FLFan Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 BSeems to me we'll be getting our WR upgrade from the draft, not free agency after reading that. It would seem we would have to. What viable free agent WR would want to come to Buffalo right now given the current QB situation? Not a knock really, just a fact. Things will change after the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 We are going to enter the Johnny Football sweepstakes. I am okay with 0-16 & drafting Manziel. At least its a plan. That's a totally great idea, to throw an entire season and throw paying fans under the bus so you can have a shot at a guy who might reject you because he has college eligibility left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 What "analytic system" is Brandon pushing that Nix knows so little about? And how is it being applied to their FA strategy? Truth be told, there isn't much difference between the "top tier" free agents and those remaining to be signed this year. Case in point is our own Andy Levitre. He isn't much better than Brandon Moore, if at all. Heck, Moore is a far better run blocker anyway. GO BILLS!!! I'm not sure how to approach your question. You know as well as I do the Bills are now using analytics to aid with player evaluation. They haven't shared with the public the details of what exactly analytics means to them, so as for how it effects our approach to free agency, your guess is as good as mine. The rest of your post I could not agree more with, and with the familiarity Moore has with both Marrone and Pettine you'd think a marriage would make sense for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'm not sure how to approach your question. You know as well as I do the Bills are now using analytics to aid with player evaluation. They haven't shared with the public the details of what exactly analytics means to them, so as for how it effects our approach to free agency, your guess is as good as mine. More accurately Brandon stated he wanted to begin an analytics program and layer it into all aspects of the operation. That's not exactly a switch on the wall that he threw and suddenly the team is making every decision based on complete, proven statistical models and data analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 More accurately Brandon stated he wanted to begin an analytics program and layer it into all aspects of the operation. That's not exactly a switch on the wall that he threw and suddenly the team is making every decision based on complete, proven statistical models and data analysis. Fair enough. It still sounds to me like it's moving away from the way Buddy Nix is accustomed to doing things, which was all I meant to suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) It seems to me that many here seem to suffer from the delusion that winning 2-3 games next season will be forgiven. It won't. Down the road, that 2-14 season will always factor into the assessment of whether a coach or GM should be fired or not. Do you think Donohoe was given a mulligan for his first 3-13 season when the piper came calling a few years later? Are we letting Nix off the hook for his 4-12 season (with an 0-8 start that ended the season before it reached the halfway point)? What's the record we refer to when judging Nix, after all - 12-20 or 16-32? In retrospect, was Donohoe 31-49 or 28-36? Unless I've missed something, everyone I've ever come across - the media, fans, others in the league - see his record as 31-49. In other words, a complete failure. If the people running the Bills think that they won't be held accountable for a tank season, they're fools. And everyone here who thinks they won't hold the folks running the show now accountable for a 2-14 season has an astonishing lack of foresight. Trust me, you all will be pointing to the full record 3-4 years down the road. Awful years are never forgotten unless the team truly excels and becomes a SB contender, but that's hardly likely. The bottom line: it's always in a coach and GM's s interest to win as many games as possible from the get-go. Edited March 21, 2013 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Fair enough. It still sounds to me like it's moving away from the way Buddy Nix is accustomed to doing things, which was all I meant to suggest. Oh, I agree. I have little doubt that Brandon was making a stark comment about "business as usual" moving ahead with "his" team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 It seems to me that many here seem to suffer from the delusion that winning 2-3 games next season will be forgiven. It won't. Down the road, that 2-14 season will always factor into the assessment of whether a coach or GM should be fired or not. Do you think Donohoe was given a mulligan for his first 3-13 season when the piper came calling a few years later? Are we letting Nix off the hook for his 4-12 season (with an 0-8 start that ended the season before it reached the halfway point)? What's the record we refer to when judging Nix, after all - 12-20 or 16-32? In retrospect, was Donohoe 31-49 or 28-36? Unless I've missed something, everyone I've ever come across - the media, fans, others in the league - see his record as 31-49. In other words, a complete