ganesh Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Crazy that the worst QB ever got another job less than a week on the market. Fitz is such a loser at life. The Bills offered him the same job, to back up a young QB and he refused. So what is the point.
truth on hold Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 The Bills offered him the same job, to back up a young QB and he refused. So what is the point. That titans are suckers
Orton's Arm Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Said it before, will say it again: Fitz was not the problem in Buffalo, it was the DEFENSE! Was he the answer, no, but he certainly was not the problem for this team. Ahhhh? How's the old saying go, "be careful what you wish for," and look, what do we have at QB now? NOTHING! And what's our prospects, a 2nd or 3rd round draftee in a year of bad QBs to draft. Great plan! Paying him 3 mil. will look like a bargain come October. Oh well, time to move on, let me just finish this >>> :wallbash: :wallbash: Whenever a Bills' player hits free agency, it's a chance for GMs around the league to collectively render a verdict on the quality of his play. Oftentimes, the verdict is in line with what the vast majority of fans here think. But there are times when a particular player produces polarizes these boards. When there are many here who vocally praise him, while many others criticize his play. Take Losman for example. There are still some here who think he could have been a good starting QB "if only __________ ." GMs around the league haven't bought that, which is why he's no longer in the NFL. Or take Donte Whitner. Long after it had become clear the 8th overall pick had been squandered, there were still many here who claimed that he was a top-10 safety. And went on claiming that after he attracted little interest in free agency, and signed the kind of contract a bottom-10 starter/quality backup would expect to sign. Ryan Fitzpatrick has just finished signing that same kind of contract with the Titans; which implies that GMs around the league are just as critical of him as they'd been of Whitner. (But not as critical as they'd been of Losman.) GMs around the league have rendered their verdict: no one was willing to give Losman the kind of contract a top-20 starting QB should expect. But I expect some to go right on praising him; just as Losman and Whitner have continued to receive praise long after the truth became clear.
FireChan Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Whenever a Bills' player hits free agency, it's a chance for GMs around the league to collectively render a verdict on the quality of his play. Oftentimes, the verdict is in line with what the vast majority of fans here think. But there are times when a particular player produces polarizes these boards. When there are many here who vocally praise him, while many others criticize his play. Take Losman for example. There are still some here who think he could have been a good starting QB "if only __________ ." GMs around the league haven't bought that, which is why he's no longer in the NFL. Or take Donte Whitner. Long after it had become clear the 8th overall pick had been squandered, there were still many here who claimed that he was a top-10 safety. And went on claiming that after he attracted little interest in free agency, and signed the kind of contract a bottom-10 starter/quality backup would expect to sign. Ryan Fitzpatrick has just finished signing that same kind of contract with the Titans; which implies that GMs around the league are just as critical of him as they'd been of Whitner. (But not as critical as they'd been of Losman.) GMs around the league have rendered their verdict: no one was willing to give Losman the kind of contract a top-20 starting QB should expect. But I expect some to go right on praising him; just as Losman and Whitner have continued to receive praise long after the truth became clear. There was this one QB, I can't remember his name. Tim something. GM's around the league thought he was a nobody, he barely got drafted. Now he's apparently a future HOFer. There was some other guy this year too. Ruddell Wilfork maybe? Every GM thought he was too short to play, even teams that needed QB's desperately didn't take him. I think he took the Seagulls to the playoffs or something after they drafted him in the third round. GM's may have more info than we do, but that doesn't mean every decision they make is a good one. Donte was on a Superbowl contender this year.
