Cannot believe the lack of respect for Levitre from this board

[bmur66]

He came to Washington West Elementary and my 9 year old son thinks he is the best Bill ever. Very sad to see him go. It's even sadder that the Bills apparently never even talked to him or made him an offer. Why the heck not?

Edited March 13, 2013 by bmur66

[K-9]

Who should be voting for the HOF is an open question, at least to me. See above about Football Outsiders. I'll confess to being a huge fan of sabermetrics in baseball and of Nate Silver, although I realize such methods are trickier in football because of the moving parts. But I'll take statistical analysis any day over impressionistic assessments.

 

I love Nate Silver, too.

 

But my main problem with PFF and others is that their assessments, ESPECIALLY those for OLmen, lack context. Do you think Levitre and his agent used PFF's analysis for leverage in their negotiations? I highly doubt it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Packerland Bills Fan]

I hate to see him go, but he got a Derrick Dockery contract. He'd be near the top of the list for potential salary cap cuts down the line.

 

Who really knows what conversations were held with him and his agent a year or more ago? What figures were exchanged if any? Without that we don't truly know how serious they were about locking him up.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I love Nate Silver, too.

 

But my main problem with PFF and others is that their assessments, ESPECIALLY those for OLmen, lack context. Do you think Levitre and his agent used PFF's analysis for leverage in their negotiations? I highly doubt it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

No, but I'm sure the Titans used something like it in their evaluation of him.

[dave mcbride]

I love Nate Silver, too.

 

But my main problem with PFF and others is that their assessments, ESPECIALLY those for OLmen, lack context. Do you think Levitre and his agent used PFF's analysis for leverage in their negotiations? I highly doubt it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I totally agree that it's very hard to assess guys -- especially interior linemen -- in football, but statistical analysis that weighs every play is better than nothing. The Bills line had a good year this past season, and the best guy on it was Levitre. Wood is a good player too, and I have hope for Glenn. For what it's worth, though, the Jets had very good line play too, so maybe Brandon Moore can adequately fill the slot.

[K-9]

I hate to see him go, but he got a Derrick Dockery contract. He'd be near the top of the list for potential salary cap cuts down the line.

 

Who really knows what conversations were held with him and his agent a year or more ago? What figures were exchanged if any? Without that we don't truly know how serious they were about locking him up.

 

He got a far better contract. It's all about the guaranteed money in the NFL world. Levitre reportedly got 26m guaranteed. That's twice as much as Dockery and over one less year to boot.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[ricojes]

He came to Washington West Elementary and my 9 year old son thinks he is the best Bill ever. Very sad to see him go. It's even sadder that the Bills apparently never even talked to him or made him an offer. Why the heck not?

personally, I think the no contact is over exaggerated. I believe the Bills probably contacted AL's agent at some point and time and simply asked the number. My guess is it was probably at least 6 mil and up. If the Bills were thinking 4 mil max or something, is it more of an insult to contact AL and offer well below his asking price or not to contact him directly at all. I don't know which is worse, but I truly believe the Bills knew he was priced out of their budget.

 

And it also makes the player look less greedy if he says there was no contact. If he comes out and says they wouldn't give me enough, he's alienated by the fans...

Edited March 13, 2013 by ricojes

[K-9]

I totally agree that it's very hard to assess guys -- especially interior linemen -- in football, but statistical analysis that weighs every play is better than nothing. The Bills line had a good year this past season, and the best guy on it was Levitre. Wood is a good player too, and I have hope for Glenn. For what it's worth, though, the Jets had very good line play too, so maybe Brandon Moore can adequately fill the slot.

 

At the risk of further offending the faithful, I think Brandon Flowers is better. Now, I know he plays between two Pro Bowlers, but when I isolate him I see a more dominant player at the POA more often than I do Levitre.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

I love Nate Silver, too.

 

But my main problem with PFF and others is that their assessments, ESPECIALLY those for OLmen, lack context. Do you think Levitre and his agent used PFF's analysis for leverage in their negotiations? I highly doubt it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Absolutely I think they did. And the Bills, in negotiations, said stuff like, "Those aren't real stats and those guys are amateurs!"

 

And then when PFF has lousy numbers on players, the Bills say "Look at his PFF numbers!" And the player and the agent say, "Those aren't real stats and those guys are amateurs!"

[eball]

personally, I think the no contact is over exaggerated. I believe the Bills probably contacted AL's agent at some point and time and simply asked the number. My guess is it was probably at least 6 mil and up. If the Bills were thinking 4 mil max or something, is it more of an insult to contact AL and offer well below his asking price or not to contact him directly at all. I don't know which is worse, but I truly believe the Bills knew he was priced out of their budget.

 

Thank you. I'd like for someone who believes there was "no contact" to please come up with a specific quote from Levitre or his agent that the Bills NEVER talked to them about an extension at any point during the last year or so. You won't find one. The Bills knew last season Levitre would be set to make a fortune, and knew at that same time they weren't going to want to pay it with the other roster holes to fill.