failure. If the people running the Bills think that they won't be held accountable for a tank season, they're fools. And everyone here who thinks they won't hold the folks running the show now accountable for a 2-14 season has an astonishing lack of foresight. Trust me, you all will be pointing to the full record 3-4 years down the road. Awful years are never forgotten unless the team truly excels and becomes a SB contender, but that's hardly likely. The bottom line: it's always in a coach and GM's s interest to win as many games as possible from the get-go. I think we're diasgreeing around the edges. Greggo was given a pass in 2001 because there was an understanding that the roster was overhauled. He was not given a pass in 2003 because the team did not improve as much as expected. Same with Donahoe. Given his machinations, the team should have gone to the playoffs at least once in his tenure, and by his end, the roster was fairly weak. Yes, that first year's horrible record plays into the overall W/L record, but there's generally more forgiveness in the first year. I expect that Marrone will be given a mulligan for '13, but a much shortter leash for '14. Even if he goes 2-14 this year, as long as they see signs of positive transition, he'll be forgiven. Case in point - Chuck Knox's/Marv Levy's first years vs Kay Stephenson's/Hank Bullough's first years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 More accurately Brandon stated he wanted to begin an analytics program and layer it into all aspects of the operation. That's not exactly a switch on the wall that he threw and suddenly the team is making every decision based on complete, proven statistical models and data analysis. And, by the way, I read "operation" as concessions, security, parking, marketing/media relations/community relations, all the way down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 So, Corey Mac and Kyle Moore are the keys to making a SB run? This must be the first experience with a coaching change for some. Marrone is gonna run things his way and if certain players aren't part of that plan, so be it. GO BILLS!!! Corey has been pretty important on special teams and has delivered every time he was called on offense last couple of seasons, so yes, Corey is a player I'd love to have back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 At this rate, we're going to have to sign 12-15 UDFA's. Which--since it's obvious we're not in win-now mode--might not be such a bad thing. Buffalo Bills--starting from scratch since 2000. Agreed. And not just sign 15-20 UDFAs, but actively plan on 5-10 making the team. That's kind of scary. That's not really the impression one gets reading the article. It says there is interest by the Bills, no real market for some of their free agents (meaning they can be had for at or near the minimum), and yet Nix stated they wouldn't be pursuing them until later in the summer or even early in the season. As the author points out, Nix seems to be suggesting they won't be making moves on any free agents until Byrd's deal is done. Rebuilding "via mid to low tier FA's" on the cheap is not really even hinted at there. The more Nix talks, the less impressed I get, and the less sense I get that the Bills have a coherent plan (or that they've shared it with their GM). I get the rationale that with a glutted market of veterans and no championship hopes this year anyway (which is pathetic in year 4 of a rebuild), you want to wait out the market and get bargains. But I don't see anything beyond fan speculation that says the Bills will be doing that. The 1 signing they made, while not crazy money, was an immediate "we really want this guy specifically" signing (called him at 12:01am on first day of negotiation period, e.g.), and wasn't a bargain contract. Lawson didn't get star money, but his contract is decidedly middle to upper-middle class for an NFL LB. The Bills may very well have a plan, AND that plan may be a good one. (Let's hope so!) And if so, they're probably wise to play it close to the vest. But if that plan was "wait out the big-money signings, then fill holes with undervalued bargain contracts," we probably would've already seen 3-4 signings by now. No one at 1 Bills Drive has even mentioned the fact that we lost our starting LG and his primary backup, and we haven't heard any rumors of the Bills meeting/negotiating with a possible replacement for either. Prior to the start of FA, we heard a lot of speculation about Pettine wanting a bunch of (available) veterans who knew his defense, but we haven't heard any rumors of the Bills interested in any of them since FA actually began. Agents usually leak negotiation info to drive up their clients' market, so even if the Bills are running a tight ship, leaks should still be getting out on the other end. I really have no idea what the Bills are doing or whether they have a plan or not. I just can't give them the benefit of the doubt after so many years of ineptness. I won't assume that they're competent, I need to actually see signs of planning/competence before I can trust them. One of my worries is that the Bills DO want to sign a bunch of guys (including re-signing Byrd, Moore, McIntyre, etc.), but they're legitimately so