billsfan714 Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Put me down for week 6 in the concussion pool.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Great point and it bolsters something I said earlier. It's immaterial if Kolb is better than TJax or not. One will be better than the other. We will presumably retain the better player AND the competition will make both of them better. In other words there's no chance that bringing Kolb in will make us weaker at that position. It only makes us stronger, even if TJax wins the job. You and others making this case have valid points. The counterpoint is that it may be difficult to determine the best QB for when it counts, from looking at performance in a red shirt and preseason.
bobobonators Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 For all the people saying that Kolb will finally shine behind the Bills OL, I think that we are going to see a drop off from the OL this season. Gone is Gailey and his quick, short passing game. Gone is Fitz and his ability to adjust blocking schemes vs blitzes. Gone is Levitre, arguably the best pass blocker on the Bills OL. In comes Kolb, one of the most sacked QBs in the NFL. This doesn't sound like a recipe for a good season by the OL. Yup. I just don't understand the point of letting go of Fitz but yet bringing in Kolb. Why waste any more money on a player like Kolb when he's no better than Tjax. What a joke. I could understand it if we didn't have Tjax and wanted to havve Kolb/rookie compete...but I see absolutely no point in having Kolb/tjax/rookie compete. Waste of money considering we have about 0 depth at numerous positions on this roster and haven't signed **** this offseason. Unless of course the coaching staff has absolutely no intention of drafting a QB this year, which would be another disaster. Perhaps shrewdness was the wrong word as it implies too high a level of intelligence.....but depending on Kolb's contract, it certainly could be a better cap situation for us......with a few assumptions. Assuming both Kolb & Fitz are of similar quality.....both being crappy starting NFL QBs.... .....and assuming the Bills intend for Kolb(Fitz) to be a backup to a rookie.... .....and assuming Kolb's contract is actually a 2 yr/6.5m deal with another 6.5m in incentives(for percent of snaps taken ala TJax's deal).... .....then the Bills will get what they want from their Kolb QB for less cap hit than had they retained Fitz.....even if Fitz had agreed to a 3m/year pay cut. (Assumed)Kolb is 6.5m + 10m Fitz dead cap hit = 16.5m over 2013/14 (Assumed)Fitz would have been 21m - 6m pay cut = 15m over 2013/14....plus another 4m dead if cut after 2014 totaling 19m. Which of course would have been 25m if Fitz refused to take a pay cut. That's a pretty big assumption, considering that if you COMBINE all of Kolb's numbers over the past 3 seasons (22 games), you get what Fitz gave us in one season (16 games).
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 By asking Fitz to take a pay cut and offering him a contract for 3m a year and starter incentives to make it 7, they already wanted two guys. Then signing Kolb, whose contract IMO is going to look a lot like that Fitz offer, makes me believe this was the plan all along. They needed to do the due diligence on the pro guys as much as the college guys. I don't think they offered Fitz $3 million for this year or next. The leaked verbiage (not confirmed nor denied by Fitz) was that they offered him a "4 year contract averaging $3 million a year". I don't think they seriously wanted 2 guys at that point, or they would have been willing to negotiate. Fitz was quoted saying he had an offer, but there was no give and take and they were never close. If the Bills had offered him $3 million this year, I think that's close enough to the $3.25 million he signed for that a deal could have been done. But that's just me and who knows *shrugs*
Kelly the Dog Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 I don't think they offered Fitz $3 million for this year or next. The leaked verbiage (not confirmed nor denied by Fitz) was that they offered him a "4 year contract averaging $3 million a year". I don't think they seriously wanted 2 guys at that point, or they would have been willing to negotiate. Fitz was quoted saying he had an offer, but there was no give and take and they were never close. If the Bills had offered him $3 million this year, I think that's close enough to the $3.25 million he signed for that a deal could have been done. But that's just me and who knows *shrugs* I think he thought he would get more on the open market, because of, say, Matt Moore 2 yr 8 m and the like. I'm pretty sure his offer was 3m a season and up to 7 in incentives.