 

That anyone actually believes the Bills had "no contact" with Levitre or his people is absolutely ridiculous and naive.

[TC in St. Louis]

He signed about 5 minutes into Free Agency. The deal was done. Butty knew he wasn't going to be able to hit Andy's number. Maybe that's why he drafted Zebrie Sanders. Don't forget that guy.

 

A few years ago the Giants went to the Super Bowl with Glenn Parker and Dusty Ziegler on their line....castoffs by the Bills.

 

It is the scheme, not the talent, that makes the line click. Well, clarify that. You have to be an NFL Calibre player to be on the line, but if coached up, the line will be a success.

 

Levitre was a very good player for us. We'll miss him. He could blow out a knee the first day of practice. Like Damien Woody when he got to Cleveland. Stuff happens.

[Lurker]

IWay too much of your cap tied up in one of the easiest positions to replace.

The operative phrase here.

 

Andy was an excellent player, but when your're doing triage like the Bills are this year, you can't devote that much of the budget to a position that can be filled at one-third to a half the price with a player likely 90% as effective.

 

Put that $7.8 million into the WR or LB budget and help the team in a bigger way...

[clearwater cadet]

I think we should be more concerned about Donald Jones.

[bobobonators]

though i really liked Levitre, he wasn't dominant. He was good, but not dominant. At 8mil/year I want/expect dominance. The bills offensive line time and time again had 3rd and shorts or 4th and inches and consistently failed to gain a few inches in the running game. Levitre was part of that offensive line that when push came to shove, got pushed around.

 

Wish him nothing but the best.

Edited March 13, 2013 by bobobonators

[Lurker]

That anyone actually believes the Bills had "no contact" with Levitre or his people is absolutely ridiculous and naive.

Come on, Eball...no one on TSW is absolutely ridiculous or naive

Edited March 13, 2013 by Lurker

[Rob's House]

He came to Washington West Elementary and my 9 year old son thinks he is the best Bill ever. Very sad to see him go. It's even sadder that the Bills apparently never even talked to him or made him an offer. Why the heck not?

Link?

[K-9]

Absolutely I think they did. And the Bills, in negotiations, said stuff like, "Those aren't real stats and those guys are amateurs!"

 

And then when PFF has lousy numbers on players, the Bills say "Look at his PFF numbers!" And the player and the agent say, "Those aren't real stats and those guys are amateurs!"

 

So, the Bills pooh-poohed the PFF rankings and the Titans didn't?

 

Well, I hope Andy didn't use PFF in his pitch because he would have gotten top-9 money instead of top-4 cash.

 

From PFF themselves:

 

Andy Levitre (OG) to TEN: 6-year, $46.8m deal

 

"We like Levitre. He was our ninth ranked guard and can really hold up in the pass blocking game. But is he a player that is going to be the difference between the Titans winning and losing games? In all honesty no. He’s not a difference maker in the run game, and while good in space, he’s getting considerably more money than guards like Evan Mathis and Ben Grubbs who are just far better players. The Titans got their man, but at the end of the day, they’ve spent a lot of money over a long period without pushing their team on."

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[RyanC883]

If we were the Patriots letting Mankins go, I'd agree with you. We're not, though, and need to fill other spots before paying a guard $25 million guaranteed.

Exactly. This is not a lack of respect. It's a business decision. There is only so much money to be spent, and a good guard is easier to find than a center like Wood, a safety like Byrd, or a RB like Spiller. How about the "respect" Andy could have shown Bills fans by taking a home-town discount? He didn't, why, because he made a business decision for himself.

[thebandit27]

though i really liked Levitre, he wasn't dominant. He was good, but not dominant. At 8mil/year I want/expect dominance. The bills offensive line time and time again had 3rd and shorts or 4th and inches and consistently failed to gain a few inches in the running game. Levitre was part of that offensive line that when push came to shove, got pushed around.

 

Wish him nothing but the best.

 

I totally agree with this

[bobobonators]

So, the Bills pooh-poohed the PFF rankings and the Titans didn't?

 

Well, I hope Andy didn't use PFF in his pitch because he would have gotten top-9 money instead of top-4 cash.

 

From PFF themselves:

 

Andy Levitre (OG) to TEN: 6-year, $46.8m deal

 

"We like Levitre. He was our ninth ranked guard and can really hold up in the pass blocking game. But is he a player that is going to be the difference between the Titans winning and losing games? In all honesty no. He’s not a difference maker in the run game, and while good in space, he’s getting considerably more money than guards like Evan Mathis and Ben Grubbs who are just far better players. The Titans got their man, but at the end of the day, they’ve spent a lot of money over a long period without pushing their team on."

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The one caveat that needs to be stated, however, is that Levitre was the top rated Guard in FA this season. Limited supply and high demand = overpaying.

 

Wallace is probably not even in the top 15 at WR in the NFL, yet look what he got paid. He was the biggest name WR in FA right now, that's why.

 

I'd rather not grossly overpay however and think the Bills made a tough, tough choice..but the right one.

Edited March 13, 2013 by bobobonators