Meathead Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 WASHINGTON — In a sweeping self-critique of the party’s 2012 election efforts, Republican leaders on Monday unveiled a set of proposals aimed at convincing younger voters, ethnic minorities and women that they have a home in the party, even if they do not agree with all of its positions. “The report minces no words in telling us that we have to be more inclusive,” Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, said on Monday. “I agree. And as President Reagan said, our 80 percent friend is not our 20 percent enemy.” The national party’s report, called the Growth and Opportunity Project, is the latest contribution to a conversation among conservatives after disappointing losses in the 2012 presidential and Senate elections. Just days earlier, at the Conservative Political Action Conference, activists debated whether the Republican Party should moderate on issues like immigration or stand firm. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/19/us/politics/republicans-plan-overhaul-for-2016-primary-season.html?_r=0 stop paying any attention to attractive functional retards like palin, malkin, and santorum is step one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) stop paying any attention to attractive functional retards like palin, malkin, and santorum is step one said the "independent"......................lol So the advice is to try and out-democrat the democrats..............................................yeah, that'll work. The Republican Elites’ Vision of Reform Ramesh Ponnuru The conventional wisdom among Republican elites about the election congealed seemingly the instant Mitt Romney lost. It was that the party needed to tone down its social-issues talk, embrace comprehensive immigration reform, improve its get-out-the-vote operation, highlight more nonwhite and female spokespersons, shorten the presidential primaries, and take greater control over the primary debates. These recommendations come naturally to Republican elites. Compared to rank-and-file Republicans, they are more likely to favor same-sex marriage and comprehensive immigration reform on principle, and those who are opposed to one or both generally don’t care much about the issues. They don’t, however, tend to have any major problems with the Republican economic agenda and do not believe it needs to be rethought in any serious way. The Republican report reflects this elite conventional wisdom perfectly, just perfectly. That doesn’t mean everything in the report is wrong. I’m inclined to think its suggested reforms of the primary process would be marginally helpful for conservatism. And I have nothing against highlighting Republicans who aren’t white men. The report does not, however, engage in the thorough data-driven analysis of what has gone wrong for Republicans that the party needs. Take the most explicit policy recommendation the report makes: that Republicans embrace comprehensive immigration reform. The report doesn’t even try to demonstrate that this step would win the party more voters than it loses–which, you might think, is pretty important when political advice is being handed out. It ignores all of the political arguments made by critics of comprehensive reform, let alone the policy arguments. The fact that Hispanics tend to be more supportive of Obamacare than white voters, for example, goes unmentioned. The blinkered approach taken by this report is going to limit its effectiveness at persuading Republicans, even on the points where it’s right. . Edited March 18, 2013 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The biggest challenge for the GOP??? Communicating their ideas and principles in short, feel good snippets that ring true in the heads of people with minute attention spans.... If you think about it, Conservatism is about preserving traditional limited scope of Federal Power, or, reducing that scope. Most Amercians have only known the Government we have today, the big one with its hand in almost every sector, seciton and seat in American Life... there is belief that Government is the Lever in which we solve problems in this country... in some sense, Government is the preferred solution tool (in a way, Conventioned Wisdom might say a Central Planning method is most effective, althought empirically we know that is not true)... so it is really hard to convince a population of people who are unsure that less, cutting, smaller services who already have a short attention span that less is better... its not a sexy message, its practical and asks people for sacrifice.... we don't like to sacrifice, its why we put everyitng on credit, why can't we have it all... Democrats have it easier, their message is one of hope and programs and services and expansions of benefits to the old, poor, slow, discriminated against, etc.... it feels good to most people to want to help those people with Programs... so the message is we have the answers, vote for us and we got your back... Republicans can stick to thier principles, but they need to convince Americans that less will in turn produce more... good luck with that, what time is American Idol on? What were we talking about, anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) The biggest challenge for the GOP??? Communicating their ideas and principles in short, feel good snippets that ring true in the heads of people with minute attention spans.... Correct B, but here's the joker in the deck. Poll: Majority Back Republican Ideas Until They Hear that the Ideas Came From Republicans. Thanks to the "demonization" strategy over the past decade (or so) by the democrats (and a very willing media) Dems - "we can't get people's support by telling them what we want to do, so lets just attack, and attack and misrepresent the