Fred Davis FA TE has dinner with Bills brass

[beerme1]

The Bills are likely to be more of a passing team, making him a better fit and giving him more opportunity. It also points out he was productive with Rex Grossman, so he's done it before..

Do you really think we're likely to be a passing team? I don't. We have a strength and RB and massive question mark for QB that may make Rex Grossman look like a stud. I think we should be a running team even though CJ gets tired.

[Best Player Available]

Do you really think we're likely to be a passing team? I don't. We have a strength and RB and massive question mark for QB that may make Rex Grossman look like a stud. I think we should be a running team even though CJ gets tired.

Oxygen and Red Bull, CJ will be good for 30 carry's a game. He can hydrate at the half.

[Estro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZiCyUxIh0k

[biggerdaddynj]

Medically cleared to do what? Put weight on his foot? He has only been medically cleared to rehab only. Great... sign him. Now the Bills will have two TEs that won't play this year. I don't think Two TEs, each with a bum leg can be combined to make one healthy one.

There have been players who have come back from achilles' injuries and others who haven't (as medical technology increases so too does the return rate of pro athletes from injuries that used to be career ending). The Bills medical staff will put in their due diligence in assessing whether or not Davis is one of those guys who can return. Until we hear from an orthopedic specialist who has examined Davis and his MRIs, etc... none of us can do anything but speculate. If he is one of thos guys who can return and perform, he is clearly a good signing.

Edited March 25, 2013 by biggerdaddynj

[purple haze]

Regarding his accuser: “It’s just all made up and flagellant,” Davis told the judge during his closing argument (he served as his own attorney).

 

Here's a guy who decided to serve as his own defense lawyer, then calls the charges against him "flagellant". Look up that word to see how intellectually challenged this man is.

 

Who cares. The Bills aren't playing lawyers. They're playing football. And Davis can do that.

 

It was a classy charity move.

 

Even when Davis was healthy he wasn't much of a factor. He was a lot more sizzle than steak.

 

With a torn achilles, his sizzle is gone and even less steak.

 

Bottom line, if he passes a physical, accepts the veteran minimum, and understands he's only coming in to compete for a job... no guarantees, then ok.

 

No such thing as a charity move. The GM, Asst. GM, Head Coach and possibly others were present. That's serious interest.

And Davis can play. Remember, Chris Cooley was still the man at TE for the Skins when Davis was drafted. He's not

Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates in his prime, but he is athletic, can line up in multiple positions and cause mismatches.

No harm in bringing him in. And it won't be for any minimum.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

There have been players who have come back from achilles' injuries and others who haven't (as medical technology increases so too does the return rate of pro athletes from injuries that used to be career ending). The Bills medical staff will put in their due diligence in assessing whether or not Davis is one of those guys who can return. Until we hear from an orthopedic specialist who has examined Davis and his MRIs, etc... none of us can do anything but speculate. If he is one of thos guys who can return and perform, he is clearly a good signing.

 

Any examples of players who were as good after a torn achilles tendon as they were before it?

[Aus Bills]

"Of the 31 players who sustained an Achilles tendon rupture, 21 (64%) returned to play in the NFL at an average of 11 months after injury. In the three seasons following their return, those 21 players saw significant decreases in games played and power ratings compared to the three seasons preceding the injury."

 

"Furthermore, in the reviewed 21 NFL skill players who returned to play, there were significant decreases in games played per season (11.67 games per year pre-injury versus 6.17 games per year postinjury) when averaged over the three seasons before the injury and the three seasons after the injury.³ There were also decreases averaging nearly 50% in power ratings of the returning players for the three seasons after the injury compared to the three seasons before the injury."

 

http://lowerextremityreview.com/article/return-to-football-after-achilles-tendon-rupture

 

It doesnt look good, that being said who thought AP would win MVP coming off a torn ACL.

[BillnutinHouston]

Who cares. The Bills aren't playing lawyers. They're playing football. And Davis can do that.

 

I never said he couldn't play. Was commenting on his intellectual prowess.

[machine gun kelly]

He'd have to be cheap with incentives to give him more money for the longer deal. I'd take a chance if we can dump him in one year if it doesn't work. I like the effort on Merriman, but it was a bad contract. He never earned that money and too much guaranteed.

[Maury Ballstein]

Rosenhoser is a jerk. He took the Bills big time on McGahee. He's a master of pitching damaged goods and making them out to be better than new.

 

I cannot believe any team is gonna sign him, even for the minimum... he aint gonna play this year... and if he does it aint gonna be for more than a handful of games... and he aint gonna be the same.