Best Player Available Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Whenever a Bills' player hits free agency, it's a chance for GMs around the league to collectively render a verdict on the quality of his play. Oftentimes, the verdict is in line with what the vast majority of fans here think. But there are times when a particular player produces polarizes these boards. When there are many here who vocally praise him, while many others criticize his play. Take Losman for example. There are still some here who think he could have been a good starting QB "if only __________ ." GMs around the league haven't bought that, which is why he's no longer in the NFL. Or take Donte Whitner. Long after it had become clear the 8th overall pick had been squandered, there were still many here who claimed that he was a top-10 safety. And went on claiming that after he attracted little interest in free agency, and signed the kind of contract a bottom-10 starter/quality backup would expect to sign. Ryan Fitzpatrick has just finished signing that same kind of contract with the Titans; which implies that GMs around the league are just as critical of him as they'd been of Whitner. (But not as critical as they'd been of Losman.) GMs around the league have rendered their verdict: no one was willing to give Losman the kind of contract a top-20 starting QB should expect. But I expect some to go right on praising him; just as Losman and Whitner have continued to receive praise long after the truth became clear. Meh, everyone has an opinion. SI for what it's worth has Lil Donte rated as the #11 Safety in 2012, for comparison they had Byrd at #2. Another (very) highly ranked safety? Well, that would be George Wilson the guy the Bills cut. Now is SI the only opinion out there? No. But most would not argue their subjective rankings which are statistic based. Unless some are pissed that Byrd is #2 in 2012. I'm thinking there in the ballpark.Like him or hate him Lil Donte is not bottom 10, even after getting scorched in the Superbowl. And I'm not even a fan of the guy.
Orton's Arm Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 There was this one QB, I can't remember his name. Tim something. GM's around the league thought he was a nobody, he barely got drafted. Now he's apparently a future HOFer. There was some other guy this year too. Ruddell Wilfork maybe? Every GM thought he was too short to play, even teams that needed QB's desperately didn't take him. I think he took the Seagulls to the playoffs or something after they drafted him in the third round. GM's may have more info than we do, but that doesn't mean every decision they make is a good one. Donte was on a Superbowl contender this year. You are comparing apples to oranges. It can be difficult for GMs to look at a player's college tape, and accurately predict how well he'll do in the NFL. That's why guys like JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf were taken early in the first round, while players like Tom Brady and Kurt Warner were taken later in the draft, or (in Kurt's case) went undrafted. But once a guy has been in the league for a while--once there's a good amount of NFL game tape on him--it becomes easier for GMs to make an accurate assessment. > Donte was on a Superbowl contender this year. Just as Mike Gandy was the starting left tackle for a Super Bowl contender a few years ago. (The Arizona Cardinals.)
FireChan Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 You are comparing apples to oranges. It can be difficult for GMs to look at a player's college tape, and accurately predict how well he'll do in the NFL. That's why guys like JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf were taken early in the first round, while players like Tom Brady and Kurt Warner were taken later in the draft, or (in Kurt's case) went undrafted. But once a guy has been in the league for a while--once there's a good amount of NFL game tape on him--it becomes easier for GMs to make an accurate assessment. > Donte was on a Superbowl contender this year. Just as Mike Gandy was the starting left tackle for a Super Bowl contender a few years ago. (The Arizona Cardinals.) Fine. Drew Brees' numbers on the Chargers were almost identical to RF's here. Chargers traded him. Now he's a top 5 QB. Explain their wisdom there.
Dibs Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Fine. Drew Brees' numbers on the Chargers were almost identical to RF's here. Chargers traded him. Now he's a top 5 QB. Explain their wisdom there. Brees: 2004: 262-400-3159.....65.5%......27TD......7INT.....Y/A 7.9.....104.8QBR....11-4 win/loss......All-pro 2005: 323-500-3576.....64.6%......24TD....15INT.....Y/A 7.2.....89.2QBR.....9-7 win/loss Fitz: 2011: 353-569-3832....62%.......24TD.....23INT.....Y/A 6.7.....79.1QBR.....5-8 win/loss 2012: 306-505-3400....60.6%....24TD.....16INT.....Y/A 6.7.....83.3QBR.....6-10 win/loss Even if their stats were comparable, Brees looked special. Everybody knew it. You can't always judge a QB by his stats. If you did, you might think that a player like Elway was a lucky journeyman throughout his first 10 seasons. Injury issues aside, Brees was given one of the highest contracts in the league by the Saints in 2006. Explaining their wisdom.....from wiki.... "Brees became a free agent after the season and was not expected to return to San Diego, which had already committed a large sum of money to Rivers. The team eventually designated Brees a franchise player, giving him a one-year contract that quadrupled his pay to $8 million for 2005. Under the terms of the franchise player contract, Brees was eligible to be traded or sign with another team, but the Chargers would receive two future first round draft choices in return. He was not traded and continued as starting quarterback for the remainder of the 2005 season.[17] Brees continued his productive play in 2005, as he posted a career high in passing yards with 3,576. Brees also posted an 89.2 rating, 10th best in the NFL. However, in the last game of the 2005 season against the Denver Broncos, Brees tore his labrum......Brees underwent arthroscopic surgery, .....to repair the torn labrum in his right (throwing) shoulder on January 5, 2006. Subsequent reports mentioned additional rotator cuff damage and he also was treated by Dr. Saby Szajowitz to recover and regain muscle movement. He was selected as first alternate to the AFC Pro Bowl team for the 2005 season. He would have played in his second consecutive Pro Bowl due to the injury to starter Carson Palmer, but his own injury dictated that the AFC Pro Bowl roster would have to be filled by second alternate Jake Plummer.[citation needed] After the season, the Chargers offered Brees a 5-year, $50 million contract that paid $2 million in base salary the first year and the rest heavily based on performance incentives. Brees evaluated the incentive-based offer as a sign of no confidence by the Chargers and promptly demanded the salary a top 5 "franchise" quarterback would receive." Edited March 21, 2013 by Dibs
QCity Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Drew Brees' numbers on the Chargers were almost identical to RF's here. Ahhh, the old Fitzpatrick-Brees comparison. The talking heads on ESPN are always comparing the two.
