JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 Andy Levitre? Overpaid and underproductive...???? What are these guys smoking? If the Bills cut every overpaid and underproductive player they would have five or six players on the team. Unfortunately Levitre was one of the few who were productive. Levitre wasn't cut, he left via free agency to become the 4th highest paid guard in the league.
Fan in Chicago Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Unanimous reply: Jets. All were thrilled with the fact we actually are recognizing (and cutting) overpaid, underperforming veterans who have proven they cannot help us win and now have some cap space to be flexible while retaining young talented pieces at skill positions. Why do I not feel like celebrating ? I wish I could share in said thrill.
Coach Tuesday Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 You are so right, why would Nix not draft a guard in the 2012 draft instead of wasting a pick on Mark Asper. What position does Asper play again? Does anyone know? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm They drafted him to play center, and then cut him.
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Drafting a 26-year-old guard, even in the sixth round, and then releasing him is terribly embarrassing for a professional GM. no it's not. It actually is fairly common. In fact, in 2012, 3 guards were drafted in the 6th round, and all of them were cut before the regular season. 6th round picks are not a lock to make the team.
JohnC Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 John: The same guy who is responsible for those poor-value vet contracts is still making the decisions. And he did nothing to anticipate these departures. The difference between the Bills and teams like the Ravens is that the Ravens do a better job of anticipating and planning for these types of events. You keep saying that you're ok with letting Levitre walk. I think you're being somewhat shortsighted. Levitre should've been locked up LAST YEAR. Or, alternatively, if Nix knew that he wasn't going to lock him up last year, his replacement should've been drafted or signed LAST YEAR. Nix could've drafted a guard instead of wasting picks on Ron Brooks, Tank Carder, Mark Asper, and John Potter. Instead, he once again demonstrated his ineptness as a GM by failing to address an upcoming departure. The result is that we have as many holes on the roster as we did when Nix took over, and not enough draft picks to fill the void. We're staring at a 1-15 season and anyone who doesn't see this is a fool. If you are asking me to defend Nix you are very much mistakened. For a very long time I have vociferously challenged his fitness for the job. And for a very long time I have clearly stated that he is responsible for the state of the Bills. But let's be fair. The cap system is designed for player movement. The players aren't fools. If they believe that they can reach the market and have leverage they will understandably exercise that leverage for their benefit. More power to them. You have to put the Levitre free market situation in the context that Wood will be a free agent next year or the year after. Giving Levitre a golden contract could severely curtail their ability to sign Woods. You bring up the example that Baltimore is much more adept at handling their roster and cap issues. That is without a doubt. Comparing their GM, Ozzie Newsome, to our GM is like comparing a thoroughbred to a beaten down mule. It is what it is. My basic point in the prior post is that while there is a bitter chorus of lamentation over the recent player transactions I have found some encouragement that the Bills are functioning at a smarter level than they normally do. The worst thing that this front office could have done is to panic and force the issue with overpaying for a guard and keeping Fitz at his original contract. If the Bills rebound with some good value free agent pickups then I will be encouraged that this odd duck organization is functioning at a normal manner. Getting back to respectability is going to take time. Doing things the right way may not be sexy in the short run but in the long run it pays off.
thewildrabbit Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Unanimous reply: Jets. All were thrilled with the fact we actually are recognizing (and cutting) overpaid, underperforming veterans who have proven they cannot help us win and now have some cap space to be flexible while retaining young talented pieces at skill positions. Yea the Jets currently look worse off then the Bills because they had a moron for a GM who overpaid his QB / other free agents while moving the team into salary cap hell. Hired the wrong OC tried to change the basic formula from what made them a winning team, (play great defense and run the ball) to all out passing with a 3 year QB who wasn't fully developed. At least the Jets took a shot at finding the franchise QB tho. I'd be willing to bet that because the NY Jets owner cares more about winning games then the Buffalo Bills owner does that the Jets will make the playoffs before the Bills. The Jets will make the correct moves in the front office to correct the problems. It won't take them a decade to be in the playoffs again. A few years ago Bills fans were making fun of Jeff Ireland, the Dolphins GM. Now which fans are laughing? Edited March 13, 2013 by FeartheLosing
Rinlo Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 There is a lot of desperate griping that the franchise is collapsing, especially with the beginning of free agency and the loss of Levitre and releasing of Fitz. But I see things a little differently. As you smartly noted this roster is steadily being shedded of the older players and poor value contracts. Kelsay, Wilson, Barnett and Fitz are an example of that process. The Levitre departure is simply an inevitable product of the cap system. No team is immune from losing good players to the market. Look at what is going on with the Ravens. In my opinion the problem is not just the loss of Fitz and Levitre, it is the future loss of Byrd. Going into this FA, our two most important players made comments about what they wanted. One said he wants to play for a winning team and the other said he wants to get paid. We franchised the one who wants to win, because we have no other way to keep him and we let the guy go who all we had to do was pay (and we could pay him). Since I dont see this team winning in the near future because we are back in another rebuilding phase (no matter what anyone in the organization says), Byrd will NOT be signing another contract with the Bills and he will go into FA after this year (or whenever the Bills can no longer use the franchise tag on him) and end up on another team. Nix has managed to do exactly what he said he wouldn't and let go of good players that had been drafted by the team (whether or not he drafted them makes no difference, it a youth movement thing). Get ready for at least three more years of mediocrity Bills fans
JPS Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Drafting a 26-year-old guard, even in the sixth round, and then releasing him is terribly embarrassing for a professional GM. Drafting Asper only to release him so you can keep the Colin Brown's of the world is a joke. The problem is, and I think we'll all agree, Buddy Nix has no strategic vision of what this team should look like. I sincerely hope Doug Whaley does have such a vision.....like obtaining a Center this year because you may lose Wood next. Drafting a QB this year....and then again until a real QB emerges. Really guys, for this year it doesn't matter. Both teams suck.