Dr. Trooth Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Ive read this in other posts and still dont get the logic. How does signing a mediocre QB allow the Bills to draft lesser talent at #8? How does that make any sense? I agree Kolb is mediocre... but that is only when he actually plays... which won't ever be for a full season. The statement that Nassib is a lesser talent simply isn't even close to reality. He's top of the class. What everyone looks at are all of the measureables. All the stuff that adds up to potential but hardly ever do they consider what's between the ears... the one ingrediant that is the difference maker. No qb in this draft or on the Bills roster will out work or out study Nassib. When they're out partying, playing golf, or walking the mall, Nassib will be working out and studying film. That's who he is. The only thing Nassib needs is to adjust to the speed of the game. The rest he'll grasp because he'll put the time in. In a couple of years you'll see what Drew Brees looks like at 6'2" and thicker.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 So, if The Bills don't pick a QB at #8, they could see the top ten QBs listed here off the board because there are a lot of teams that pick ahead of us at #41 that need a developmental QB. Nanker, past draft history suggests that's probably unlikely. 2012: 4 QB taken in 1st round 2011: 6 QB taken before pick #41 (4 in 1st round) 2010: 2 QB taken in 1st round 2009: 3 QB taken in 1st round In 2012, the class included two highly-regarded prospects (Luck and RGIII) In 2011, the class included two highly-touted prospects (Newton and Gabbert) with 2 more who generated buzz (Ponder and Locker) 2010 was regarded as slimmer pickin's with the next guys taken at 48 and 85 ....wha wha wha..... It would be highly unusual to see 10 QB draft before #41 in any class, and especially unusual in that this class seems to be regarded as more akin to 2010 than 2011 or 2012, with many draft pundits asserting there isn't even one QB worthy of the 1st round. I doubt that'll happen, but in your list if the two QB the Bills favor most are (say) Wilson and Manuel, they may well feel comfortable waiting until #41 that one of them will be there.
BringBackFergy Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 I like the idea of taking Patterson at #8. I think you could put Patterson on the outside with Brad Smith or Graham or and put Stevie in the slot next to him and suddenly hiave a pick your poison scenario. This works well no matter who is throwing the ball next season, especially if you get Spiller and Jackson in the mix doing slants and screens. I'm sorry but I heard the same crap last year about our defense (Mario this, Anderson that, Gilmore blah blah blah)...we won't know a thing until Marrone shows us preseason game 1, 2 or 3. I remember how pi$$ed I was watching last year's preseason games and seeing how pathetic our D was...let's hope our offense responds well.
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Yup. I just don't understand the point of letting go of Fitz but yet bringing in Kolb. Why waste any more money on a player like Kolb when he's no better than Tjax. What a joke. Fan morale. I don't think Kolb is going to sell a lot of tickets, but if response here is any indication a lot of people will view it as at least a fresh approach to take in someone who has at least recently been thought of as an NFL starter and had a nice little win streak last year. I see lots of concerns re: Kolb but it's not a 100% hatable move. Too many fans would view keeping Fitz as treading water (myself included). Color me cynical, but this basically allows the Bills to proceed as they would have with Fitz as the starter, eyeing a better QB this year or next if they like one, while not being rushed into starting the guy. It's a new coat of paint on another year of "just wait till next year."
Kelly the Dog Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Fan morale. I don't think Kolb is going to sell a lot of tickets, but if response here is any indication a lot of people will view it as at least a fresh approach to take in someone who has at least recently been thought of as an NFL starter and had a nice little win streak last year. I see lots of concerns re: Kolb but it's not a 100% hatable move. Too many fans would view keeping Fitz as treading water (myself included). Color me cynical, but this basically allows the Bills to proceed as they would have with Fitz as the starter, eyeing a better QB this year or next if they like one, while not being rushed into starting the guy. It's a new coat of paint on another year of "just wait till next year." While I agree with most of that, what is the alternative? Unless you really believe this will stop them from taking a QB they like in the first two rounds, which I don't.