FireChan Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Brees: 2004: 262-400-3159.....65.5%......27TD......7INT.....Y/A 7.9.....104.8QBR....11-4 win/loss......All-pro 2005: 323-500-3576.....64.6%......24TD....15INT.....Y/A 7.2.....89.2QBR.....9-7 win/loss Fitz: 2011: 353-569-3832....62%.......24TD.....23INT.....Y/A 6.7.....79.1QBR.....5-8 win/loss 2012: 306-505-3400....60.6%....24TD.....16INT.....Y/A 6.7.....83.3QBR.....6-10 win/loss Even if their stats were comparable, Brees looked special. Everybody knew it. You can't always judge a QB by his stats. If you did, you might think that a player like Elway was a lucky journeyman throughout his first 10 seasons. Injury issues aside, Brees was given one of the highest contracts in the league by the Saints in 2006. Explaining their wisdom.....from wiki.... "Brees became a free agent after the season and was not expected to return to San Diego, which had already committed a large sum of money to Rivers. The team eventually designated Brees a franchise player, giving him a one-year contract that quadrupled his pay to $8 million for 2005. Under the terms of the franchise player contract, Brees was eligible to be traded or sign with another team, but the Chargers would receive two future first round draft choices in return. He was not traded and continued as starting quarterback for the remainder of the 2005 season.[17] Brees continued his productive play in 2005, as he posted a career high in passing yards with 3,576. Brees also posted an 89.2 rating, 10th best in the NFL. However, in the last game of the 2005 season against the Denver Broncos, Brees tore his labrum......Brees underwent arthroscopic surgery, .....to repair the torn labrum in his right (throwing) shoulder on January 5, 2006. Subsequent reports mentioned additional rotator cuff damage and he also was treated by Dr. Saby Szajowitz to recover and regain muscle movement. He was selected as first alternate to the AFC Pro Bowl team for the 2005 season. He would have played in his second consecutive Pro Bowl due to the injury to starter Carson Palmer, but his own injury dictated that the AFC Pro Bowl roster would have to be filled by second alternate Jake Plummer.[citation needed] After the season, the Chargers offered Brees a 5-year, $50 million contract that paid $2 million in base salary the first year and the rest heavily based on performance incentives. Brees evaluated the incentive-based offer as a sign of no confidence by the Chargers and promptly demanded the salary a top 5 "franchise" quarterback would receive." A 24 TD 14 INT 3000 yard season is very close to Fitz's numbers. Obviously the Chargers didn't think he was worth the money. They cut him loose and he's won a Super Bowl and doubled his stats in New Orleans. I'd bet the Chargers would've never let him go if they saw what he would turn out to be. That's my point, they aren't infallible to mismanaging talent across the league, they never have been.
FireChan Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Ahhh, the old Fitzpatrick-Brees comparison. The talking heads on ESPN are always comparing the two. It's funny you call them talking heads, yet imply what they do or don't say matters. It's a contradiction, like starburst, solid yet juicy.