other guy" Works like a charm with the low information voters, and sadly some here on this board. . The direct link to The Hill article; http://thehill.com/polls/288641-hill-poll-voters-prefer-gop-budget-ideas-but-dislike-republican-party-#ixzz2NvjegErJ Hill Poll: Voters prefer Republican budget ideas, but dislike GOP Notably, many respondents who identified themselves as Democrats actually supported key Republican proposals, according to The Hill poll. Just 44 percent of Democrats said budget deficits should be reduced mostly by raising taxes, while slightly fewer, 40 percent, said balance should be achieved mostly by reining in spending. Edited March 18, 2013 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Come In Peace Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The biggest challenge for the GOP??? Communicating their ideas and principles in short, feel good snippets that ring true in the heads of people with minute attention spans.... If you think about it, Conservatism is about preserving traditional limited scope of Federal Power, or, reducing that scope. Most Amercians have only known the Government we have today, the big one with its hand in almost every sector, seciton and seat in American Life... there is belief that Government is the Lever in which we solve problems in this country... in some sense, Government is the preferred solution tool (in a way, Conventioned Wisdom might say a Central Planning method is most effective, althought empirically we know that is not true)... so it is really hard to convince a population of people who are unsure that less, cutting, smaller services who already have a short attention span that less is better... its not a sexy message, its practical and asks people for sacrifice.... we don't like to sacrifice, its why we put everyitng on credit, why can't we have it all... Democrats have it easier, their message is one of hope and programs and services and expansions of benefits to the old, poor, slow, discriminated against, etc.... it feels good to most people to want to help those people with Programs... so the message is we have the answers, vote for us and we got your back... Republicans can stick to thier principles, but they need to convince Americans that less will in turn produce more... good luck with that, what time is American Idol on? What were we talking about, anyway.... I like your premise and think there's a lot of truth to it. But it's an easy out and lets the biggest culprit off the hook, at least to me. The reason for our ever diminishing attention spans is directly tied to the corporatization of big media and the public's ever increasing awareness of media bias. The easiest way to get the mob's attention has always been and continues to be through fear. So if you don't have a sexy message you can sell in a 24 hour news cycle, you go negative because conflict always sells. But fear not. Big Media's days are numbered and they know it. And when they're gone, I believe that the public's attention span and overall intelligence will skyrocket. Then again, I'm an optimist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 But fear not. Big Media's days are numbered and they know it. And when they're gone, I believe that the public's attention span and overall intelligence will skyrocket. Then again, I'm an optimist. A bit more than optimism in this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Come In Peace Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 A bit more than optimism in this one... Probably with the later part but not the first. Big Media is dying a quick and painful death. The internet isn't going away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Probably with the later part but not the first. Big Media is dying a quick and painful death. The internet isn't going away. What is "big media" to you? And what is "the Internet" and why in God's name does "the Internet" heighten people's attention span and overall intelligence? I'm just curious btw not trying to defend any particular media group but I find it hard to believe what I think you are saying is as likely as you seem to think it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 said the "independent"......................lol So the advice is to try and out-democrat the democrats..............................................yeah, that'll work. The Republican Elites’ Vision of Reform Ramesh Ponnuru The conventional wisdom among Republican elites about the election congealed seemingly the instant Mitt Romney lost. It was that the party needed to tone down its social-issues talk, embrace comprehensive immigration reform, improve its get-out-the-vote operation, highlight more nonwhite and female spokespersons, shorten the presidential primaries, and take greater control over the primary debates. These recommendations come naturally to Republican elites. Compared to rank-and-file Republicans, they are more likely to favor same-sex marriage and comprehensive immigration reform on principle, and those who are opposed to one or both generally don’t care much about the issues. They don’t, however, tend to have any major problems with the Republican economic agenda and do not believe it needs to be rethought in any serious way. The Republican report reflects this elite conventional wisdom perfectly, just perfectly. That doesn’t mean everything in the report is wrong. I’m inclined to think its suggested reforms of the primary process would be marginally helpful for conservatism. And I have nothing against highlighting Republicans who aren’t white men. The report does not, however, engage in the thorough data-driven analysis of what has gone wrong for Republicans that the party needs. Take the most explicit policy recommendation the report makes: that Republicans embrace comprehensive immigration