Doomsday - March 12, 2013

[BuffBill]

with Fitz gone...the Bills might win 3rd place in the division--instead of 4th

They might, but right now the Jets have two QBs better then anything we have. Gonna be like two different divisions in the AFC East, the Pats and Dolphins up top and the Bills and Jets scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

[QCity]

There's no restoring faith, certainly not between now and the season opener. We were told that we have the talent and bringing in just a few pieces and a new coaching staff to be relevant. Well, that turned out to be a lie.

 

We now will have 5 new starters on offense on opening Sunday, one of which will be a rookie qb. The defense, regardless of lip service will be a 3-4. There will be between 4-6 new starters, or at least players switching to positions they haven't played a lot.

 

Bills are waiting a few days to let the dust settle to pick up serviceable vets... as are the Pats. If you're a free agent looking for work, where do you want to play... on a team with no defined QB and a no shot at a ring, or the opposite?

 

I won't say that their strategy won't ultimately work out three to four years from now, but the FO could and should have been up front with the fans and let us know this was a total rebuild.

 

As I mentioned in your other thread, losing a backup quality QB and a guard does not constitute a "total rebuild." The only lie you were fed was the one told by yourself over and over. There was zero chance of us paying Fitz $10M, sorry you didn't see that but the sour grapes routine is way over the top.

[Dan]

thank you for this JW. It's gonna take some time. Probably 3 full years this time. This has already shown its not going to be a 1-2 season patch job and get back out there. I truly feel we are in all-out rebuilding mode and they are fine with it, for once. And honestly, I am as well. We can't keep going into every season wanting to be good, but also want top picks in the draft to help us succeed.

 

Given lack of lbs anything can help. Can't break bank, though.

Tried that last year and the dockery/Langston year, and the tko year, and the Bledsoe year ... This team needs patience and stability, something that always seems to be forgotten in the mad rush for change.

 

jw

Seriously? Patience and 3 years to "rebuild" and become competitive?

 

Nix has been here and been calling all the shots for 3 years already. I, for one, had patience and let him make the drafts and stuck by Chan and Fitz and the whole thing... well now Nix has aborted that baby and we're back to courting a new girl. And I have to wait 3 more years to see how this one turns out? I'm sorry, but that's just asinine.

 

Nix and Ralph said 3 years ago, it was going to take time; they had a plan and it was going to take patience. I suppose it was a 6 year plan that required a lot of mediocre player movements and coaching changings. Whatever. For this fan, the patience has run out. Field a winning team or find someone that can, but I have zero confidence that there's any plan or ability to field a winning team within One Bills Drive.

[RyanC883]

My expectations were to resign two of the 4-5 quality players we had drafted in the last 5 years, Byrd and Levitre.

Of course my expectations were not met.

 

Forget that. Levitre is overpaid. If we paid him that much to come in from another team to upgrade Urbik everyone would be going nuts about that in a negative way (how will we keep Wood, Byrd long term, Spiller, etc.). You can't overpay your own FA just like you can't overpay to get someone from another team. Levitre is good, but not 8 million good when you have the cap and will need space for Wood, Byrd, etc.

 

Seriously? Patience and 3 years to "rebuild" and become competitive?

 

Nix has been here and been calling all the shots for 3 years already. I, for one, had patience and let him make the drafts and stuck by Chan and Fitz and the whole thing... well now Nix has aborted that baby and we're back to courting a new girl. And I have to wait 3 more years to see how this one turns out? I'm sorry, but that's just asinine.

 

Nix and Ralph said 3 years ago, it was going to take time; they had a plan and it was going to take patience. I suppose it was a 6 year plan that required a lot of mediocre player movements and coaching changings. Whatever. For this fan, the patience has run out. Field a winning team or find someone that can, but I have zero confidence that there's any plan or ability to field a winning team within One Bills Drive.

 

I'm a Bills/Pirates fan. i've been hearing this crap about "patience" for a loooooong time. At least I have the Pens. To all the Sabers fans, sweet job beating the Rangers. No one likes them.

[Delete This Account]

Seriously? Patience and 3 years to "rebuild" and become competitive?

 

Nix has been here and been calling all the shots for 3 years already. I, for one, had patience and let him make the drafts and stuck by Chan and Fitz and the whole thing... well now Nix has aborted that baby and we're back to courting a new girl. And I have to wait 3 more years to see how this one turns out? I'm sorry, but that's just asinine.

 

Nix and Ralph said 3 years ago, it was going to take time; they had a plan and it was going to take patience. I suppose it was a 6 year plan that required a lot of mediocre player movements and coaching changings. Whatever. For this fan, the patience has run out. Field a winning team or find someone that can, but I have zero confidence that there's any plan or ability to field a winning team within One Bills Drive.

 

and there is it, my point encapsulated in one post. it's the cart before the horse, the egg or the chicken. bills fans have lost patience by pushing for changes every 3 seasons, and yet the franchise needs to be patient to stop this never-ending cycle of change. and in the meantime, the fans get impatient by demanding more change, which leads to change, and the need for patience, which the impatient fans are running out of. rinse and repeat.

good luck with all that.

 

jw

Edited March 13, 2013 by john wawrow

[Buftex]

I am of the opinion that we were going to have to overpay Levitre to stay which is why he is not here now. I honestly believe he wanted out. So be it. Good luck in Tennessee.

 

 

Why do you think he wanted out? Is that a hunch? He has some relatives that come to watch the games on occaision at the bar I go for Bills games...my impression was that he loved Buffalo.

 

I think, more likely, he sat around waiting for the Bills to call...when the call never came, he started seeing/hearing his name near the top of most every "best free agents" list, and saw his asking price going up by the day.