Beerball Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 A 24 TD 14 INT 3000 yard season is very close to Fitz's numbers. Obviously the Chargers didn't think he was worth the money. They cut him loose and he's won a Super Bowl and doubled his stats in New Orleans. I'd bet the Chargers would've never let him go if they saw what he would turn out to be. That's my point, they aren't infallible to mismanaging talent across the league, they never have been. Are you really that blind that you do not see the huge differences between the 2? If in your mind Fitzpatrick=Brees then there is no help for you. No rational argument will sway your opinion, so there is no sense trying. When I watch football games involving NO I always think to myself..."that Brees guy reminds me of Ryan Fitzpatrick." He was a lower tier mediocre QB here. He's gone. He's a backup (the position he's best suited for). He isn't Drew Brees. Get over it.
Maury Ballstein Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) I'll be watching with interest to what y'all (and you in particular) have to say about TJax. He does have more arm though. A 24 TD 14 INT 3000 yard season is very close to Fitz's numbers. Obviously the Chargers didn't think he was worth the money. They cut him loose and he's won a Super Bowl and doubled his stats in New Orleans. I'd bet the Chargers would've never let him go if they saw what he would turn out to be. That's my point, they aren't infallible to mismanaging talent across the league, they never have been. @hopeful-----I am not ryanc (dual account) FTR. He must be another guy who just got tired of watching Fitzpatrick as well. I have seen Tarvaris before and know what to expect out of him, if he doesn't get surplanted by Barkley/Geno as it plays out in my head. I wouldn't expect all world stats from Tarvaris but i do expect him to air it out a little more and that pleases me a bit. @firechan-----fitz/brees comparisons? that just ain't right. Edited March 21, 2013 by Ryan L Billz
Dibs Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) A 24 TD 14 INT 3000 yard season is very close to Fitz's numbers...... You are 100% correct. The last year on their respective teams they had somewhat similar stats(though Brees was 10th in the league & Fitz was 17th). You seem happy to ignore the concept that Brees was an all-pro in his 2nd last year with the Chargers(3rd in league).....while Fitz was 22nd. You also seem ignorant to the fact that stats do not fully reflect the ability of a QB. Elway made the pro-bowl and dragged his team to the SB with QBRs of 79.0, 83.4 & 73.7. What is your actual point on trying to compare Brees to Fitzpatrick? .......Obviously the Chargers didn't think he was worth the money. They cut him loose and he's won a Super Bowl and doubled his stats in New Orleans. I'd bet the Chargers would've never let him go if they saw what he would turn out to be. That's my point, they aren't infallible to mismanaging talent across the league, they never have been. You asked people to explain why the Chargers let Brees go......so I pasted the pertinent information from wiki. Did you not bother to read it? It clearly shows that Brees was considered a first class QB at the time.....that the Chargers had unfortunately invested large money into Rivers.....and that Brees' future was clouded by injury concerns. Here it is again(with a little more)....the relevant information is in red. I typically have plenty of free time.....just let me know what parts you don't understand. "Brees became a free agent after the season(2004 All-Pro) and was not expected to return to San Diego, which had already committed a large sum of money to Rivers. The team eventually designated Brees a franchise player, giving him a one-year contract that quadrupled his pay to $8 million for 2005. Under the terms of the franchise player contract, Brees was eligible to be traded or sign with another team, but the Chargers would receive two future first round draft choices in return. He was not traded and continued as starting quarterback for the remainder of the 2005 season.[17] Brees continued his productive play in 2005, as he posted a career high in passing yards with 3,576. Brees also posted an 89.2 rating, 10th best in the NFL. However, in the last game of the 2005 season against the Denver Broncos, Brees tore his labrum......Brees underwent arthroscopic surgery, .....to repair the torn labrum in his right (throwing) shoulder on January 5, 2006. Subsequent reports mentioned additional rotator cuff damage and he also was treated by Dr. Saby Szajowitz to recover and regain muscle movement. He was selected as first alternate to the AFC Pro Bowl team for the 2005 season. He would have played in his second consecutive Pro Bowl due to the injury to starter Carson Palmer, but his own injury dictated that the AFC Pro Bowl roster would have to be filled by second alternate Jake Plummer.