reform. The report doesn’t even try to demonstrate that this step would win the party more voters than it loses–which, you might think, is pretty important when political advice is being handed out. It ignores all of the political arguments made by critics of comprehensive reform, let alone the policy arguments. The fact that Hispanics tend to be more supportive of Obamacare than white voters, for example, goes unmentioned. The blinkered approach taken by this report is going to limit its effectiveness at persuading Republicans, even on the points where it’s right. . so now you're fighting with the republican elites...and i suppose the majority of dems are elite, as well. if you represent a majority of the country, you're not representing an elite position, by definition. seems like some of the party is reading the tea leaves and some are blissfully ignorant. i really hope the clairvoyant repubs win out. i think they will. i might even be able to vote republican again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 so now you're fighting with the republican elites...and i suppose the majority of dems are elite, as well. if you represent a majority of the country, you're not representing an elite position, by definition. seems like some of the party is reading the tea leaves and some are blissfully ignorant. i really hope the clairvoyant repubs win out. i think they will. i might even be able to vote republican again. there is really nothing "elite" about some of most cited problem issues though...that's the thing...it's really not elite to want to reform immigration nor is it elite to think gay people can get hitched or really even that reasonable abortion scenarios should not be illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) seems like some of the party is reading the tea leaves and some are blissfully ignorant. its been brewing for a while but the humiliating virtual landslide loss to a very weak incumbant has really forced the issue. and youre correct - on one side you finally have the moderate intelligent conservatives emerging to try to wrest control from the other side, the extreme no-nothing cartoon buffoons that dont know how to do anything but market themselves to the jerry springer electorate segment i mean, hell, when you have a sychophant like sir karl ridiculing you, you really should take the clue youve hit rock bottom i really hope the clairvoyant repubs win out. i think they will. i might even be able to vote republican again. in one of these cycles very soon they will have to. the republicans are staring at another eleven years of democrat presidents, and just lost seats in both houses despite a predominantly failed democrat presidency. thats really a stunning rebuke of how the country views these republicans when you stop and think about it. if they dont accept reality soon they are looking at total democrat control as soon as the very next mid-terms. and if they continue on with the rediculous tack they currently are stubbornly sticking to, that democrat dominance may last a while there certainly hasnt been a party more dysfunctional during my lifetime. thats rather incredible and shows how far they have to go to get back to any form of respectability. i too hope they figure it out, we need some semblance of quality balance in our govt Edited March 19, 2013 by Meathead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 its been brewing for a while but the humiliating virtual landslide loss to a very weak incumbant has really forced the issue. and youre correct - on one side you finally have the moderate intelligent conservatives emerging to try to wrest control from the other side, the extreme no-nothing cartoon buffoons that dont know how to do anything but market themselves to the jerry springer electorate segment i mean, hell, when you have a sychophant like sir karl ridiculing you, you really should take the clue youve hit rock bottom Spoken like a true independent who voted for McCain and Romney. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Spoken like a true independent who voted for McCain and Romney. :lol: If only those republicans could be like democrats I'd vote for them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 said the "independent"......................lol Spoken like a true independent who voted for McCain and Romney. i wasnt going to respond this trash but it really needs to be said this is exactly whats wrong with that party right now. here we have a very committed, involved, and intelligent voter (me) who actively supports whats good for the republican party and the country. this person has voted for more republicans than democrats for president, including the last two elections and yet thats not good enough further, he gets ridiculed, as if the facts of his voting and debating pattern arent authentic this is exactly why that party is floundering, bc people like these are the voices being heard most often. the palins and the malkins and the santorums get the air time. numbnuts like these two posters continue on and on with their 'independant lol' shtick. but the real debate never happens. the negotiation of ideas we desperately need never comes about because the buffoons of the movement are promoting some kind of ridiculous purity standards based on the most simplistic of alleged 'ideas' if i was really a partisan i wouldnt want the republicans to evolve. i would be absolutely delighted if they just stayed exactly on their current course. it would be like trying to dig out of their massive hole with a tonka backloader thats obviously not me but as long as people like you and your insulting to the intelligence 'leaders' keep plying this ultra right extreme purity test, thats exactly whats going to happen. and thats really bad for this country btw - it wasnt