Lost 8 Starters, Replaced 1

[ganesh]

Nothing against you in particular because I see this all the time and I believe it is almost never true.

It would be true only if the roster immediately after the cuts/losses is better than it was before. Which is rarely the case and clearly not this time.

 

Yes, those players for the most part were pedestrian. But they were the Bills best players for the most part. As of now they leave holes that have not been filled, much less filled by someone better. I'm not saying that by the start of camp they won't be filled with better players, but as of now the Bills have not managed to do so.

 

So, it clearly is not addition by subtraction.

 

When the difference between the depth player and the deemed starter is marginal, then the team is better of giving the chance to a more hungrier player. Chan Gailey never gave a shot to folks who were on the bench or waiting for their chance. Also, the "starter" that we have cut all would have cost us significant dollars.

 

May be the Bills coaching staff feels that they do have those 'better' players already on the team. They must think that Searcy is better than Wilson, Easley is better in Jones, Sheppard and Bradham are better than the guys they cut and so on. Who knows...We ahve to give benefit to this new staff.

 

Finally, the market is indeed proving that these guys are not starters as none of them have been signed and given a starting job on the platter.

Edited March 19, 2013 by ganesh

[DukeyBomb]

I'm not sure what you're looking at. I see downgrades at every single one of those positions except for possibly cornerback and OLB. Maybe some guys will surprise me and maybe they pickup a starter or two in the draft but there's no way that they are going to be better talent wise than last season. Maybe they will be better coached and win the same number of games but I think it's more likely that with less talent and a new system on offense and defense next season will go into the tank.

 

Really? I'd have to emphatically disagree. How many times were we chiming for us to replace Fitz with Jackson last year? I'd have to say right now a rookie qb may not be better but it wouldn't be much worse. So yeah you might have got me there.

 

If we added DHB or heck even Hixon in Free Agency, we've already upgraded over DONALD JONES. Nelson was beyond avg and another year under Grahams belt should do him wonders IMO.

 

Searcy was starting to take over last years SS spot as it was, so I believe it's not a stretch to say that he could even upgrade it.

 

So what positions were you saying are getting downgraded?

[Doc]

Really? I'd have to emphatically disagree. How many times were we chiming for us to replace Fitz with Jackson last year? I'd have to say right now a rookie qb may not be better but it wouldn't be much worse. So yeah you might have got me there.

 

If we added DHB or heck even Hixon in Free Agency, we've already upgraded over DONALD JONES. Nelson was beyond avg and another year under Grahams belt should do him wonders IMO.

 

Searcy was starting to take over last years SS spot as it was, so I believe it's not a stretch to say that he could even upgrade it.

 

So what positions were you saying are getting downgraded?

Exactly. I don't see any downgrades except for Levitre.

[Niagara Bill]

Counting Rinehart as a swing guard, we lost 8 Starters, and have swapped Barnett for Lawson. Assuming D Searcy takes over for Wilson, and TJ Graham takes over starting #3 WR pos. We Still need a #1 QB, #2 WR, Starting LG, #2 G and #2 DE. MArk Anderson was showing to be a situational Pass Rusher and was horrendous vs the run last year, i would count him as our #3 DE even though hes paid like a first stringer. We have 5 Glaring Starter holes 6 if you count another starting MLB for Pettine's Mixed defense which will include a 3-4. Not looking good with only 6 draft picks and Buddy Nix snoozing through free agency.

 

Players who have departed

• • Quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick
  
• • Wide receiver Donald Jones (New England Patriots)
  
• • Wide receiver David Nelson
  
• • Guard Andy Levitre (Tennessee Titans)
  
• • Guard Chad Rinehart (San Diego Chargers)
  
• • Defensive end Chris Kelsay (retired)
  
• • Defensive end Shawne Merriman (retired)
  
• • Linebacker Nick Barnett
  
• • Cornerback Terrence McGee
  
• • Safety George Wilson (Tennessee Titans)
  

http://blogs.buffalo...ves-so-far.html

 

Exactly right which is why we should all be upset with the Levitre situation. We have so many holes to fill and yet we created another. He was worth the money and we blew it. We draft poorly but when get a good one we say bye bye....when is this FO going to get it.....13 years and counting

[DrDawkinstein]

QB was already a hole to fill even when Fitz was on the roster.

WR was already a hole to fill even with Jones and Nelson on the roster.

OLB was already a hole to fill even with Barnett on the roster

DB was a smaller hole to fill even with McGee and Wilson on the roster. But we're already used to McGee not playing, and Wilson wasnt even starting by the end of last season.

