drugtests for welfare ?

[dayman]

For the record you guys know you can't actaully get welfare forever right? And there are various training and work requirements...and of those requirements you B word at your state for the most part if you want them changed...

[Maury Ballstein]

For the record you guys know you can't actaully get welfare forever right? And there are various training and work requirements...and of those requirements you B word at your state for the most part if you want them changed...

 

I have an uncle who has "depression" his checks have been coming in for a long time. I also have friends from high school whose parents have been getting gov't money for a long time that seems like welfare.

 

I don't know all the rules but it seems like some are collecting the $$$ for a decent amount of time perhaps with loopholes and other nonsense

[Magox]

When I was reading SOB's comment, I knew that something wasn't right with what he had said. Technically he's right, but in actual real world practice, he wasn't.

 

PRWORA made time limits a central feature of federal welfare policy. The law abolished the Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) program and created the

Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) block grant. Under the law, states are prohibited from using federal TANF funds to provide assistance to families with an adult recipient for more than 60 cumulative months. (The time limit does not affect eligibility for other public assistance programs, such as Food Stamps and Medicaid.) The “clock” started when each state implemented the TANF program (between September 1996 and July 1997).

Although the five-year time-limit provision is well known, several key elements of the policy are not as widely understood:

 

 

 

 

•

Welfare cases with an adult accrue months toward the federal time limit as long as they are receiving assistance that is funded with federal TANF dollars. However, the

time limit does not apply to “child-only cases” in which no adult is included in the welfare grant; such cases now account for around one-third of the national welfare caseload.

 

•

States can provide federally funded TANF assistance beyond 60 months to up to 20 percent of the state caseload, based on hardship. For example, if a

state’s average monthly caseload is 50,000, it could use federal TANF fundsto provide assistance to as many as 10,000 families who are beyond the 60-

month point.

 

•

The 60-month time limit applies only to payments or services that meet the

definition of “assistance” — generally, cash or noncash payments (for example, vouchers) designed to meet a family’s ongoing basic needs for food,

clothing, shelter, and household expenses. Many other types of services (for example, child care subsidies for working families) are not considered

assistance.

 

•

States are not required to impose time limits on assistance provided with state “maintenance-of-effort” (MOE) funds.

Such funds may be used in a separate state program that is not part of the TANF program or may be segregated

as state funds within the TANF program. Thus, states can stop the federal time-limit clock by paying for a family’s benefits with state funds, or they

can use state funds to assist families who pass the federal limit and exceed the 20 percent cap.

 

 

•

Fifteen states received waivers to delay implementation of the federal time limit requirements for at least some families. The federal time clock did not

start before September 2001 in three of the states, and certain categories of recipients were exempted from the federal limit in the others.

 

 

 

 

In reality, the federal time limit is not a limit on benefit receipt for individual families; rather, it is a funding constraint that shapes state policy decisions. If a recipient’s welfare case

was closed because she accumulated 60 months of federally funded benefits, the case was not closed because the family reached the federal time limit but, rather, because the state chose toimpose a time limit that follows the federal limit.

 

http://www.mdrc.org/sites/default/files/full_607.pdf

 

 

In other words, and in Layman's terms, states can and usually do get around the "time limits" for Welfare.

[dayman]

 

 

I have an uncle who has "depression" his checks have been coming in for a long time. I also have friends from high school whose parents have been getting gov't money for a long time that seems like welfare.

 

I don't know all the rules but it seems like some are collecting the $$$ for a decent amount of time perhaps with loopholes and other nonsense

 

Ssi? Ssdi? Maybe tanf it does last a while...all i'm saying is not all money people get from government is tanf

[Koko78]

Let's say you're in California or Washington or Colorado and you have a legal prescription for medicinal marijuana, would a positive test prohibit you from getting welfare or disability?

 

Let's say you have a prescription for oxycodone (or another "legal" big-pharma narcotic) due to a chronic condition or recent trauma, would a positive test prohibit you from getting welfare or disability in that case?

 

Just as with every other drug test currently done, they can bring their prescriptions to show the tester.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Let's say you're in California or Washington or Colorado and you have a legal prescription for medicinal marijuana, would a positive test prohibit you from getting welfare or disability?

 

Let's say you have a prescription for oxycodone (or another "legal" big-pharma narcotic) due to a chronic condition or recent trauma, would a positive test prohibit you from getting welfare or disability in that case?

Yes, because if you can afford drugs, alchohol, video games, cigarettes, trips to 6-Flags, strip clubs, eating prepared foods, etc., legal or otherwise, then you don't need to be on public assistance.

 

End of discussion.

[We Come In Peace]

Yes, because if you can afford drugs, alchohol, video games, cigarettes, trips to 6-Flags, strip clubs, eating prepared foods, etc., legal or otherwise, then you don't need to be on public assistance.

 

End of discussion.

But isn't there a difference between recreational drugs/alcohol/video-games etc and medicinal drugs?

 

Let's say I'm poor and have a chronic illness. Medicine is expensive and necessary for me to survive -- isn't that what public assistance is for?

[Magox]

As if you don't know what his reply will be.

[dayman]

bottom line it depends on what state you are in...perhaps all states are too "liberal" but for the most part some states are fine...my state for one...not too bad...although yes we are the medicare fraud capital but that's south florida there's nothing you can do about that..

[Keukasmallies]

So, if you test positive, you qualify?

[We Come In Peace]

I've always through the role of welfare should be handled by charities and churches.

