soccer - USMNT in the hex

[The Big Cat]

My wife works for USSF at their headquarters in Chicago, so I stay current.

 

My wife also had to take something of a pay cut with Klinsmann was brought on board, so I'm watching his ass like a hawk.

 

That said, when a 0-0 game is a "win" for our team (which I understand), it does nothing to advance the sport's popularity. My wife works not for the national team, but with the development academy, so growing the foundation of our national team/program is something with which she's directly involved/invested.

 

As well as the team has progressed under Klinsmann--and they definitely have--watching them can be nearly as soul-strangling as watching the Trent Edwards-led Bills offense of yore.

 

Simply put, our country's soccer players don't spend enough time a ball at their feet, and it shows. Our touches are amateur, and when you go from watching our team to watching the Euros, it seems as though the chasm may never be bridged. And in truth--based not only on my own observations, but also what my wife deals with on a daily basis--we're likely forever entrenched as a "developing" soccer nation.

[meazza]

My wife works for USSF at their headquarters in Chicago, so I stay current.

 

My wife also had to take something of a pay cut with Klinsmann was brought on board, so I'm watching his ass like a hawk.

 

That said, when a 0-0 game is a "win" for our team (which I understand), it does nothing to advance the sport's popularity. My wife works not for the national team, but with the development academy, so growing the foundation of our national team/program is something with which she's directly involved/invested.

 

As well as the team has progressed under Klinsmann--and they definitely have--watching them can be nearly as soul-strangling as watching the Trent Edwards-led Bills offense of yore.

 

Simply put, our country's soccer players don't spend enough time a ball at their feet, and it shows. Our touches are amateur, and when you go from watching our team to watching the Euros, it seems as though the chasm may never be bridged. And in truth--based not only on my own observations, but also what my wife deals with on a daily basis--we're likely forever entrenched as a "developing" soccer nation.

 

I've been watching soccer intensively since the end of the 90's and I'll say that the US quality of players has increased. Obviously as with any sports, results will be volatile because the quality of the opponents is always getting stronger as well but with the increase in popularity in the MLS and the increase in interest by fans, the sport should grow over the long term.

 

Maybe I'm a bit biased because Bradley plays in Roma and he has obviously had the luxury of learning from one of the best in the game in De Rossi but I really do think the Americans will get there. That being said, it is a difficult tournament and it was only 10 years ago that Spain was irrelevant. Things can very easily change.

[KD in CA]

I'm becoming increasingly bored with the commercial aspects of the other big sports. So so many commercials. Plus all the instant replay reviews that take forever. The commentary being entirely focused on whatever stupid narrative the network is pushing ("Is Tom Brady the best ever?" "Ray Lewis the wise old leader." "Peyton Manning, boy he really keeps 'em guessing with all those genius audibles." "Check out Ryan Fitzpatrick's wedding band. He went to Harvard, ya know. He's really smart."

 

All the stupid explosions and jock rock that goes along with it all. The refs taking 10 minutes to figure out what happened and then giving a convoluted, long winded explanation to the fans. Gets annoying. The false starts. The last-second timeout to ice the kicker. etc...

Thanks for that thouroughly depressing post. All true. TV (plus the absurd obsession with replay) is killing football.

 

And don't forget the endless parade of meaningless stats splashed on the screen along with the stupid explosions and sh---y jock rock.

[PTS]

I've been watching soccer intensively since the end of the 90's and I'll say that the US quality of players has increased. Obviously as with any sports, results will be volatile because the quality of the opponents is always getting stronger as well but with the increase in popularity in the MLS and the increase in interest by fans, the sport should grow over the long term.

 

Maybe I'm a bit biased because Bradley plays in Roma and he has obviously had the luxury of learning from one of the best in the game in De Rossi but I really do think the Americans will get there. That being said, it is a difficult tournament and it was only 10 years ago that Spain was irrelevant. Things can very easily change.

I'll echo your thoughts. The USMNT has come A LONG way and while it may never become like Brazil, I truly believe it can be a consistent top 10 nation.

 

Michael Bradley is a great example that shows we can produce world class skill. I would say Clint Dempsey is also in that boat and Stuart Holden was well on his way before his injuries.

 

Keep producing those type of players while mixing in American-workhorses like Donovan and Zusi and I think that chasm will be bridged sooner than later.