Any FO with half a brain (and yes, I give that to ours) knew both Merriman and Kelsay were nearing the end of their careers.

 

The only true loss was Levitre, and there wasnt much the Bills could have done about it. Not at that price. And even with the loss of Rhieneihardt, worst case scenario, we can try Hairston at LG. A solution may already be on the roster, meaning all the FO would need to find is more OL depth. Something they have proven to actually be capable of.

 

So we arent really in any worse position than we were a month ago. It's still not a great position to be in, but not much has changed. The needs are mostly the same....

 

1. QB, this is lightyears ahead of any other need.

2a/2b. WR and OLB (going into the offseason I figured we'd draft one and sign one of each)

3. DB depth

4. Maybe a TE?

5. DE depth

6. OL depth

 

Im not saying we are poised to make a Super Bowl run, but I dont get why people say "We have soooo many holes to fill". We could make a big improvement just by adding the right 4-6 players.

[Cash]

I hear the Bills are planning on playing their cap space at left guard.

[BuffBill]

Counting Rinehart as a swing guard, we lost 8 Starters, and have swapped Barnett for Lawson. Assuming D Searcy takes over for Wilson, and TJ Graham takes over starting #3 WR pos. We Still need a #1 QB, #2 WR, Starting LG, #2 G and #2 DE. MArk Anderson was showing to be a situational Pass Rusher and was horrendous vs the run last year, i would count him as our #3 DE even though hes paid like a first stringer. We have 5 Glaring Starter holes 6 if you count another starting MLB for Pettine's Mixed defense which will include a 3-4. Not looking good with only 6 draft picks and Buddy Nix snoozing through free agency.

 

Players who have departed

• • Quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick
  
• • Wide receiver Donald Jones (New England Patriots)
  
• • Wide receiver David Nelson
  
• • Guard Andy Levitre (Tennessee Titans)
  
• • Guard Chad Rinehart (San Diego Chargers)
  
• • Defensive end Chris Kelsay (retired)
  
• • Defensive end Shawne Merriman (retired)
  
• • Linebacker Nick Barnett
  
• • Cornerback Terrence McGee
  
• • Safety George Wilson (Tennessee Titans)
  

http://blogs.buffalo...ves-so-far.html

 

Welcome to Buddy Ball-sit back and do mostly nothing. Someone needs to tell him that the ticket takers, beer vendors, janitors at the Ralph and the coaching staff doesn't count against the salary cap.

Edited March 19, 2013 by BuffBill

[DrDawkinstein]

Welcome to Buddy Ball-sit back and do mostly nothing. Someone needs to tell him that the ticket takers, beer vendors, janitors at the Ralph and the coaching staff doesn't count against the salary cap.

 

Thats a flat out lie.

[vincec]

Im not saying we are poised to make a Super Bowl run, but I dont get why people say "We have soooo many holes to fill". We could make a big improvement just by adding the right 4-6 players.

I think you are seriously underestimating the difficulty of adding 4-6 quality starters including a franchise QB in one season. You could probably pick any team in the NFL and turn them into a playoff team if you added 4-6 starters and a good QB so that's no great litmus test.

Edited March 19, 2013 by vincec

[FLFan]

 

I think you are seriously underestimating the difficulty of adding 4-6 quality starters including a franchise QB in one season. You could probably pick any team in the NFL and turn them into a playoff team if you added 4-6 starters and a good QB so that's no great accomplishment.

He is not saying they need 4 - 6 starters. To repeat, the only starter gone so far is Levitre who made no sense at 8 m per year no matter how much people want to cry about it.

[BringBackFergy]

He is not saying they need 4 - 6 starters. To repeat, the only starter gone so far is Levitre who made no sense at 8 m per year no matter how much people want to cry about it.

Stop being reasonable and thinking with your brain! If you keep this up, we'll report you to the moderators. Consider this a warning.

[Fan in Chicago]

He is not saying they need 4 - 6 starters. To repeat, the only starter gone so far is Levitre who made no sense at 8 m per year no matter how much people want to cry about it.

And what exactly are we doing with the money we spent ? I know it is early in FA but the lack of movement besides Lawson is concerning. Levitre's was a hole that did not need to be created. The money saved is far less than the service we lost. If we use up a pick to replace it, that would have been one we could have used to fill a much more needy hole.

 

No matter how we explain away being net negative in the personnel department, the fact is that we are poorer and unless there is action soon we will have a depleted corps of players. Sure, many of them deserved to be cut. But maybe Kelsay, Wilson would have been depth if we found better ones. Nelson was still a #3 or #4 at worst.