mccain and romney, it was paul and huntsman. mccain had my vote until he selected the big haired bozo and then started pandering the straight talk express right into liartown. i did hold my nose and seriously consider romney, but it didnt take long for that stench to overwhelm me to the point there was not a chance. he was so bad that even the generally dumb electorate could see how horrible the country would have been under him. not that it was that hard, but at least we got that right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 i wasnt going to respond this trash but it really needs to be said this is exactly whats wrong with that party right now. here we have a very committed, involved, and intelligent voter (me) who actively supports whats good for the republican party and the country. this person has voted for more republicans than democrats for president, including the last two elections and yet thats not good enough further, he gets ridiculed, as if the facts of his voting and debating pattern arent authentic this is exactly why that party is floundering, bc people like these are the voices being heard most often. the palins and the malkins and the santorums get the air time. numbnuts like these two posters continue on and on with their 'independant lol' shtick. but the real debate never happens. the negotiation of ideas we desperately need never comes about because the buffoons of the movement are promoting some kind of ridiculous purity standards based on the most simplistic of alleged 'ideas' if i was really a partisan i wouldnt want the republicans to evolve. i would be absolutely delighted if they just stayed exactly on their current course. it would be like trying to dig out of their massive hole with a tonka backloader thats obviously not me but as long as people like you and your insulting to the intelligence 'leaders' keep plying this ultra right extreme purity test, thats exactly whats going to happen. and thats really bad for this country btw - it wasnt mccain and romney, it was paul and huntsman. mccain had my vote until he selected the big haired bozo and then started pandering the straight talk express right into liartown. i did hold my nose and seriously consider romney, but it didnt take long for that stench to overwhelm me to the point there was not a chance. he was so bad that even the generally dumb electorate could see how horrible the country would have been under him. not that it was that hard, but at least we got that right Holy Christ. Even I'm more humble than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Been saying it for a few years now...biggest problem is attitude. Most people not auto-pilot GOP voters find the CPAC "attitude" to be ridiculous ... a few of the meaningless policy points regarding social issues and whatnot are just not winners and neither is immigration that is true...and IMO large cuts right now would be the wrong move but I doubt that it couldn't be sold by a talented politician (although lesser cuts than some on the right want) so honestly as contentious as the budget battle is to politicos....it really is just simple...don't appear to be an obnoxious rednecks mixed w/ fat-cat puppeteers...optics of that are bad. Politics is the furthest thing from policy. Somehow the GOP hasn't figured that out yet. Policy arguments are great to me and most of us (even though I disagree with many of you) however...anyone with a brain knows that the entire thing is a popularity contest as far the WH is concerned and you have to be attractive. The truth is, at the instant moment anyway, the Dems are more willing to take a guy that may or may not give them pricks or slight stabs in the back at some point. A good portion of the GOP want a God-like ultra-conservative to come save them and that has and will get them nothing but disappointment...unhappy forever....politicians make deals....officials serve a diverse country not a party...one party is slightly more able to win the WH right now as a result. Edited March 19, 2013 by SameOldBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Holy Christ. Even I'm more humble than this. No, you're not more humble than this, but are certainly not as close to John Nash as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 dont hate mc cuz im pwngful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 it was paul and huntsman Of course it was Huntsman. The one true Republican who would make every Democrat vote Republican. Here's a tip, Skippy. The GOP has some growing and adjusting and rebranding to do, but I can say with 100% certainty that the roadmap to a successful return will not begin with input from guys like who who insist they're independent, vote for the most conservative liberal there is, and then shout how they always vote Republican. Guys like you are the same guys I run into from to time who see me wearing a Bills jersey and saying something like "Oh, I used to be a BIlls fan before I became a NE* fan, but let me tell you what's wrong with the Bills." When Barack Obama gets done butchering the liberal brand, you'll be standing around in six years telling liberals how you were really a Huntsman Democrat before Obama made the left too radical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) The GOP has some growing and adjusting and rebranding to do, but I can say with 100% certainty that the roadmap to a successful return will not begin with input from guys like who who insist they're independent, vote for the most conservative liberal there is, and then shout how they always vote Republican. well, you're half-way to agreeing with me. which is 50 percent closer than where you were before november. jw Edited March 19, 2013 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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