[The Big Cat]

I've been watching soccer intensively since the end of the 90's and I'll say that the US quality of players has increased. Obviously as with any sports, results will be volatile because the quality of the opponents is always getting stronger as well but with the increase in popularity in the MLS and the increase in interest by fans, the sport should grow over the long term.

 

Maybe I'm a bit biased because Bradley plays in Roma and he has obviously had the luxury of learning from one of the best in the game in De Rossi but I really do think the Americans will get there. That being said, it is a difficult tournament and it was only 10 years ago that Spain was irrelevant. Things can very easily change.

I'll echo your thoughts. The USMNT has come A LONG way and while it may never become like Brazil, I truly believe it can be a consistent top 10 nation.

 

Michael Bradley is a great example that shows we can produce world class skill. I would say Clint Dempsey is also in that boat and Stuart Holden was well on his way before his injuries.

 

Keep producing those type of players while mixing in American-workhorses like Donovan and Zusi and I think that chasm will be bridged sooner than later.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't have written what I did in haste. Because I agree, they have definitely come a long way. But I think it's unrealistic to expect the same level of progress moving forward.

 

There are two things that are limiting our country's talent floor: attrition and repetitions.

 

Attrition: I don't know what the precise statistics are but something like 90% of kids who play sports in America play soccer...until they're 12, then the number plummets to something like 30%. Now, don't quote me, I've got Ms. Tac Gib verifying that right now.

 

Repetition: even the young soccer players who are devoted to playing don't get NEARLY the practice hours that the youth in other nation's get.

 

You really can't have both problems going at once because they only serve to compound one another, but it's what my wife's department is up against when we try and tailor our training and development to match those so-called "top 10" countries.

 

That's why I specifically mentioned touches. Firstly, we're comparatively terrible at controlling the ball, and secondly, our players simply don't have the repetitions that their competition does, so it's to be expected.

 

It's sort of an inescapable spiral...

Edited March 27, 2013 by taC giB ehT

[meazza]

Perhaps I shouldn't have written what I did in haste. Because I agree, they have definitely come a long way. But I think it's unrealistic to expect the same level of progress moving forward.

 

There are two things that are limiting our country's talent floor: attrition and repetitions.

 

Attrition: I don't know what the precise statistics are but something like 90% of kids who play sports in America play soccer...until they're 12, then the number plummets to something like 30%. Now, don't quote me, I've got Ms. Tac Gib verifying that right now.

 

 

That's true but the MLS is a great league that is growing. I'm actually following it now as the Montreal Impact is becoming a decent team with some decent players. Obviously the most talented athletes are better off trying to make it into the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL but you still have a population of 250 million which leaves place in case the MLS grows further.

[The Big Cat]

That's true but the MLS is a great league that is growing. I'm actually following it now as the Montreal Impact is becoming a decent team with some decent players. Obviously the most talented athletes are better off trying to make it into the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL but you still have a population of 250 million which leaves place in case the MLS grows further.

 

Right, the MLS is definitely growing, too. But if we want our national players to be worth a damn, they gotta go play in Europe.

[meazza]

Right, the MLS is definitely growing, too. But if we want our national players to be worth a damn, they gotta go play in Europe.

 

Well it's a good start with Bradley playing in the most exciting team in Italy

[The Big Cat]

Well it's a good start with Bradley playing in the most exciting team in Italy

 

...and riding the bench (per the announcers last night)...

 

But seriously, look no further than Dempsey...he's gone from boy to man playing for the Spurs.

 

On a side note, I hope Donovan never plays another second for the USMNT. He's single-handedly holding the whole thing back.

[Cugalabanza]

Right, the MLS is definitely growing, too. But if we want our national players to be worth a damn, they gotta go play in Europe.

 

Could be that in 10 years, some top European players will want to come to the MLS. I'm not making a prediction, but that could very well be the case. And I don't just mean guys like Henry and Beckham doing farewell tours.

 

...and riding the bench (per the announcers last night)...

 

But seriously, look no further than Dempsey...he's gone from boy to man playing for the Spurs.

 

On a side note, I hope Donovan never plays another second for the USMNT. He's single-handedly holding the whole thing back.

 

I thought Bradley was a regular starter at Roma.

