RevWarRifleman Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 A QB, their largest need for almost the past 15 years, and the most important position in the NFL. That's all. But none on these guys are worth a #1. Two years later we're back to searching for our franchise QB. Plus we had to give up other high draft picks in 2014 & maybe 2015. If I'm going to go QB in the first pick overall, his talent is going to be on a par w/ Kelly, or Luck, or both Mannings. Picking a QB #1 overall in this draft would be a repeat of the movie Groundhogs Day staring Mike Williams. (Remember him we picked at #3 overall?)
H2o Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 Just saw a discussion on NFLN that went: KC has filled most of its glaring holes via Free Agency/Trading. They dont need the #1 spot, and would probably be willing to trade out of it pretty cheap (the talking heads joked the Bills could do it with just their #8 and #41). Jacksonville showed up at Geno Smith's pro day with their ENTIRE front office staff. Doing KC a huge favor by alerting all teams know of their (possible) interest. Of course, they could just be after another player at #2 and want to guarantee Geno goes first so they get their guy. I've been in favor of the Bills trading up to #2 or #3 to get Smith all along. If we could get up to #1, we have to make it happen. Especially if we could do it for #8, #41, and next year's 2nd or something. God no. 8 to 1 would almost 100% include next years first. And likely our second this year - and that would be a discount already. True I could be wrong, I don't see Geno Smith as the player you put it all out on the table for. The Chiefs are just trying to hose someone like SF just hosed them for Alex Smith. Please don't let it be us.
Big C Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 Are we really concerned about anyone taking Geno before Arizona?
OldTimer1960 Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 I don't know if any of the QBs are worth taking at pick 8, much less giving up one or more other high picks to move up and take Smith or Barkley. Sit tight at 8 and let Oakland and Arizona take the risks on these guys. IF a trade up is considered, I might be able to get on-board with a move up from their 2nd pick to the late first/top of the 2nd in order to take Nassib, Manuel or Wilson. Even then, the Bills are in tough shape filling other holes (if they trade their 3rd and 2nd to move up). In the event that they could find a trade partner to move down in the 1st to pick up a 2nd, then I could see trading both 2nd round picks to try to get back into round 1.
turftoe Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 Trade up to #1? Are you out of your friggin mind? This is Geno Smith we are talking about, not Andrew Luck. Kansas City felt that he wasn't as good as Alex Smith, so that says something right there. I don't want him even at #8, I'm hoping he is already gone by then. Trade down, pick up some picks and get a QB later in round 1 or at the top of round 2. If Lane Johnson makes it to pick #8, there will be trade down options.
Maury Ballstein Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 Trade up to #1? Are you out of your friggin mind? This is Geno Smith we are talking about, not Andrew Luck. Kansas City felt that he wasn't as good as Alex Smith, so that says something right there. I don't want him even at #8, I'm hoping he is already gone by then. Trade down, pick up some picks and get a QB later in round 1 or at the top of round 2. If Lane Johnson makes it to pick #8, there will be trade down options. I'm not sure if your Kansas city theory is true. It might be or perhaps Andy Reid values Alex Smith AND a first overall pick over Geno though. Could always trade down and fill whatever holes KC has left or snatch up joeckel and get that OL into beast mode.
machine gun kelly Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 Take Manuel in the 2nd, and draft the bpa in the first. Then next year, we go for it and surrender picks for Manziel. We're not going to be that good anyway so stack the team, have a quality backup on the cheap for years, and move on.
turftoe Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 I'm not sure if your Kansas city theory is true. It might be or perhaps Andy Reid values Alex Smith AND a first overall pick over Geno though. Could always trade down and fill whatever holes KC has left or snatch up joeckel and get that OL into beast mode. True. Point taken. I would rather have the top OT plus Alex Smith as opposed to Geno Smith and a second round OT. I guess my point is that nobody thinks Geno Smith is worth the first overall pick in the draft and since we don't have picks to spare, making that trade would be madness.
NFLBighits Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 Trade up to #1? Are you out of your friggin mind? This is Geno Smith we are talking about, not Andrew Luck. Kansas City felt that he wasn't as good as Alex Smith, so that says something right there. I don't want him even at #8, I'm hoping he is already gone by then. Trade down, pick up some picks and get a QB later in round 1 or at the top of round 2. If Lane Johnson makes it to pick #8, there will be trade down options. Exactly and we were in the Alex Smith hunt till Kc trumped us !
