental by calling GZ a fatass? he is a fatass. thats a simple observation.

 

i am neither rude nor condescending, this banter here is in good fun on my end. "and yes we should wait longer" or you can provide me with a link to the labillz/3rd certified link that exonerates GZ so i can stop wading around with grey area in regards to GZ because at this time that is what is out there.

 

some say he was attacked while trying to get back into his car, others say he was an antagonist and a real POS with a long arrest record.

 

SHOW ME THE MONEY.

[DC Tom]

rude? condescending?

 

thats not very nice sir. im being judgemental by calling GZ a fatass? he is a fatass. thats a simple observation.

 

i am neither rude nor condescending, this banter here is in good fun on my end. "and yes we should wait longer" or you can provide me with a link to the labillz/3rd certified link that exonerates GZ so i can stop wading around with grey area in regards to GZ because at this time that is what is out there.

 

some say he was attacked while trying to get back into his car, others say he was an antagonist and a real POS with a long arrest record.

 

SHOW ME THE MONEY.

 

I don't know why anyone would even bother with you. You'll only accept evidence that fits your preconceived notion anyway.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

. . . Even with the lie about a separate matter, her testimony is presumed to be CONSIDERABLY more reliable, and more substantive, BECAUSE SHE IS NOT ON TRIAL FOR MURDER. Yes, she lost her high school boyfriend. But that is not considered NEARLY as probatively challenging as someone who is trying to avoid being in prison for the next 40 years.

 

Zimmerman is not going to implicate himself. She doesn't have that consideration. She has less to lose that he does.

 

By the very nature of the process, her witness testimony carries MORE PROBATIVE VALUE. Period. End of story. Heck, the witness testimony of a high, meth-mouthed, multiple felon, who just admitted to wholesale confidence schemes up and down the east coast would have slightly more probative value THAN THE AFFIRMATIVE DECLARATIONS OF THE ACTUAL PERSON ON TRIAL.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 

Tell me you know this. You don't have to go to a T14 law school (like me) to know this. . . .

Hey T14 . . . My oldest brother Darryl didn't even go to a T300 vocational school, but he knows how to use the Internet. So he knows that criminal pattern jury instructions are published online in at least some states, and available to anyone who knows where to look. Funny thing, Darryl can't find a criminal pattern jury instruction from ANY jurisdiction that supports the notion that a witness who has lied about something should be considered more credible, when testifying about other issues, than the defendant, merely because the defendant is accused of a crime.

 

I'm guessing that even though most T14 law school grads never go near a criminal trial because the money is better elsewhere, law schools in at least the top 15 or so teach how to find pattern (i.e., pre-approved) jury instructions. So how about it, is there anything to back up your claims?

 

Then again, you tried to persuade us that your opinion on this matter was correct by stating "Period. End of story." So if you really went to a T14 law school, maybe you didn't get your money's worth.

 

At least, that's what Darryl thinks. And he plays chess.

 

Roll Tide!

Edited March 29, 2013 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[3rdnlng]

So, there is an 80 page thread about Trayvon Martin's death and surrounding circumstances of his altercation with George Zimmerman. It started out with a bunch of liberal pantywaists accusing GZ of hunting down and assassinating TM. GZ was considered a "cold-blooded killer" and called every name in the book. The New Black Panthers, Spike Lee and the Fake Ministers all chimed in basically calling for vigilante justice against GZ. Obama even put his 1/2 cent in. Many of us urged caution and reserved judgement until more facts surfaced. I personally wondered why the local DA had refused to prosecute. Well political pressure must have won out and GZ was indicted, but lo and behold the facts did surface and it slowly became apparent why GZ hadn't initially been indicted. So, now we have a few uninformed posters repeating the same misinformed slop that first came out about a year ago and has been shown to be bs. I can only characterize them as lazy and willingly biased. Whether from a faux legal standpoint or just out of willful ignorance they stick to their misinformation or wildly imagined scenarios fabricated without evidence. It's an absolute laugher to see them call for "waiting for more facts to come out" or "let the law decide" while simultaneously calling GZ fat and racist and trying to interpret what certainly appears to be the truth and consistant with GZ's story with some far-fetched, made up scenario.

 

So, my point is that any of you lazy-ass posters that want to argue this case without having done your homework, or want to quote opinions as fact but formed out of the frenzy of the moment can !@#$ off. I've followed this case for the last year, started with no perceived bias and have come to an informed opinion as to what likely happened. Those of you that I am referring to know who you are and should be ashamed of your lack of intellectual and moral honesty.

[Maury Ballstein]

guess we will find out soon then huh? why is GZ not free to go yet? if it was this clear cut then this would be over by now. but it's not so my loopy lazy uninformed opinions on the matter still are alive. GZ's backround seems sketchy is all I am saying.

 

it's one year later yet GZ won't attend the "stand your ground" hearing? this is clearest case of stand your ground the way you tell it, no?

 

the almighty legal system will let us know the final story, not some random poster on an internet board FTR.

 

**this is not a fact** this is my opinion GZ was an antagonist who barked up the wrong tree, F him. Sketchy past (sorry i dont fu*#&^%^ assault cops like GZ, where i am from) you can ignore this as not relevant for some reason? daddy was a GD judge ? maybe that had something to do with the DA not prosecuting? theres some muther f*#&% smoke here sir.

 

he's so innocent that he's 300k deep in legal fees and is gonna draw this out another year or so huh? seems like GZ has a lot to hide

 

burying those deep emotions in another slice of pizza.....just another overzealous shmo with some violence in his past is the picture most of media is portraying to me.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Ryan L Billz

[GG]

What in the world are you talking about? He's indicted on 2nd degree murder charges and is awaiting his trial date. How is he supposed to go free when the court hasn't ruled yet? Are you dense on purpose?

[3rdnlng]

guess we will find out soon then huh? why is GZ not free to go yet? if it was this clear cut then this would be over by now. but it's not so my loopy lazy uninformed opinions on the matter still are alive. GZ's backround seems sketchy is all I am saying.

 

it's one year later yet GZ won't attend the "stand your ground" hearing? this is clearest case of stand your ground the way you tell it, no?

 

the almighty legal system will let us know the final story, not some random poster on an internet board FTR.

 

**this is not a fact** this is my opinion GZ was an antagonist who barked up the wrong tree, F him. Sketchy past (sorry i dont fu*#&^%^ assault cops like GZ, where i am from) you can ignore this as not relevant for some reason? daddy was a GD judge ? maybe that had something to do with the DA not prosecuting? theres some muther f*#&% smoke here sir.

 

he's so innocent that he's 300k deep in legal fees and is gonna draw this out another year or so huh? seems like GZ has a lot to hide

 

burying those deep emotions in another slice of pizza.....just another overzealous shmo with some violence in his past is the picture most of media is portraying to me.

 

So, you've given up on the "let the courts decide" rhetoric and make no pretense about him being guilty because of your preconceived opinions? What was the reason that the defense decided to not go for a "Stand Your Ground" hearing? Do you even know?