eball Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I do often wonder why Whaley left a successful franchise where he admittedly wasn't going to be GM for a GM apprentice job in Buffalo for someone who isn't the talent evaluator many fans claimed. I think you answered your own question. Has Buddy missed on some picks? Sure has; every GM does. I don't believe any of us know what Whaley thought of some or all of Buddy's picks -- he's been the good soldier, supporting his superiors when called upon as he should.
CodeMonkey Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) haters gonna hate.... I don't know if its hate. There might be something to the saying "better the devil that you know than the devil that you don't" in some cases anyway. The OP poses a fair question to the people who want Nix out ASAP, what makes you assume Whaley will do any better? For example, most if not all of the Jauron haters wanted him out ASAP, and were happy to see Gailey come in assuming he had to be better than Jauron. Gailey had arguably better players to work with and ended up never achieving the lofty season records of Jauron. We can hope that Whaley will be better, and in fact great. But I'm not sure simply the fact that he is "well respected" translates into that he will be. Plus if Brandon et al have so much faith in Whaley, why is Nix apparently still calling the shots? Edited March 19, 2013 by CodeMonkey
JPS Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Nothing better than when someone spells the word "genius" wrong. i have to cop to that. It's great to see others.
chris heff Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I keep hearing he's well-respected around the league. The basis for that however remains a mystery. The only thing he made news for was emailing porn. Well? There you have it!
thebandit27 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Having someone take the time to point out a typo is a little bit better! I normally don't, but that one was too good to pass up.
Meathead Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 he has a nappy black alfred einstein afro and thats good enough for me
John from Riverside Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 That's an awful lot of assumptions you're making. Don't know whether you're right or wrong, and only a few people do on some (those that are in the room). The fact of the matter is that Nix has blundered (IMO) in 2 of his 3 drafts from a talent perspective and 3 out of 3 when strictly viewing QB. We hope that Whaley was dead set against some of the choices made but we just don't know. We can hope that Whaley is a better talent evaluator. We can hope that Whaley values the QB position more than Nix has shown. We can hope that Whaley builds an honest to goodness NFL team. We won't know until he is put in charge if that day ever comes. We hope, but we don't know; just like we didn't know about that guy named Polian when he was given control. Its true.....we dont know any of those things but lets face it......if we DID know....Whaley would have been hired away from us a long time ago as good front office men are very hard to find. - We are taking a chance that Whaley is gonna be better - We are taking a chance that Marrone is gonna be better
Captain Hindsight Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Have you seen his 40 time bringing picks to the podium?
BillsVet Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I think you answered your own question. Has Buddy missed on some picks? Sure has; every GM does. I don't believe any of us know what Whaley thought of some or all of Buddy's picks -- he's been the good soldier, supporting his superiors when called upon as he should. You're extremely adept at conflating the argument. All GM's make mistakes on draft day, but some are worse and as such have teams that reflect this. Is Nix equal to an Ozzie Newsome, Jerry Reese, Ted Thompson, Kevin Colbert, Thomas Dimitroff, John Schneider or Trent Baalke? No, and yet those men have all made mistakes on draft day.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 You're extremely adept at conflating the argument. All GM's make mistakes on draft day, but some are worse and as such have teams that reflect this. Is Nix equal to an Ozzie Newsome, Jerry Reese, Ted Thompson, Kevin Colbert, Thomas Dimitroff, John Schneider or Trent Baalke? No, and yet those men have all made mistakes on draft day. They got their franchise QB, which Nix has failed to do. The franchise QB covers up some bad picks. Nix has had bad picks no doubt but if Buffalo hit rock bottom in 2011 and got Andrew Luck or RG3, he suddenly looks like a much better GM. As much as some people hate to admit it, there are some good players on this team. Whaley comes from a very successful organization. He's hope for people who just don't want to be miserable all the time. If the Bills find a real QB, this entire team looks a ton better.
eball Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 You're extremely adept at conflating the argument. All GM's make mistakes on draft day, but some are worse and as such have teams that reflect this. Is Nix equal to an Ozzie Newsome, Jerry Reese, Ted Thompson, Kevin Colbert, Thomas Dimitroff, John Schneider or Trent Baalke? No, and yet those men have all made mistakes on draft day. And what I said was we don't know what Whaley thinks/thought of some of Buddy's picks. He still saw (and sees) Buffalo as the place he's going to be GM.