DrDawkinstein Posted March 17, 2013 Author Posted March 17, 2013 8 to 1 would almost 100% include next years first. And likely our second this year - and that would be a discount already. Not necessarily. The Chiefs gave SF their 2013 2nd (#34) and a conditional 2014 pick for Alex Smith. If there isnt anyone they must have at #1, and they think they can get someone that will contribute in the top 10 (a likely case), they may be willing to trade back for our #8 and #41 and a conditional midround next year. This would effectively give them Alex Smith for free. And allow us to move up and grab the QB we want. Minimal cost to move up, and with the rookie cap it's a minimal investment in a possible franchise QB. If he doesnt work out, we take a new QB in 2015.
BuffaloFan68 Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 We are better off staying put. Geno or EJ will both work
bowery4 Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Bills don't draft african american quarterbacks... Let alone dress them... James Harris, was the FIRST black NFL QB (of course we really haven't since but I think the team is really pretty much color blind tbh). A good point was made - KC, having the first pick, had its choice of all the college QB's - AND THEY NEEDED A QB!!! The fact that they traded for Alex Smith, a QB who is good, but is not considered by most to be a top 10 QB, even, but rather more of a manager. KC was willing to take Alex Smith over Barkley, Geno, and whoever else might be 1st round material at QB. I have to believe if Geno is as good as his admirers think - comparable to a Griffin III, or some other athletic QB, there's no way they'd rather have Alex Smith. So - although KC's decision is not by itself proof that Geno isn't going to be great, it does indicate that at least one team isn't sold on him. I happen to be in the group of fans who believes Barkley is the best QB of this class, and that we'd be better off going after him, followed by Wilson, Manuel, and Nassib. No matter how the picks fall, though - trading away picks in this draft isn't going to happen. This draft is deep enough for the Bills to be getting starters in the 3rd round. If anything, we need to trade down and get a couple extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd round, if possible. I agree. I think we need a QB to be one of those picks. I rather agree with most of what you say here (but I think it was the nature of the beast in KC to trade for Smith instead of drafting a guy, different FO but same MO). I'd be very happy with this. And it's more in line with Buddy's stated preference for more picks, not less. This also helps fill more holes in the roster. Yes and true. I agree that Manuel is the only read-option capable QB if that is the direction Marone goes with his offense, as a pure pocket passer I think that Dysert is a good bargain in the later rounds. Arguably one of the strongest arms that can hit all the throws, got the snot beat out of him but was durable and mentally strong, and had probably the worst supporting cast of receivers I have ever seen at a quality college program. We disagree on the BPA approach, but the Bills front office has not had a penchant for finding and developing the BPA so that could be a wash - but there are some new faces in the war room this year. Most talent evaluators have this drafts prospects heavy on talented defensive players and offensive linemen. Can you develop later round offensive linemen? Sure, but the Bills lost much of the o-line coaching staff that was successful when they fired Gailey. We seem to have short term memories when it comes to how bad our offensive lines were before Gailey's coaching staff came in and seemed to perform miracles with linemen off the FA scrap heap, and Gailey instituted a quick read and throw offense. When I watch Manuel against a strong rush and better defenses (like Notre Dame's) he breaks down and runs, if we do not have a good line in front of any rookie QB he will not check down, nor look downfield for options. Rather he will not develop into anything more than a shell-shocked mess. IDK Marrone was an olineman and oline coach, his oline coach has a very impressive resume..... if anything, I think they will get better on the line. I always thought too many of Gailey's plays worked against the Olinemen a little, in that if they missed the read or the audible they were blown up even faster. West coast O's are a bit more stable in reads. It may help. I am of the opinion the read option and to a lesser extent the spread are going to be defended against better the next few years. I am kind of excited to hear we will be more like a Kgun system (which really does favor giant linemen) . A QB, their largest need for almost the past 15 years, and the most important position in the NFL. That's all. Is it worth it this year? It has to be a consideration to trade down and still get a qb. We need more picks to build through the draft. I don't know if any of the QBs are worth taking at pick 8, much less giving up one or more other high picks to move up and take Smith or Barkley. Sit tight at 8 and let Oakland and Arizona take the risks on these guys. IF a trade up is considered, I might be able to get on-board with a move up from their 2nd pick to the late first/top of the 2nd in order to take Nassib, Manuel or Wilson. Even