 

SOme say analytics, some say patience. I see the continuing pattern of inaction followed by selling us on hope of some bargain bin FA and draft picks. For once, I would like more action on the FA front (ya I am not ignoring MarioW). Would i have killed our FO to sign a few out of Levitre, Nelson, Vasquez, Ellerbe, Dustin Keller, Amendola ?

 

The reconciliation and patience with Nix and co. is unbelievable seeing what we have over the past 3 years. Yet, many here somehow think it will be different this time.

[Malazan]

I don't drink rotten milk because it's the only milk I have. You don't keep making bad decisions because you're in a bad position. It's like saying, I only have rotten milk, so I will pay you $1000 for your gallon of milk when you only have $4 for milk.

 

It's Kobayashi time!

 

SOme say analytics, some say patience. I see the continuing pattern of inaction followed by selling us on hope of some bargain bin FA and draft picks. For once, I would like more action on the FA front (ya I am not ignoring MarioW). Would i have killed our FO to sign a few out of Levitre, Nelson, Vasquez, Ellerbe, Dustin Keller, Amendola ?

 

The approach of singing a bunch of FA players makes for excitement, but generally ends the same. What is this pattern of inaction? The Bills prior to this season have been active. You can argue the results, but I'm confused by your belief that they have been inactive.

Edited March 19, 2013 by jeremy2020

[FLFan]

 

Stop being reasonable and thinking with your brain! If you keep this up, we'll report you to the moderators. Consider this a warning.

Sorry - don't know what's was thinking. I will try in the future to get my mind in the proper ranting frame.

[Like A Mofo]

IT'S ON LIKE A MOFO!!!!!!!!!

[Fan in Chicago]

I don't drink rotten milk because it's the only milk I have. You don't keep making bad decisions because you're in a bad position. It's like saying, I only have rotten milk, so I will pay you $1000 for your gallon of milk when you only have $4 for milk.

 

It's Kobayashi time!

 

 

 

The approach of singing a bunch of FA players makes for excitement, but generally ends the same. What is this pattern of inaction? The Bills prior to this season have been active. You can argue the results, but I'm confused by your belief that they have been inactive.

 

Hang on. Are you questioning the basic premise of free agency ? Teams do not improve by getting highly coveted free agents ?

 

They have been less active than a team with so many needs should have been. Frankly, last offseason brought in two big names in Williams and Anderson. In retrospect, Williams may have been a marketing ploy for a highly disgruntled fan base. Sure it worked, and we were happy but net result was that it bought the FO another year of peace with the fans. This year we will be forced to draft a QB high whether or not the FO believes that he is the long term answer. That will buy them another year. IMHO, we should have traded for Alex Smith, kept Levitre and gone after LBs and WRs in FA/draft. Then gone after the long term QB in next year's draft

 

We needed to go after more impact players wherever we could find them. Other teams filled holes, yet we preached patience and keep selling hope as if it is a strategy

Edited March 19, 2013 by Fan in Chicago

[Like A Mofo]

Truth is 6 win seasons stunt the growth of an organization. Look at the NBA: Teams like the Milwaukee Bucks tread water because they never seem to get a pick high enough at the right time.

 

The Bills have needed 1-15 0-16 for a few years now.

 

That 'wish' is coming true in 2013.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Like A Mofo

[Malazan]

Hang on. Are you questioning the basic premise of free agency ? Teams do not improve by getting highly coveted free agents ?

 

Name the top free agents that have been worth the money in the past five years or so...I'm also how agreeing that Mario Williams, the top free agent, was not worth the money helps your point?

Edited March 19, 2013 by jeremy2020

[vincec]

He is not saying they need 4 - 6 starters. To repeat, the only starter gone so far is Levitre who made no sense at 8 m per year no matter how much people want to cry about it.

What are you talking about?

 

Starters gone: Fitzpatrick, Levitre, Barnett, Wilson, Jones & Nelson (if you figure the 3 WR formation as the Bills base). Add to that the fact that Chandler is hurt and may miss the early part of the season. Maybe the Bills can improve on these but the improvements are not on the roster right now. I see lots of posts talking about drafting replacements but you can't draft a starting QB, WR, OG, ILB and TE in one draft.

 

What's the point of not resigning these guys if they aren't going to spend the money on FAs? Saving it for retirement?

Edited March 19, 2013 by vincec

[Stussy109]

Did the OP really start off saying essentially...."counting this backup as a starter....."

 

Under Gailey if you actually went to a game or paid attention to a game, he rotated players on both lines frequently, Hairston/Pears Hairston/Glenn. Rhinehart being the 6th man off the bench if any guard or center got nicked, played a lot last year. Same thing on D-Line, there were 2 waves... Even the safeties rotated.