GG Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Expound on that point if you don't mind. Prior to 2001, how many first strike wars has the US waged in its history? Not operations, but wars. How do you go from "undeclared war" to a first strike war? What's your differentiation between a war an an operation, Mr. Clinton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Come In Peace Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 How do you go from "undeclared war" to a first strike war? What's your differentiation between a war an an operation, Mr. Clinton? Scope and congressional definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Expound on that point if you don't mind. Prior to 2001, how many first strike wars has the US waged in its history? Not operations, but wars. Operation...war... Little real difference these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Come In Peace Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Operation...war... Little real difference these days There's a massive difference. Both in consequence and cost. You and Tasker and the others who are killing the guy for signing up to serve without having the foresight to see he'd be immediately tasked with serving in a war that had nothing to do with 9/11 and was the first ever first strike war waged by the United States are being a bit harsh. Not to mention disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 he signed up out of a sense of patriotism and the belief that our leaders would chart a wise and effective course. if that sense and those beliefs are deemed ultimately and permanently foolish, i'd say it's time to call the system a failure. Did he, or did he not, choose to enlist? Expound on that point if you don't mind. Prior to 2001, how many first strike wars has the US waged in its history? Not operations, but wars. We've never had a first strike war. We haven't declared war since WW2. There's a massive difference. Both in consequence and cost. You and Tasker and the others who are killing the guy for signing up to serve without having the foresight to see he'd be immediately tasked with serving in a war that had nothing to do with 9/11 and was the first ever first strike war waged by the United States are being a bit harsh. Not to mention disingenuous. When you sign up for military service, you forfiet your personal positions on the politics involved, and the right to protest. It's part of the contract. Any fool who looks at US military history since Korea and doesn't take shifting and overreaching executive policy into consideration gets exactly what they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I empathize with him- however, it is no different that signing up for a home loan you can't afford then whining that you should be able to do or someone should make you whole... you signed up, you signed up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Come In Peace Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 We've never had a first strike war. We haven't declared war since WW2. This is incorrect information. Desert Storm, Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom were all voted on and funded by Congress. While not formal declarations of war, they were not waged with Executive Powers alone. Now, we can quibble over the semantics, but anything costing over $3 Trillion (and climbing) and over 4,000 American soldiers is not what the Constitution had in mind when determining war powers and is precisely why Congress was called on to vote. When you sign up for military service, you forfiet your personal positions on the politics involved, and the right to protest. It's part of the contract. Any fool who looks at US military history since Korea and doesn't take shifting and overreaching executive policy into consideration gets exactly what they deserve. Theirs is not to reason why, eh? That's cold blooded, homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 not at all. only that to utilize them as cannon fodder in a futile war is. Every war is like that. War sucks. Politicians suck. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Expound on that point if you don't mind. Prior to 2001, how many first strike wars has the US waged in its history? Not operations, but wars. Assuming by idiotic term "first strike," you mean "initiated hostilities," and just off the top of my head... The Revolutionary War. the War of 1812, the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, the Vietnam War...and if you want to get technical about it, US involvement in WWII predated anyone else's hostilities against us. And the only reason Desert Storm wouldn't be on the list is because Hussein decided to attack Khafji first. And there's probably a slew of others that aren't coming to me at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Assuming by idiotic term "first strike," you mean "initiated hostilities," and just off the top of my head... The Revolutionary War. the War of 1812, the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, the Vietnam War...and if you want to get technical about it, US involvement in WWII predated anyone else's hostilities against us. And the only reason Desert Storm wouldn't be on the list is because Hussein decided to attack Khafji first. And there's probably a slew of others that aren't coming to me at the moment. Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Civil War. Didn't include that because...well, yeah, no ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Civil War. What's so civil about war anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 What's so civil about war anyway? That's some deep **** there Axl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Assuming by idiotic term "first strike," you mean "initiated hostilities," and just off the top of my head... The Revolutionary War. the War of 1812, the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, the Vietnam War...and if you want to get technical about it, US involvement in WWII predated anyone else's hostilities against us. And the only reason Desert Storm wouldn't be on the list is because Hussein decided to attack Khafji first. And there's probably a slew of others that aren't coming to me at the moment. Ya think we were the ones initiating hostility in 1812? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Ya think we were the ones initiating hostility in 1812? Yes, we invaded Canada which was a British territory. Any good school kid from WNY knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yes, we invaded Canada which was a British territory. Any good school kid from WNY knows that. Was that the great Sundowner Caper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Ya think we were the ones initiating hostility in 1812? Of course. You're welcome to argue otherwise. If only because I can't wait to laugh at how silly your argument is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Come In Peace Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Assuming by idiotic term "first strike," you mean "initiated hostilities," and just off the top of my head... The Revolutionary War. the War of 1812, the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, the Vietnam War...and if you want to get technical about it, US involvement in WWII predated anyone else's hostilities against us. And the only reason Desert Storm wouldn't be on the list is because Hussein decided to attack Khafji first. And there's probably a slew of others that aren't coming to me at the moment. Revolutionary War doesn't count, we weren't yet a nation. (Finally got Tom on something!) Mexican-American War / Spanish - American War: I'll take your word for it. Vietnam is an interesting example and one I thought about, the Gulf of Tonkin was (staged/fabricated) to justify increasing hostilities and sell the war to the people. Much like WMD in Gulf War 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Revolutionary War doesn't count, we weren't yet a nation. (Finally got Tom on something!) Mexican-American War / Spanish - American War: I'll take your word for it. Vietnam is an interesting example and one I thought about, the Gulf of Tonkin was (staged/fabricated) to justify increasing hostilities and sell the war to the people. Much like WMD in Gulf War 2. So, John Kerry and Hillary Clinton plus a host of other dems and world leaders were all in on the WMD subterfuge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Come In Peace Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 So, John Kerry and Hillary Clinton plus a host of other dems and world leaders were all in on the WMD subterfuge? It takes more than one or two people to lead a nation to war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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