 

But the reality of it is welfare is riot insurance. You cut it and you will have a mess on your hands that neither the police nor national guard can control.

The churches and charities of this country do far more than any other nation. US Citizens as a whole are more generous (righties and lefties) when it comes to charity as well.

 

But it's still not enough to make a dent in some areas.

[boyst]

Why not shovel for a check? Do you know how much many Hispanic guys get for just one day of farm work? $80-100. That's a lot. That's a whole lot.

You know what you could do with 50 people and a shovel, 50 people and a wheel barrel and 50 people with a rake and 50 people with apple tree saps? You could grade 20 acres and plant 300 apple trees to feed people.

Then get 20 people to tend that land and keep the trees alive.

Then 50 people to pick and package the apples.

You could then feed all the handout families apples.

[dayman]

When I was reading SOB's comment, I knew that something wasn't right with what he had said. Technically he's right, but in actual real world practice, he wasn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.mdrc.org/...es/full_607.pdf

 

 

In other words, and in Layman's terms, states can and usually do get around the "time limits" for Welfare.

 

States administer most federal programs and have wiggle room to operate in most of them, and if they want to go above and beyond, they certainly can choose to do so. In any event, this is...the state being the state. Most people here seem to like that...

 

And as for the drug testing...the bottom line is if you don't like welfare you don't like welfare but there really hasn't been any evidence put forth that establishes this is somehow a great policy aside from just political reasons...obviously there are plenty of examples anyone could dig up...but as a whole in the scheme of the policy Florida was unable to make the argument that this is a legitimate problem:

 

As the district court found, the State failed to offer any factual support or to present any empirical evidence of a “concrete danger” of illegal drug use within Florida's TANF population. See (cite). The evidence in this record does not suggest that the population of TANF recipients engages in illegal drug use or that they misappropriate government funds for drugs at the expense of their own and their children's basic subsistence. The State has presented no evidence that simply because an applicant for TANF benefits is having financial problems, he is also drug addicted or prone to fraudulent and neglectful behavior.

 

-Lebron v. Sec. Florida DCF, 24 Fla. L. Weekly Fed. C 32

Edited March 16, 2013 by SameOldBills

[DC Tom]

Why not shovel for a check? Do you know how much many Hispanic guys get for just one day of farm work? $80-100. That's a lot. That's a whole lot.

You know what you could do with 50 people and a shovel, 50 people and a wheel barrel and 50 people with a rake and 50 people with apple tree saps? You could grade 20 acres and plant 300 apple trees to feed people.

Then get 20 people to tend that land and keep the trees alive.

Then 50 people to pick and package the apples.

You could then feed all the handout families apples.

 

And then you could ask them "How do ya like them apples?"

[3rdnlng]

And then you could ask them "How do ya like them apples?"

 

Jboyst has come up with a brilliant solution to our healthcare problem. You know, an apple a day................................We can now finally all agree to throw Obamacare in the dumpster.

[boyst]

 

 

Jboyst has come up with a brilliant solution to our healthcare problem. You know, an apple a day................................We can now finally all agree to throw Obamacare in the dumpster.

Not to take away humor because we all like to laugh at Thomas but the idea is basic a fullproof. There is land across this country that is federally owned or contracted. Why can't we take the unemployed and able bodied welfarers and put them farming that land? Vegetables, fruits, nuts and more... You can learn a LOT of valuable skills in agriculture and most importantly those with skills can contribute.

 

The best part is companies would sponsor it. Pioneer, Kroger, Walmart, ADM, etc can give it the startups seeds. Deere or other companies could be leased.

 

Work for your food. Work for your check.

[ExiledInIllinois]

What is the total % of the federal budget spent on welfare? About 5%? Of that welfare %, how much is spent on the non-working poor? About 10% of that 5%?

 

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3677

 

Penny wise pound foolish and the 85 billion out of 3.8 trillion. That is what 3%. Anyway, something tells me testing these deadbeats may not exactly save us anything...

 

 

[3rdnlng]

What is the total % of the federal budget spent on welfare? About 5%? Of that welfare %, how much is spent on the non-working poor? About 10% of that 5%?

 

http://www.cbpp.org/...fa=view&id=3677

 

Penny wise pound foolish and the 85 billion out of 3.8 trillion. That is what 3%. Anyway, something tells me testing these deadbeats may not exactly save us anything...

 

Well the government would certainly disagree with you. Their latest hissy fit has shut down WH tours, laid off TSA people and threatened real harm to our military. Obama obviously is "crying wolf" for pure political reasons. You're right, he's a douche.

[Doc]

Why not shovel for a check? Do you know how much many Hispanic guys get for just one day of farm work? $80-100. That's a lot. That's a whole lot.

You know what you could do with 50 people and a shovel, 50 people and a wheel barrel and 50 people with a rake and 50 people with apple tree saps? You could grade 20 acres and plant 300 apple trees to feed people.

Then get 20 people to tend that land and keep the trees alive.

Then 50 people to pick and package the apples.

You could then feed all the handout families apples.

Yes, but are those people shovel-ready?

[dayman]

What is the total % of the federal budget spent on welfare? About 5%? Of that welfare %, how much is spent on the non-working poor? About 10% of that 5%?

 

http://www.cbpp.org/...fa=view&id=3677

 

Penny wise pound foolish and the 85 billion out of 3.8 trillion. That is what 3%. Anyway, something tells me testing these deadbeats may not exactly save us anything...

 

A frequent accusation of the right is that those lefties think with their hearts and not their heads. This issue, is merely an emotional one for the right.