thewildrabbit Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I wanted a complete turn over. i know my wants do not matter. If the Bills where serious about change they would have let everyone go from Nix on down. Dave Caldwell wanted to go to Buffalo, but now he is in Jax. It will be interesting to watch the Jags and Bills and see who is better in 3-4 years from now. The Jags and Bills are very similar in their situations. Both need a qb and both have been struggling for years. I personally think Caldwell experience and places he has worked provided him with a better resume. But the Bills have decided to stay in house. I hope Whaley does step up and becomes the next Polian and not the next Nix. The same could have been said a few years back when Mike McCarthy took over the Packers and the Bills beat them in Buffalo with Jauron as HC.... two different teams going in different directions Nothing changes until ownership changes!
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) The same could have been said a few years back when Mike McCarthy took over the Packers and the Bills beat them in Buffalo with Jauron as HC.... two different teams going in different directions Nothing changes until ownership changes! Or You have an owner who realizes his owning a football team does not mean he knows much about football. i look the the Atlanta Falcons when i say this. Once Blank realized he knew very little about the actual process of setting up a winning team and thus 'promoted' McKay to president and they hired Dimitrof as GM, did the Falcons become legit. IF you get the GM right the rest falls into place. Heck look at our own Bills...Wilson owned them while Polian put together the Super Bowl teams. Edited March 19, 2013 by atlbillsfan1975
billsfan_34 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I don't understand the guys who go, "Can't wait, this is gonna be Nix's last year and we'll have Whaley save this franchise." What has Whaley done, ever? Worked for a good team in a lower level position? Since when does that make a difference? Nix may be incompetent. We may need a change at GM. But Bills' fans are the only fans who can talk themselves into changes that are more than likely just as bad. It seems like half the board agrees he's the second coming of Polian, when he's done nothing, ever. How does that make any sense? It's like the "Fire Edwards, Wannstedt is a defensive genius! He'll turn this defense around, he has experience on good teams!" phenomena all over again. We glorify these new guys and then hate them 2 years later when they aren't legendary. Happens to every player on the Bills, too. But, I digress. Can someone explain why they think he'll be great if he calls the shots? Here's the way I see it , and will take a simple approach to it. You can be the best in whatever field your in, however if your place of work is within the confines of dysfunction you never really get to solve the problems unless your given full reign to do so. Right now all football decisions are overseen by Buddy. There's a reason he didn't get a GM gig until he was 70. That's my take for what its worth.
It's in My Blood Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 It all starts at the top. Brandon has taught Whaley just how a dysfunctional franchise is run. From a profit standpoint. It's run pretty darn well. For the Bills that is the bottom line. Winning is not a priority since Brandon arrived. Fire Russ Brandon, and things will change. He is not a football guy by any stretch. Because of him sadly a team that needs all the help it can get. Plays only 7 home games a year. Fire everyone! If we get our hands down, 10 year franchise QB this or next year, threads like this will cease to exist. It all starts with the QB. (uhhh..duh)
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Anyone who claims Nix is terrible conveniently forgets Modrak and Donahoe. You people are ridiculous.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Faith doesn't require reason. You can use logic and consider that the people who have made mostly poor decisions over the years are more likely to have made a poor decision on Whaley than they are to have made a good one, or you can Billieve.
JohnC Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Anyone who claims Nix is terrible conveniently forgets Modrak and Donahoe. You people are ridiculous. They all represent a legacy of mediocrity.