 

And I disagree about Donovan. I'd love to see him back for the three qualifiers in June. If his time off helped him get hungry for the game again, I got no problem with it. He's Quality on the field.

[meazza]

Could be that in 10 years, some top European players will want to come to the MLS. I'm not making a prediction, but that could very well be the case. And I don't just mean guys like Henry and Beckham doing farewell tours.

 

 

Well right now you have Di Vaio and Nesta also playing for the Impact and they have seriously added some fan interest in the team.

 

 

I thought Bradley was a regular starter at Roma.

 

No Bradley is not a starter. He is more of a closer usually coming in at the last twenty minutes but Pjanic and De Rossi are a class above which is only normal but he still gets playing time.

[Cugalabanza]

Thanks for that thouroughly depressing post. All true. TV (plus the absurd obsession with replay) is killing football.

 

And don't forget the endless parade of meaningless stats splashed on the screen along with the stupid explosions and sh---y jock rock.

 

Ha! Sorry, didn't mean to be depressing. Of course soccer has it's diving & faking, bad refs, etc... I just find myself enjoying soccer more and more. I love the flow of the game. It has a drama of its own that I just get into. When I watch a good soccer game, I find myself wishing there was more time left--I don't want it to end. Even a 0-0 draw can be hugely fun to watch for me. I don't feel that way so much with other sports.

 

I do still like the NFL. If our team wasn't such a perennial failure, maybe I'd have more enthusiasm for football too.

[meazza]

Ha! Sorry, didn't mean to be depressing. Of course soccer has it's diving & faking, bad refs, etc... I just find myself enjoying soccer more and more. I love the flow of the game. It has a drama of its own that I just get into. When I watch a good soccer game, I find myself wishing there was more time left--I don't want it to end. Even a 0-0 draw can be hugely fun to watch for me. I don't feel that way so much with other sports.

 

I do still like the NFL. If our team wasn't such a perennial failure, maybe I'd have more enthusiasm for football too.

 

As a Roma and Bills fan, I could say I've had my share of rather depressing Sundays

[John Adams]

Right, the MLS is definitely growing, too. But if we want our national players to be worth a damn, they gotta go play in Europe.

 

Not entirely sure about this.

 

Clearly the better soccer is played in Europe but some of the most aggressive players are MLS players. If the US Style is going to be more European (better touches, more possession) than the better players need to go to Europe for now.

 

If the US men's style is going to be like the way the women win--athleticism and aggressiveness--MLS players are good at that. The USWMNT wins because they are so much more athletic than other teams. Japan is much much much better women's team with better players. But the US women grind everyone down with their great athletes. On the men's side, the gap between athletes is minimal or nonexistent so the US men can't just beat people up with size and speed--still, the US MLS players impact the game because of their downhill style.

 

Which brings me to your wife's dilemma regarding youth soccer. I'm a youth travel soccer coach and also our club's travel coordinator (shoot me now for the later!). Currently my team is U11 moving to U12. I drilled the ever-loving crap out of my girls on footwork and touches for 3 years. We juggle, we do Coerver moves, we practice controlling airborne balls with different body parts. I rarely have a ratio of more than 3:1 kids to balls in any drill I do. And I do a fair number of touches drills. And then in practice and games, I emphasize possession soccer. Now possession soccer for U11 is hard....they try to string together 4-5 passes and they are young so one disconnects and a bigger more physical team takes advantage.

 

But my girls have the best feet of any team in my area. But...we don't win a lot. We have not spent a ton of time playing games, learning to be pushy, etc. And that's what many US parents (I've helped mine see that our game is pretty) want: Wins. I have tried to decouple wins so far from teaching skills. Now here we are at that magic moment of U12. And lo and behold, all those skills are starting to translate into wins over teams that used to beat us. And many of our wins are coming in big gulping wins...by 3-4 goals. Because our keepaway possession game just obliterates the dump and chase teams. But it took a good 3 years and many losses while we worked on skills to get here.

 

Coming full circle on that ramble, the problem is that youth soccer coaches mostly try to find big athletic kids who can push other kids around and football their way to a goal. That works for a long time in youth soccer for wins and requires little teaching--we still struggle with the brawny teams. Teaching soccer is less fun for the kids (with a bad coach) and harder for the coach (need better coaches). To me, that's why our game suffers. We spend way too much time emphasizing games and far too little time on skills at young ages. Imagine if a baseball coach just sent his U9 kids out to play ball every practice and didn't work on all the details that baseball requires...his team would blow. It's shocking that anyone thinks soccer is different.