[citation needed] After the season, the Chargers offered Brees a 5-year, $50 million contract that paid $2 million in base salary the first year and the rest heavily based on performance incentives. Brees evaluated the incentive-based offer as a sign of no confidence by the Chargers and promptly demanded the salary a top 5 "franchise" quarterback would receive." "After the Chargers refused to increase their offer, Brees met with other teams. The New Orleans Saints and the Miami Dolphins were interested. New Orleans made an offer that included $10 million in guaranteed money the first year and a $12 million option the second year. Miami was unsure if Brees' shoulder was completely healed and doctors suggested the team not sign him because of the injury.[18] The Dolphins ended negotiations and traded for Minnesota Vikings QB Daunte Culpepper instead. Brees signed a 6-year, $60 million deal with the Saints on March 14," Edited March 21, 2013 by Dibs
truth on hold Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 @hopeful-----I am not ryanc (dual account) FTR. He must be another guy who just got tired of watching Fitzpatrick as well. I have seen Tarvaris before and know what to expect out of him, if he doesn't get surplanted by Barkley/Geno as it plays out in my head. I wouldn't expect all world stats from Tarvaris but i do expect him to air it out a little more and that pleases me a bit. He's pulling that same old crap of attempting to make fitz look good by trying to make others look bad
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Ahhh, the old Fitzpatrick-Brees comparison. The talking heads on ESPN are always comparing the two. Was that before or after they were equating Tom Brady and Trent Edwards?
FLFan Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Ahhh, the old Fitzpatrick-Brees comparison. The talking heads on ESPN are always comparing the two. I cannnot begin to understand how someone could actually put Fitz and Brees in the same conversation, or think there is any comparison between the two. Astounding really. Edited March 21, 2013 by MDFan
Orton's Arm Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) A 24 TD 14 INT 3000 yard season is very close to Fitz's numbers. Obviously the Chargers didn't think he was worth the money. They cut him loose and he's won a Super Bowl and doubled his stats in New Orleans. I'd bet the Chargers would've never let him go if they saw what he would turn out to be. That's my point, they aren't infallible to mismanaging talent across the league, they never have been. When using statistical tools to evaluate a QB--as you seem to be doing here--it's always important to use the right statistical tools. Using the wrong ones will create deceptive appearances. Ryan Fitzpatrick played for a pass-happy coach; and did a pretty good job of avoiding injury. That gave him the chance to pile up a lot of passing yards. Not necessarily because he was doing anything special on a per play basis--he wasn't--but because he was out there for very many passing plays. Also, the Bills' lack of commitment to their running game meant that a typical Gailey game would often have more plays and more possessions than many other teams' games. After Lynch was traded, the Bills lacked a power RB. That lack--plus the fact that Gailey was pass-happy to begin with--made the Bills disproportionately likely to run the ball while in the red zone. It wasn't that the Bills were particularly good at converting red zone possessions, because they weren't. But whenever they did convert, they were much more likely to have done so with a passing play than a running play. Looking at yards per season or TDs per season rewards a QB for being out there for a lot of passing plays. That's why stats like those make Fitzpatrick look good. Another way of evaluating a QB is to look at what he did on a per play basis. In Dib's excellent post--the one he started off with a --he pointed out that Brees averaged 7.9 and 7.2 yards per pass in his last two years in San Diego. In his last two years in Buffalo, Fitz averaged 6.7 yards per pass. Those numbers are not remotely comparable. If running back A had a 1000 yard season while averaging 3 yards a carry, and running back B had a 1000 yard season while averaging 6 yards a carry, would you say the two RBs were statistically the same? Neither would most general managers. By the same token, when a QB like Fitz does a lot less--on a per-play basis--than a QB like Brees, that's going to affect how GMs see the two QBs. As it should. Edited March 21, 2013 by Edwards' Arm
Bronc24 Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Fine. Drew Brees' numbers on the Chargers were almost identical to RF's here. Chargers traded him. Now he's a top 5 QB. Explain their wisdom there. Care to wager on Fitz becoming top 5 in anything besides eating big steaks and turnovers? The guy sucked. Period. Why the man-crush?
KD in CA Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 I cannnot begin to understand how someone could actually put Fitz and Brees in the same conversation, or think there is any comparison between the two. Astounding really. Not watching either of them play football might explain it.
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