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 My favorite part about this place has to be how the cuts the Bills have made so far, aside from Nelson and letting Levitre go, were all moves that people were asking for anyways, now that they happen and the Bills have yet to sign anyone 2/3rds into the first 24 hours of Free Agency, the sky is falling and they will be lucky to win a game this year I was expecting alot more people here saying that the Bills are in Deeper **** then the Jets though just because they are the Bills, while applauding the Jets front office for the moves they have been making so far........... I think ever since the tebow trade, the media likes to bash on the jests for almost anything, and I think that will only continue until Rex/sanchez is gone. We have done the right things so far... we cut ties with players that just were not going to get it done for us. The next part of getting the players we need is the tricky part. I think that if we get: a QB that is better than fitz, one of the 2nd tier WRs, a decent MLB, A decent OG, and a stop gap TE, I think we can go 8-8 this season. Now, if by some stroke of luck we get a QB that can light it up, anything can happen. And of course, the more likely scenario, we plug in holes, some work, some don't, and we are 6-10 or worse.
KeisterHollow Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Funny you mention the Jets, because I seem to recall them going all in on a QB not that long ago. In fact, some would say they doubled down in the trade with the Broncos for another QB that led a team to the playoffs. But, to look at the Jets now, one generally sees them in free fall. Point being, that it's easy to say it. Daggummit, even Buddy Nix has said it. Countless times now. But there is a world of difference between saying it and actually finding a Hall of Fame caliber QB. I agree - there's no science to drafting. Yet - and this is where I get worried - the guys who are supposed to be the best in the WORLD at detecting talent in players, Nix and whoever else has been making the decisions on draft day, has passed on Kaepernick, Dalton, Wilson, Cousins - just to name the first four that come to mind, over the last few years! Even I saw Wilson and Kaepernick were excellent value in the second round. The fact that Buffalo has been so starved of good QB play and leadership, you'd think they'd get aggressive and take chances on guys. That logic has also been shrugged off. I have to question, now, Nix's ability to evaluate talent at the college QB level, because how else can you account for the misses? If I were the GM of this franchise, with it's record of failure at the position, and my own record of ineptitude at finding a quality, franchise QB, I'd look to hire experts - guys who have proven record of finding the gems - and get their input. There's simply no excuse, when you get down to it, for Buffalo to be in this situation; and that much more inexcusable for Buffalo not to come away from this draft with the QB they want, even if they have to draft him "early".
Captain Hindsight Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Yea the Jets currently look worse off then the Bills because they had a moron for a GM who overpaid his QB / other free agents while moving the team into salary cap hell. Hired the wrong OC tried to change the basic formula from what made them a winning team, (play great defense and run the ball) to all out passing with a 3 year QB who wasn't fully developed. At least the Jets took a shot at finding the franchise QB tho. I'd be willing to bet that because the NY Jets owner cares more about winning games then the Buffalo Bills owner does that the Jets will make the playoffs before the Bills. The Jets will make the correct moves in the front office to correct the problems. It won't take them a decade to be in the playoffs again. A few years ago Bills fans were making fun of Jeff Ireland, the Dolphins GM. Now which fans are laughing? Is that why they are trading their best player?