 

McGahee who's still getting carries 5 years later? Damaged goods that everyone knew about because the big injury happened in college with EVERYONE watching? I don't really understand your take on this. Drew Rosenhaus is the agent.

 

Kelly and Beer have already addressed your earlier post about the "sizzle" Which IMO, he has tons of sizzle, very very good recieving TE.

 

High risk high reward player. The NFL am video is a little strange though, guy looks like he's en route to fail his 5th drug test, eyes seem halfway open, baked again perhaps.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Ryan L Billz

[Beerball]

McGahee who's still getting carries 5 years later? Damaged goods that everyone knew about because the big injury happened in college with EVERYONE watching? I don't really understand your take on this. Drew Rosenhaus is the agent.

 

Kelly and Beer have already addressed your earlier post about the "sizzle" Which IMO, he has tons of sizzle, very very good recieving TE.

 

High risk high reward player. The NFL am video is a little strange though, guy looks like he's en route to fail his 5th drug test, eyes seem halfway open, baked again perhaps.

You can't handle the Trooth!

[simpleman]

1. We need a TE this year, not sure about our own TE healing and we consider signing another that may not heal or be completely ready for this season. Sounds like more of a possible 2014 help than for this year. Was not worth 5+ million even before his injury. Definitely a no unless it is a low value signing with no guarantee and high performance incentives. That way if he is healthy, he earns what he deserves. If he can't come back from the injury we don't waste our cap on a gamble.
   
2. I still think of Merriman when I read this. Like Merriman, he might never come back to his pre-injury potential. With Merriman I was Okay with the risk, since we had no cap issues. We are tight at cap this year, so I am not ok with this. We need a functioning TE NOW!
   

[Doc]

"Of the 31 players who sustained an Achilles tendon rupture, 21 (64%) returned to play in the NFL at an average of 11 months after injury. In the three seasons following their return, those 21 players saw significant decreases in games played and power ratings compared to the three seasons preceding the injury."

 

"Furthermore, in the reviewed 21 NFL skill players who returned to play, there were significant decreases in games played per season (11.67 games per year pre-injury versus 6.17 games per year postinjury) when averaged over the three seasons before the injury and the three seasons after the injury.³ There were also decreases averaging nearly 50% in power ratings of the returning players for the three seasons after the injury compared to the three seasons before the injury."

 

http://lowerextremityreview.com/article/return-to-football-after-achilles-tendon-rupture

 

It doesnt look good, that being said who thought AP would win MVP coming off a torn ACL.

Good find. Pass. And it's not surprising that AP won the MVP after the ACL since those are NBD these days.

[thebandit27]

Any examples of players who were as good after a torn achilles tendon as they were before it?

 

Dan Marino

Terrell Suggs

Jon Beason

Mikel LeShoure

 

And again, let's wait and see what happens here. They're bringing him in on Wednesday, when I'm guessing he'll have a physical. I'm sure that will affect what contract he's able to get--from the Bills or anyone else.

[biggerdaddynj]

Dan Marino

Terrell Suggs

Jon Beason

Mikel LeShoure

 

And again, let's wait and see what happens here. They're bringing him in on Wednesday, when I'm guessing he'll have a physical. I'm sure that will affect what contract he's able to get--from the Bills or anyone else.

Greg Ellis: "nine games into the 2006 season, Ellis tore his Achilles tendon, one of the most debilitating of all injuries for a football player. Even Ellis doubted his comeback at times." He was voted the Associated Press 2007 NFL Comeback Player of the Year after a 12 1/2 sack season. He was in his 10th season at the time of his injury (and was 31 yrs old)--post-op he played until 2010 (most players don't sniff that many years in the NFL). Guess the naysayers would have passed on AP after his injury and wouldn't have waited to see what the experts (i.e., medical professionals) had to say. Not saying that Davis is OK and will be fine for all I know he might be shot--that said, my point is merely not to rush to judgment. Everyone recovers from surgery differently--there is no guarantee one way or another (I'm a year removed from double spinal fusion and still hurtin'--other patients are jogging). Davis is young (27) and medical technology improves every day--maybe Davis can come back and perform at a high level or maybe he can't. What's wrong with waiting instead of hating (that was a BAD pun, sorry!).

Edited March 25, 2013 by biggerdaddynj

[Dr. Trooth]

Poor example on damaged goods. McGahee is a very good/productive player. He was drafted ten years ago and he's still going strong.