 

By the way, on this point of games, a U9 "Select" coach I was talking to recently was bragging that his team was playing in 100 games this year. 100 games for 8 year olds! WTF?!?

 

MLS improiving is helping the US game. NSCAA and USSF putting out more standard programs is helping clubs focus on more important things at younger ages. The needle is moving. Just slowly.

Edited March 27, 2013 by John Adams

[The Big Cat]

Not entirely sure about this.

 

Clearly the better soccer is played in Europe but some of the most aggressive players are MLS players. If the US Style is going to be more European (better touches, more possession) than the better players need to go to Europe for now.

 

If the US men's style is going to be like the way the women win--athleticism and aggressiveness--MLS players are good at that. The USWMNT wins because they are so much more athletic than other teams. Japan is much much much better women's team with better players. But the US women grind everyone down with their great athletes. On the men's side, the gap between athletes is minimal or nonexistent so the US men can't just beat people up with size and speed--still, the US MLS players impact the game because of their downhill style.

 

Which brings me to your wife's dilemma regarding youth soccer. I'm a youth travel soccer coach and also our club's travel coordinator (shoot me now for the later!). Currently my team is U11 moving to U12. I drilled the ever-loving crap out of my girls on footwork and touches for 3 years. We juggle, we do Coerver moves, we practice controlling airborne balls with different body parts. I rarely have a ratio of more than 3:1 kids to balls in any drill I do. And I do a fair number of touches drills. And then in practice and games, I emphasize possession soccer. Now possession soccer for U11 is hard....they try to string together 4-5 passes and they are young so one disconnects and a bigger more physical team takes advantage.

 

But my girls have the best feet of any team in my area. But...we don't win a lot. We have not spent a ton of time playing games, learning to be pushy, etc. And that's what many US parents (I've helped mine see that our game is pretty) want: Wins. I have tried to decouple wins so far from teaching skills. Now here we are at that magic moment of U12. And lo and behold, all those skills are starting to translate into wins over teams that used to beat us. And many of our wins are coming in big gulping wins...by 3-4 goals. Because our keepaway possession game just obliterates the dump and chase teams. But it took a good 3 years and many losses while we worked on skills to get here.

 

Coming full circle on that ramble, the problem is that youth soccer coaches mostly try to find big athletic kids who can push other kids around and football their way to a goal. That works for a long time in youth soccer for wins and requires little teaching--we still struggle with the brawny teams. Teaching soccer is less fun for the kids (with a bad coach) and harder for the coach (need better coaches). To me, that's why our game suffers. We spend way too much time emphasizing games and far too little time on skills at young ages. Imagine if a baseball coach just sent his U9 kids out to play ball every practice and didn't work on all the details that baseball requires...his team would blow. It's shocking that anyone thinks soccer is different.

 

By the way, on this point of games, a U9 "Select" coach I was talking to recently was bragging that his team was playing in 100 games this year. 100 games for 8 year olds! WTF?!?

 

MLS improiving is helping the US game. NSCAA and USSF putting out more standard programs is helping clubs focus on more important things at younger ages. The needle is moving. Just slowly.

 

Is your/her club part of the Development Academy?

 

My wife and I just recently discussed another issue that you raised: too many games, not enough practices. It's an epidemic in US Youth soccer. And why are they playing so many games and not honing their skills? Because coaches just want to win win win win, that's the only way the understand how to show "results." The DA and Klinnsman are in agreement that that MUST change...

 

I also 100% agree with what you say about the U.S. style--that it should be predicated on speed and aggression, not skill and possession. But you're right, our women are enjoying a comfortable lead as far as how their athleticism compares to the rest of the world, but rest assured, it will be chipped-away as the still-nascent stage matures. Likewise, the rest-of-the-world's men are good enough athletes that we'll never achieve the kind of athleticism it takes to overcome theirs AND their skill...hence why I think there's no hope for the men: can't beat them at their game, can't beat them at ours, either.