thewildrabbit Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Or You have an owner who realizes his owning a football team does not mean he knows much about football. i look the the Atlanta Falcons when i say this. Once Blank realized he knew very little about the actual process of setting up a winning team and thus 'promoted' McKay to president and they hired Dimitrof as GM, did the Falcons become legit. IF you get the GM right the rest falls into place. Heck look at our own Bills...Wilson owned them while Polian put together the Super Bowl teams. Or you can get unbelievably lucky and hire a great HC with a winning record who comes in and revamps the entire scouting dept by bringing in head scout Norm Pollom with him, probably finding Bill Polian and John Butler in the process. Then turns the franchise on its ear by transforming a team that was so bad they couldn't have pre season games in Buffalo because fans refused to buy tickets, and turns the team into a winner. A man who revitalized the entire Org in every aspect despite the very worst GM in the NFL above him. Meanwhile getting a bunch of no name players to believe in themselves enough to win games. Taking a QB who would hang his head with every bad pass and converting him into a playoff caliber QB. Then when said owner realizes his stadium is now filled again and fans are lining up to buy season tickets he lets this HC walk away! Lets face it, Ralph Wilson got incredibly lucky to hire Chuck Knox in the first place,(HC of the Rams, winner of 5 straight NFC West Champions) and it saved his franchise. He also went on to find Bill Polian / John Butler in the process. But, you can't get that incredibly lucky again by hiring scrub head coaches over and over as the Buffalo Bills, Detroit Lions and various other teams have proven for decades What you fail to realize is...Ralph Wilson has a billion dollar Org that he only wants to make a profit from, and he doesn't care if the team makes the playoffs ever again, or he would have hired another top HC like he did with Chuck Knox. Edited March 19, 2013 by FeartheLosing
FireChan Posted March 19, 2013 Author Posted March 19, 2013 That's an awful lot of assumptions you're making. Don't know whether you're right or wrong, and only a few people do on some (those that are in the room). The fact of the matter is that Nix has blundered (IMO) in 2 of his 3 drafts from a talent perspective and 3 out of 3 when strictly viewing QB. We hope that Whaley was dead set against some of the choices made but we just don't know. We can hope that Whaley is a better talent evaluator. We can hope that Whaley values the QB position more than Nix has shown. We can hope that Whaley builds an honest to goodness NFL team. We won't know until he is put in charge if that day ever comes. We hope, but we don't know; just like we didn't know about that guy named Polian when he was given control. I quoted Beerball because he has the attitude I'd expect to see. The rational, albeit far fetched, hope that he might be better than our guy now. And that makes sense to me. I get we want to change it up, and would give anyone a shot to turn the Bills around. It's these posts I don't understand. Any Nix apologist thread should be "moderated" from the get-go. If the idea behind this thread is to insinuate that we are blindly accepting the unknown, vs. the known entity, that known entity has set us back in his tenure primarily by failing to address a clear need at THE most important position on the field. We could not attract/afford another GM with an established track record. We would have to stretch VERY hard to grab any one else's up-and -coming GM. We have an ownership situation that most GM's do not want to get near. That feeds and compounds the persistent stigma surrounding the quality of the city, weather, social aspects etc etc. Here we are with a widely respected guy, from a culture of success, possesses multiple championship rings, league-wide respected as an up and coming GM candidate in hand....and this thread exists solely to ask what he's done as a GM. THIS....is why we fail as fans. We have a guy that's married to one collegiate division, is a fish out of water in the Northeast, is too old, not that respected in the GM circles and has completely fuk'd us in the QB dept. And someone has to start a thread challenging the incumbent who has the right background as if he is going to do worse. I havent seen it mentioned so i will dispute it here You compare Whaley to Wanny....which is like a polar opposite - Wanny.....old....game has passed him by......spent too much time down in the college ranks and wasnt that great there. His defense worked a zillion years ago - Whaley....is a young up and comer.....fresh blood....worked with a organization while they were putting together super bowl teams See the difference? "Wild successful guy" "up and comer" "league-wide respected up and coming GM" where are these coming from? Who respects him? I haven't heard anything. Where has he been successful? He has more power and pull in Buffalo than he did in Pittsburgh, yet he gets a pass on our mistakes and gets credit for their great personnel choices? I understand hope. I do not understand the ringing endorsement that comes completely out of left-field. This kills you as fans, having this sort of attitude. Not because of our GM choices. Because we scream and pump up these nobodies like they're all gonna be great, undiscovered diamonds in the rough, and if they don't shine, you call for their heads. I hate to reference RF but I found the same situation. I know at least half of the people who hated him by this year were his biggest supporters two years ago. The "he's our guy, pay him now Buddy" crowd did a complete 180 on their opinion. Meanwhile, I, and I'm sure a few other of his defenders didn't have the Brady-level expectations some others did. Which is why I didn't want to eviscerate him like half of this board seemed to want to. Hedge your expectations.
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