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 If you are asking me to defend Nix you are very much mistakened. For a very long time I have vociferously challenged his fitness for the job. And for a very long time I have clearly stated that he is responsible for the state of the Bills. But let's be fair. The cap system is designed for player movement. The players aren't fools. If they believe that they can reach the market and have leverage they will understandably exercise that leverage for their benefit. More power to them. You have to put the Levitre free market situation in the context that Wood will be a free agent next year or the year after. Giving Levitre a golden contract could severely curtail their ability to sign Woods. You bring up the example that Baltimore is much more adept at handling their roster and cap issues. That is without a doubt. Comparing their GM, Ozzie Newsome, to our GM is like comparing a thoroughbred to a beaten down mule. It is what it is. My basic point in the prior post is that while there is a bitter chorus of lamentation over the recent player transactions I have found some encouragement that the Bills are functioning at a smarter level than they normally do. The worst thing that this front office could have done is to panic and force the issue with overpaying for a guard and keeping Fitz at his original contract. If the Bills rebound with some good value free agent pickups then I will be encouraged that this odd duck organization is functioning at a normal manner. Getting back to respectability is going to take time. Doing things the right way may not be sexy in the short run but in the long run it pays off. I'm not sure that "saving cap" equates directly to "the right way". Not signing Levitre makes sense if they were working on a cheaper contract with some other veteran. Instead, they were busy dialing some kids in Florida. If you know you can't live with the deal you just gave your starting QB, then "the right way" would seem to be to make some sort of move at the position and not wait until a week or so before the bonus is due. Sure, the Bills aren't hitting on the Mario Williams big name free agent this spin of the wheel, but to say they are executing flawlessly on a well-considered plan appears entirely laughable. Building a winner takes more than signing another Cornell Green type bargain patch for the OL and talking about drafting a QB.
Coach Tuesday Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 But let's be fair. The cap system is designed for player movement. The players aren't fools. If they believe that they can reach the market and have leverage they will understandably exercise that leverage for their benefit. More power to them. You have to put the Levitre free market situation in the context that Wood will be a free agent next year or the year after. Giving Levitre a golden contract could severely curtail their ability to sign Woods. This is where we keep talking past each other. I agree with your point. My point is different: a good GM should've anticipated this possibility and aquired a suitable replacement for Levitre well before this offseason. That's what GMs like Newsome and Ted Thompson do. Successful teams have plenty of roster turnover, but they remain successful because they've planned for those contingencies and have ready replacements on their roster. Buddy Nix has PROVEN with 100% certitude that he does not know how to build an NFL team for success. In most other business, he'd have been fired.
ny33 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 no it's not. It actually is fairly common. In fact, in 2012, 3 guards were drafted in the 6th round, and all of them were cut before the regular season. 6th round picks are not a lock to make the team. My point is that Asper was a fairly old prospect. You'd hope that a guy like that isn't raw and should be expected to be a decent backup given his age.
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Drafting Asper only to release him so you can keep the Colin Brown's of the world is a joke. The problem is, and I think we'll all agree, Buddy Nix has no strategic vision of what this team should look like. I sincerely hope Doug Whaley does have such a vision.....like obtaining a Center this year because you may lose Wood next. Drafting a QB this year....and then again until a real QB emerges. Really guys, for this year it doesn't matter. Both teams suck. out of all the things you can bash nix for, you are bashing him for drafting and releasing Asper and keeping Colin Brown, our only backup center? That is hardly a joke. They are both backup players that would have had no impact on this team at all last season. Keep Asper over Brown wouldn't win more games, get them more points, save chan's job, fix Fitz's QBR, or make Nix look any better. It is a meaningless move that teams make all the time. A lot of 6th rounders don't make the team. Nix may be joke of a GM in a lot of ways, but it has nothing to do with this move. What is a joke is that you are making this the defining moment when it is a move that doesn't matter either way.
Captain Hindsight Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I agree - there's no science to drafting. Yet - and this is where I get worried - the guys who are supposed to be the best in the WORLD at detecting talent in players, Nix and whoever else has been making the decisions on draft day, has passed on Kaepernick, Dalton, Wilson, Cousins - just to name the first four that come to mind, over the last few years! Even I saw Wilson and Kaepernick were excellent value in the second round. The fact that Buffalo has been so starved of good QB play and leadership, you'd think they'd get aggressive and take chances on guys. That logic has also been shrugged off. I have to question, now, Nix's ability to evaluate talent at the college QB level, because how else can you account for the misses? If I were the GM of this franchise, with it's record of failure at the position, and my own record of ineptitude at finding a quality, franchise QB, I'd look to hire experts - guys who have proven record of finding the gems - and get their input. There's simply no excuse, when you get down to it, for Buffalo to be in this situation; and that much more inexcusable for Buffalo not to come away from this draft with the QB they want, even if they have to draft him "early". My hunch was the plan was to build a good team then insert the QB and go. When Fitz was signed to that contract he was playing pretty damn well. My hindsight abilities are stronger than most, clearly this didnt work out. I have a hard time throwing this man to the curb for missing that. Lots of smart coaches and GMs look pretty dumb when they don't have Brady, Favre, Hasselbeck, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, John Elway or Payton Manning.