[ajzepp]

I just find myself enjoying soccer more and more. I love the flow of the game. It has a drama of its own that I just get into. When I watch a good soccer game, I find myself wishing there was more time left--I don't want it to end. Even a 0-0 draw can be hugely fun to watch for me. I don't feel that way so much with other sports.

 

 

To me, a 0-0 match is the barometer for when someone "gets" the sport. I can understand how it's frustrating for the uninitiated to start watching soccer and become disappointed/frustrated by the lack of scoring, but as you said, there is so much drama specific to the match outside of the actual number of goals scored. I missed the match from last night, but the story line and history alone was just incredible. Only the 2nd time EVER that we've come away with something other than a loss playing a qualifier match at Azteca. Only the 8th time in nearly 80 matches where the Mexicans didn't come away with the 3 pts. Klinsi with the nation watching following these "anonymous" cowards talking poop about his coaching style. I mean, there's enough there for even the casual fan to sink their teeth into.

 

I only saw the highlight film from last night, but SEVENTEEN CORNERS for Mexico??? How did we possibly survive that? And just watching some of the moves that Hernandez, Dos Santos, and Aquino were putting on our guys, I can't believe we held up for 92 min.

[Magox]

It was a fantastic result and puts us in good position to qualify for the WC. In regards to the enjoyability of a 0-0 game, well, that's just how many soccer games are, many people appreciate the game within the game, and many here in the U.S don't. It is by far the most popular game on the planet, and there is no close second but here in the U.S it will never come close to being our top sport, and that won't change. The best the American team can hope for is to improve their youth league infrastructure, specially at the ages of 13-21 and continue to develop our domestic professional league. We've become a respectable team, which is a feat in itself, I mean it was only a few decades ago that we were the laughing stock of the world. So I'm pleased about that.

 

We just need to develop some world class finishers, I'd say the best scorer that we've had over the past few decades was McBride and Donovan, and they are both respectable players, but we never have had that elite striker. It will happen, it's just a matter of time.

[ajzepp]

It is by far the most popular game on the planet, and there is no close second but here in the U.S it will never come close to being our top sport, and that won't change. The best the American team can hope for is to improve their youth league infrastructure, specially at the ages of 13-21 and continue to develop our domestic professional league. We've become a respectable team, which is a feat in itself, I mean it was only a few decades ago that we were the laughing stock of the world. So I'm pleased about that.

 

 

 

Well said. I often hear people mocking soccer and stating how it's unrealistic to ever think it would become the top sport in the US. I don't know who was espousing this as a realistic result to begin with! Of COURSE soccer will never overtake the NFL in terms of popularity, revenue, player salaries, etc. Even soccer knows that lol. But to use that measuring stick to determine if the sport is successful or unsuccessful is asinine. It's a niche sport that is making consistent strides in gaining increasing mainstream interest and acceptance. Our national league will have it's 20 year anniversary in 2016. WC qualifier matches and international friendlies sell out stadiums all across the country. ESPN has secured solid ratings for its EPL matches, WC coverage, Champions League Final coverage, etc, etc. And on top of that, we have a national team that is working to change its culture and take the next step in becoming a legit power on the world stage. So you don't have to look very hard to see that the sport has become VERY successful and that it has a bright future in the USA. Of course it's not the NFL...it'll never be the NFL...and that's perfectly fine.

[John Adams]

 

 

Is your/her club part of the Development Academy?

 

My wife and I just recently discussed another issue that you raised: too many games, not enough practices. It's an epidemic in US Youth soccer. And why are they playing so many games and not honing their skills? Because coaches just want to win win win win, that's the only way the understand how to show "results." The DA and Klinnsman are in agreement that that MUST change...

 

I also 100% agree with what you say about the U.S. style--that it should be predicated on speed and aggression, not skill and possession. But you're right, our women are enjoying a comfortable lead as far as how their athleticism compares to the rest of the world, but rest assured, it will be chipped-away as the still-nascent stage matures. Likewise, the rest-of-the-world's men are good enough athletes that we'll never achieve the kind of athleticism it takes to overcome theirs AND their skill...hence why I think there's no hope for the men: can't beat them at their game, can't beat them at ours, either.

 

We are a 1200 player club outside of Philly. Nowhere near the uber Elite USSF Development Academy model.

[Beerball]

What does "in the hex" mean?