busy with draft scouting (Nix, Whaley, etc.) and a combo of roster evaluation/playbook building (Marrone, Hackett, Pettine, et al.) that they aren't able to get to it. I don't know. It sounds like Nix plans to draft a WR high (great, now just get 2 more), draft a QB high, and sign no one until September. I'm not optimistic right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I think we're diasgreeing around the edges. Greggo was given a pass in 2001 because there was an understanding that the roster was overhauled. He was not given a pass in 2003 because the team did not improve as much as expected. Same with Donahoe. Given his machinations, the team should have gone to the playoffs at least once in his tenure, and by his end, the roster was fairly weak. Yes, that first year's horrible record plays into the overall W/L record, but there's generally more forgiveness in the first year. I expect that Marrone will be given a mulligan for '13, but a much shortter leash for '14. Even if he goes 2-14 this year, as long as they see signs of positive transition, he'll be forgiven. Case in point - Chuck Knox's/Marv Levy's first years vs Kay Stephenson's/Hank Bullough's first years. They won't go 2-14. Let's not kid ourselves. At worst, they'll finish 5-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If the people running the Bills think that they won't be held accountable for a tank season, they're fools. And everyone here who thinks they won't hold the folks running the show now accountable for a 2-14 season has an astonishing lack of foresight. Trust me, you all will be pointing to the full record 3-4 years down the road. Awful years are never forgotten unless the team truly excels and becomes a SB contender, but that's hardly likely. The bottom line: it's always in a coach and GM's s interest to win as many games as possible from the get-go. But do seasons of 2-5 wins really affect the franchise that negatively if you can promise hype and hope later? 2001 and 2010 were the first years of a rebuilding and everyone knew it. Didn't keep the fans from coming. And when it's clear a rebuilding plan didn't work, like by mid-season 2012, you reinvent yourself with a new HC, hype the GM in waiting, move some deck chairs around and just like that you're new. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think casual fans happy to have a team just like having something new to point to. Brandon's delivering, and if that doesn't work, well, they can do something like get a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Probably a statistical system that could address questions such as, "What are the odds of dialing a wrong number and actually reaching the person you were intending to call?" Now that is some seriously funny stuff right there. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 They won't go 2-14. Let's not kid ourselves. At worst, they'll finish 5-11. Speculating about the record when we don't know who the QB might be seems premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Speculating about the record when we don't know who the QB might be seems premature. Obviously, but we have an offensive player who--WHEN USED CORRECTLY--can score whenever the ball is in his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Corey has been pretty important on special teams and has delivered every time he was called on offense last couple of seasons, so yes, Corey is a player I'd love to have back. Don't get me wrong. I like Corey Mac as well. But there are 50 guys out there that can do what he does for a fraction of the cost. At least on the field. He'd be harder to replace in the locker room. But stripping team leadership in a personnel overhaul is often a part of a new coach's plan. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Obviously, but we have an offensive player who--WHEN USED CORRECTLY--can score whenever the ball is in his hands. I'm imagining now a 5-wides look with Stevie (when healthy) and 4 UDFA scrubs and Wood (when healthy) direct snapping it to Spiller every down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 We jumped on arguably the two best pass rushers possible in last years free agency in the first 48 hours... what was our record? All it did was re affirm to our front office big spending isn't the way to go and honestly it isnt. If I were our GM I would be doing the same thing. Sorry folks I would. My #1 priority would be QB and that is what our guys seemed focused on. Get the draft over with and let the FA's out there realize their huge paydays aren't going to happen and sign a couple during the summer. Also in our scheme which seems to be emphasizing the 3-4 more I would try to move Mario Williams and his stupid contract and place our 2nd available June 1st designation on him. Too much money, too little production and he didn't flourish in a 3-4 in Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'm imagining now a 5-wides look with Stevie (when healthy) and 4 UDFA scrubs and Wood (when healthy) direct snapping it to Spiller every down... Put Spiller wide, direct snap to B. Smith...It's honestly better than what we have right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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