thewildrabbit Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) This is where we keep talking past each other. I agree with your point. My point is different: a good GM should've anticipated this possibility and aquired a suitable replacement for Levitre well before this offseason. That's what GMs like Newsome and Ted Thompson do. Successful teams have plenty of roster turnover, but they remain successful because they've planned for those contingencies and have ready replacements on their roster. Buddy Nix has PROVEN with 100% certitude that he does not know how to build an NFL team for success. In most other business, he'd have been fired. Only Ralph Wilson would hire a 70 year old retired ex head scout to be GM in the first place. Wilson has to be out of his mind to allow Buddy Nix to pay a DE 100 million when he should have easily found a pass rusher in the draft the last two years. That is what handcuffed this team, not the mildly overpaid QB. Jeez, the Ravens are paying their QB 20 mill per, how in the world will they ever field a decent team again Edited March 13, 2013 by FeartheLosing
JohnC Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 In my opinion the problem is not just the loss of Fitz and Levitre, it is the future loss of Byrd. Going into this FA, our two most important players made comments about what they wanted. One said he wants to play for a winning team and the other said he wants to get paid. We franchised the one who wants to win, because we have no other way to keep him and we let the guy go who all we had to do was pay (and we could pay him). Since I dont see this team winning in the near future because we are back in another rebuilding phase (no matter what anyone in the organization says), Byrd will NOT be signing another contract with the Bills and he will go into FA after this year (or whenever the Bills can no longer use the franchise tag on him) and end up on another team. Nix has managed to do exactly what he said he wouldn't and let go of good players that had been drafted by the team (whether or not he drafted them makes no difference, it a youth movement thing). Get ready for at least three more years of mediocrity Bills fans Are the Bills rebuilding? Yes. There is no magical quick fix for this misshaped roster. To put it mildly I'm not a Nix supporter. But since the Brandon takeover and the hiring of Marrone the roster is being adjusted with the shedding of the older players and poor value contracts. It is not being done in a dramatic fashion but it is being done in a steady and consistent manner. People who are automatically going into panic mode because the of torrid behavior of other teams won't notice that the Bills are reacting in a very responsible for a franchise in their position. Instead of jumping to conclusions that this franchise is falling off the clip after the first frenzied week of free agency just wait and see if this front office can bring in some quality players at good valued contracts. Let's wait and see what the Bills do in the draft. I'm far from being a homer that everything that this bedraggled organization does is right. I have criticized Nix as harshly as anyone on this board. But to be fair when this front office behaves in a responsible manner it should be acknowledged. From my perspective it isn't all gloom and doom. It's a long road to respectability but at least they are moving in the right direction.
Wayne Cubed Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) This is where we keep talking past each other. I agree with your point. My point is different: a good GM should've anticipated this possibility and aquired a suitable replacement for Levitre well before this offseason. That's what GMs like Newsome and Ted Thompson do. Successful teams have plenty of roster turnover, but they remain successful because they've planned for those contingencies and have ready replacements on their roster. Buddy Nix has PROVEN with 100% certitude that he does not know how to build an NFL team for success. In most other business, he'd have been fired. Free Agency is 22 hours old, not to mention the draft is approaching. Are you saying it doesn't count if he finds a replacement this way? As to your other point and I've heard this from a bunch of people. It's not that simple to just lock a player up the previous year. That player has to a.) come to the negotiating table and b.) actually want to sign with the team. Is it that far fetched to believe that Levitre just didn't want to resign with the Bills? That he wanted to be a free agent and see how much money he could get... Edited March 13, 2013 by Wayne Cubed
Meathead Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 fitz was playing at a probowl level when buddy gave him that extension. fitz went on to pull a jauron/stafford immediately after that, but you cant really fault the gm for trying to retain their previous level of performance before it got more expensive the one thing buddy deserves to be fired for is not having a qb in the pipeline. i realize things didnt fall right for them in the earliest rounds but he should have been taking a 3rd round flyer on somebody every other season at least. you cant stumble into a middle round gem if youre not drafting one and on this qb starved team thats a fatal mistake
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