 

Simply productive is not what you expect froma 1st rd. RB. The Bills got poor value and s#it production from McGahee. It took him 4-5 years to overcome that injury he sustained in college. Taking him in the first round and not getting a single game out of him in his first year is an example of stupidity and incompetence on the Bills part. He never lived up to his hype no matter where he played. Even in the year he gained the most yards of his career with the Bills he didn't avg. 4 yds/carry. 8100 yds. in a 10 year career aint exactly my expectations of a running back drafted in the first round. Rosenhoser hosed the Bills... he tried to bait every damn team in the league into believeing he was better than ever after suffering the injury. Naturally, the Bills, exhibiting their stupidity, took the bait. If history repeats itself with Fred Davis, the Bills haven't gotten any smarter or better... and they just learned a lesson with Merriman.

[Lurker]

It doesnt look good

Here's the study that provides many of the underlying stats cited in that report:

 

http://upoj.org/site.../v19/v19_07.pdf

 

While it makes some interesting points, the thing that pops out to me is that the players who suffered an achilles injury were already in decline (as far as their power rating) before the rupture occurred (charts on pages 3 and 5).

 

So was their performance decline due to the injury itself or just a natural part of the aging process (the average age of a player sustaining a rupture was 29)?

 

Only three tight ends were in the group of 31 players sampled. For that matter, only 5 RBs and WRs were studied--since they make a big deal about the recovery success of these positions, that number seems too small for statistical analysis. Too bad the study doesn't name names and show whether the players in their sample were scrubs or stars, as well.

 

Also, I have to believe there have been a great deal of advances in surgical technique since the 1997-2002 period of the surveyed NFL players.

 

EDIT:

 

Here's something from PFT when our old friend Jason Peters suffered his injury:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/31/typical-time-of-return-from-ruptured-achilles-is-11-months/

 

"Schwartz said about one-third of NFL players who suffered ruptured Achilles tendons never played in the NFL again, although it's possible that many of those were marginal players who weren't good enough to make a roster, or older players who decided to retire rather than go through the grueling rehab needed to get back on the field after such a serious injury."

Edited March 25, 2013 by Lurker

[1B4IDie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZiCyUxIh0k

He is very talented and he can be an extremely productive receiving TE. Anyone saying different hasn't really watched his play or aware of what he is capable.

 

This man threw a bottle at transvestite pimp and smoked weed during the season and got suspended.

 

Usually I have a more liberal view on character issues, these are young men, they make mistakes. However that is just some really stupid stuff, really really really stupid.

 

I wouldn't want him passing out doobies in teh locker room.

 

Listen to the interview that is a smokers voice. Look at those eyes at the space ship on his shirt. He might be high in the interview. How many times does he say "what?" and the interviewer has to repeat his (stupid) question?

[Coach Tuesday]

Just so I understand it:

 

For the past two weeks many folks (myself included) have been agitated by the Bills' lack of activity in FA and apparent lack of efforts to plug key holes prior to the draft.

 

Now, it gets announced that OBD had dinner with a free agent tight end, who may or may not sign here for an unknown amount and length of time, and folks are agitated.

 

For the life of me I cannot fathom why. Nothing has even happened yet. They haven't signed anyone. If they do sign Davis, we don't yet know what the terms would be. And there is no reason to suggest that signing him will preclude signing someone else, or even drafting another tight end.

 

So I ask, WHAT IS IT YOU PEOPLE WANT?

[Fan in Chicago]

Just so I understand it:

 

For the past two weeks many folks (myself included) have been agitated by the Bills' lack of activity in FA and apparent lack of efforts to plug key holes prior to the draft.

 

Now, it gets announced that OBD had dinner with a free agent tight end, who may or may not sign here for an unknown amount and length of time, and folks are agitated.

 

For the life of me I cannot fathom why. Nothing has even happened yet. They haven't signed anyone. If they do sign Davis, we don't yet know what the terms would be. And there is no reason to suggest that signing him will preclude signing someone else, or even drafting another tight end.

 

So I ask, WHAT IS IT YOU PEOPLE WANT?

 

Not one of the guys with pitchforks but here is my explanation - there has been a dearth of information regarding discussions, workouts etc with free agents. Such activity may very well be on-going and the Bills are quiet because of Buddy-gate and I am fine if that is the case.

 

All the news we have received is about private workouts with Geno Smith, EJ Manuel etc.

 

But then the only piece of news re: FA that comes out is regarding a TE who suffered a big injury just a few months back. If the FO is going to control and manage what news gets out, can they not do so with a more exciting FA ? Leads me to believe they either made a poor choice of who they want the fans to find out about or that there are no other FA discussions happening. Hence the frustration IMHO.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Fan in Chicago