then, the Bills are in tough shape filling other holes (if they trade their 3rd and 2nd to move up). In the event that they could find a trade partner to move down in the 1st to pick up a 2nd, then I could see trading both 2nd round picks to try to get back into round 1. I agree. Not necessarily. The Chiefs gave SF their 2013 2nd (#34) and a conditional 2014 pick for Alex Smith. If there isnt anyone they must have at #1, and they think they can get someone that will contribute in the top 10 (a likely case), they may be willing to trade back for our #8 and #41 and a conditional midround next year. This would effectively give them Alex Smith for free. And allow us to move up and grab the QB we want. Minimal cost to move up, and with the rookie cap it's a minimal investment in a possible franchise QB. If he doesnt work out, we take a new QB in 2015. The Chiefs NEVER draft QB's and Andy Reid thinks he is a QB genius/guru (we had one of those coaches, remember?), I sort of think a lot of these FA moves they are making sound a lot like "Dream Team 2" the sequel. They and the Dolhags are effing their caps the next few years, ask Dan Snyder how that works out. I am speculating but to me it seems obvious. They both may be okay this year but no superbowls and stealing from Peter to pay Paul. We will see how that works out. Edited March 18, 2013 by bowery4
RevWarRifleman Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 Bolster our defense w/ our 8th pick, maybe w/ a LB. For the 2nd & 3rd rounds, get a QB to groom & continue filling holes on Def/Offense. We're not going to win many games this year anyway, so use that to our advantage to get our franchise QB in next year's draft. End of story.
DE Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 Just saw a discussion on NFLN that went: KC has filled most of its glaring holes via Free Agency/Trading. They dont need the #1 spot, and would probably be willing to trade out of it pretty cheap (the talking heads joked the Bills could do it with just their #8 and #41). Jacksonville showed up at Geno Smith's pro day with their ENTIRE front office staff. Doing KC a huge favor by alerting all teams know of their (possible) interest. Of course, they could just be after another player at #2 and want to guarantee Geno goes first so they get their guy. I've been in favor of the Bills trading up to #2 or #3 to get Smith all along. If we could get up to #1, we have to make it happen. Especially if we could do it for #8, #41, and next year's 2nd or something. That would be the worst thing that the Bills could do. First of all, Smith is not worth the first pick in the draft, not even a top 10 pick. Second, the Bills would have to give up their #1 and #2 picks this year and at least their #2 pick next year. For a team with so many needs, that would be a huge mistake. If Smith was a Luck or RG III, that would be different, but not for Smith. There are 6 QB's this year all with very similar skill sets, so the Bills should not mortgage the future for any of them.....
Maury Ballstein Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/19/browns-plan-private-workout-with-geno-smith/ Browns seem to be getting in the mix.................Trade up to #1 Andy Reid what can we do for you sir?
Pete Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 NO !@#$ING WAY! Maybe in next years draft. That is if we don't already have pick #1
Maury Ballstein Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 NO !@#$ING WAY! Maybe in next years draft. That is if we don't already have pick #1 why not? you want to continue to muddle around in nowhere land with another fuddy duddy qb? IMO it's time to make a splash.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 19, 2013 Author Posted March 19, 2013 why not? you want to continue to muddle around in nowhere land with another fuddy duddy qb? IMO it's time to make a splash. This. Anyone who says "We should wait until next year" should be stripped of their fan card and banned from the board. We have been "waiting until next year" for 15 f%$&ing years when it comes to getting a true Franchise QB from the draft. If I had the time to search the archives, I could quote and re-post hundreds of posts saying "Next year's QB class will be better" EVERY YEAR for the last 5 years. STOP! To even suggest that a (so far) flash-in-the-pan running QB will somehow be better coming out as a Sophomore, over a 4 year player who has put up some of the best passing stats ever is LUDICROUS. The Bills must get the best QB in the draft. There is no need as large or as important. It doesnt matter who we put at Guard or LB or WR. Without a QB, we'll never win more than 6 games. Time to grow a set, make a big boy move, and get our guy.
Pete Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 why not? you want to continue to muddle around in nowhere land with another fuddy duddy qb? IMO it's time to make a splash. IMO there is no QB worth the #1 pick. And it is also my opinion that no QB belongs in the first round this year, but will be overdrafted. We need WR's, LB's, LG, TE and TE just as much as QB. And there are 22 starting position on a football team. Football is not all about the QB and the Bills have major holes, and major depth issues. We need to trade down for more picks if anything
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