Dr. K Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) This is beyond a joke. The new regime has officially jumped the shark. 2-14, if that. Make new holes in the roster, fill them with players no better than before. It's not treading water, it's drowning. Edited March 31, 2013 by Dr. K
Dr. K Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 For all the people saying that Kolb will finally shine behind the Bills OL, I think that we are going to see a drop off from the OL this season. Gone is Gailey and his quick, short passing game. Gone is Fitz and his ability to adjust blocking schemes vs blitzes. Gone is Levitre, arguably the best pass blocker on the Bills OL. In comes Kolb, one of the most sacked QBs in the NFL. This doesn't sound like a recipe for a good season by the OL. Thank god for this breath of sanity. Those who think this new offense is going to put up numbers like Gailey's, either in the air OR on the ground, are delusional. The offensive line, which was less of a problem under Gailey's offensive plan, is going to be a major problem again. People are going to looking back to the good old days of Fitz at QB and Gailey as OC by the fourth game of the season, if not sooner. Why wouldn't any team stack the line, blitz like crazy, and defy the Bills to beat them? I haven't been this skeptical about the Bills decision making since Greggo dismantled the #2 defense in the league because he didn't like "fat guys" and went 3-13. Then drafted a 350-pound right tackle who was out of the league in five years.
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 While I agree with most of that, what is the alternative? Unless you really believe this will stop them from taking a QB they like in the first two rounds, which I don't. There really isn't one. My somber approach to this is the product of years of worthless promises, not this move in particular.
Virgil Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Yup. I just don't understand the point of letting go of Fitz but yet bringing in Kolb. Why waste any more money on a player like Kolb when he's no better than Tjax. What a joke. We don't know what the cost of cutting one of them will be yet. It may end up not costing us much to have a great open competition. I could also be wrong
jaybee Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 This is beyond a joke. 2-14, if that. Care to place a wager on that ? I say Bills win 3 or more. Care to make a wager ? Easy bet I'd think since you are in the know, right? . No ? Put your money where your keyboard is. Thanx, jb
BillsBytheBay Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 This is beyond a joke. The new regime has officially jumped the shark. 2-14, if that. Make new holes in the roster, fill them with players no better than before. It's not treading water, it's drowning. well, a brand new coaching staff is entitled to make drastic changes IMHO. Especially in the first year. Doug is not Chan. Doug, I'm sure doesn't value players the same way Chan did. Nah, your right. Give me the nails. Lets put'em in the coffin.
BADOLBILZ Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 I sure can: http://espn.go.com/n...ade-second-time Meh, not really, that team had been in the AFC Championship game 14 months earlier and that QB had won a playoff game just a couple months earlier. They had detractors, but they weren't universally discounted because of their utter futility like the Bills and Kolb. Usually, laughingstock teams develop their own premium comic talent. As we well know. This is kinda' like the Clippers TRADING for Benoit Benjamin.
Leelee Phoenix Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Fan morale. I don't think Kolb is going to sell a lot of tickets, but if response here is any indication a lot of people will view it as at least a fresh approach to take in someone who has at least recently been thought of as an NFL starter and had a nice little win streak last year. The Bills can throw whatever out there, and the fans will show up. And this isn't even the biggest Bills homer board out there. It's sad.
ALF Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 It is what it is, no matter what the fans think at least we have a NFL team. A new owner and stadium , leaves us with hope.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 Great point and it bolsters something I said earlier. It's immaterial if Kolb is better than TJax or not. One will be better than the other. We will presumably retain the better player AND the competition will make both of them better. In other words there's no chance that bringing Kolb in will make us weaker at that position. It only makes us stronger, even if TJax wins the job. I gotta disagree with you there. A big part of the Bills problem in the last 13 years has been the "culture of losing". I find it hard to believe that there isn't a player on the team that isn't going "wtf is this team doing?" with that signing. And then the info that his contract may be worth $13M over two years?
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