[GG]

and there is it, my point encapsulated in one post. it's the cart before the horse, the egg or the chicken. bills fans have lost patience by pushing for changes every 3 seasons, and yet the franchise needs to be patient to stop this never-ending cycle of change. and in the meantime, the fans get impatient by demanding more change, which leads to change, and the need for patience, which the impatient fans are running out of. rinse and repeat.

good luck with all that.

 

jw

 

Actually, you have it backwards. Name another franchise where fans are asked in five consecutive 2-3 year periods to back a rebuilding plan? You brought up the previous rebuilding years. How is the story now different than before? It's not. Everyone knows that it will take time & patience. But after each successive attempt to preach patience, the team loses more confidence and that spills into anger. I am angry not because of the right personnel moves over the last week, but because the last three years were a sham.

 

Nobody is stupid enough to believe that this team is competitive now and we will have to wait a few years for the result. But the insult is that the story is spun by the same guys who ran the team into the ground the last time, and we're supposed to accept that things are going to be different now. Why?

Edited March 13, 2013 by GG

[Keukasmallies]

Believing in the Bills front office platitudes is more psychologically damaging that re-electing incumbents to political office!

[BillsVet]

Just listen to the guy talk.

 

You can tell hes out of his league. The fact that Russ Brandon continues to spew bull **** to the fans every year pisses me off even more. Does he actually believe what he says?

 

I would love to know why did the Bills not fire Buddy Nix when it became clear they had flamed out in 2012? Did they need more evidence his plan failed?

 

Given the nature of this franchise and their almost iron-curtain like lock on information they may have retained Nix to avoid further embarrassment. Which plausible reason does anyone provide for having the guy who failed in his first rebuild hang around for the second? That he has info on RW? Sure.

 

Smithers won't be taken seriously until Nix is gone. And as always, they're late doing that because the franchise is concerned about how things look.

[Dan]

and there is it, my point encapsulated in one post. it's the cart before the horse, the egg or the chicken. bills fans have lost patience by pushing for changes every 3 seasons, and yet the franchise needs to be patient to stop this never-ending cycle of change. and in the meantime, the fans get impatient by demanding more change, which leads to change, and the need for patience, which the impatient fans are running out of. rinse and repeat.

good luck with all that.

 

jw

I see you're point to a degree, but this team has dug this hole. Not the fans. Plenty of fans are and would be patient, if we had any semblance of a competitive team on Sundays. How long do you wait before making a change? For simplicity, lets just take the last regime. In 3 years, no winning record and an abyssmal division record. So, don't you have to make some change? You can't just keep status quo, can you? OK so fine, lets make some changes. But, now they're in wholesale, tear it down mode... new coaches throughout and a sifgnificant roster turnover. That tells me the last plan didn't work. OK. fine. But who's orchestrating the new turnover? The same people that did the last one. Now, why exactly should anyone have any comfidence that they suddenly know what they're doing?

 

I agree, this team is a mess. But, I hardly doubt its the fan's hope for change that's at the root of it... rather its the team's inability to consistently win more games than they lose.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Dan

[Fan in Chicago]

and there is it, my point encapsulated in one post. it's the cart before the horse, the egg or the chicken. bills fans have lost patience by pushing for changes every 3 seasons, and yet the franchise needs to be patient to stop this never-ending cycle of change. and in the meantime, the fans get impatient by demanding more change, which leads to change, and the need for patience, which the impatient fans are running out of. rinse and repeat.

good luck with all that.

 

jw

 

For arguments sake, John, what would you have recommended ? After last season it was eminently obvious that the franchise was not moving forward and indeed there were plenty of indications that it was regressing. After three years of rebuild, we were stuck in neutral. Unable to consistently win division games, becoming irrelevant by the half point of the season. Would you have recommended staying the course with Gailey, Fitz, Wannstedt ? At some point, you have to cut your losses. There have been some good moves made by the FO but not enough and not in the key departments to build a winner.

In year 4 of Buddy's regime, we are still struggling to fix the defense and have become desperate for a QB in a reportedly unspectacular draft class.

Patience is fine and I had offered plenty of it to Nix and co. during the first 2 years of their tenure. But when he did not see Fitz's limitations and insisted on going BPA with no consideration to drafting a QB in his third draft, my doubts started becoming a certainty - that he just does not know how to build a winner. How long did it take him to realize that a superior QB is a key to winning ? And if you say he already knew that, then why did he not make any major moves to address it ?

I understand patience but cannot ignore recent history either. We cannot keep doing the same things and expect success to magically drop into our laps.

[Delete This Account]

at this point in this never-ending rebuild, i wouldn't use fans as focus groups, or approach running a team from a marketing standpoint by attempting to make change with an eye on selling tickets. ... that plan hasn't worked in Buffalo, which is why the team is in the state it's in.

 

i would've stuck with Nix/Gailey for one more year, believing they had one more shot at fixing the offense, and with a belief that the defense was going to have an opportunity to begin jelling after only one year in Wannstedt's system. of course, they needed linebacking help.

 

i don't know how not re-signing David Nelson helps the team. i question what happened to this talk about offensive line stability, when it's clear there isn't any. and who is going to protect this new quarterback that comes in.

 

it's an unpopular stance, for sure, but the changes that occurred in January lead me to fear that this team is spinning its wheels and in jeopardy of doing so for another 3-4-5 years. i question who is -- and how many people -- are making the football decisions, and whether there is any focus or plan to build a winner.

it starts there, and so far i've heard a lot of talk about how things are going to be better, but seen no substance of that happening.

 

jw

[Lurker]

so far i've heard a lot of talk about how things are going to be better, but seen no substance of that happening.

As far as I can tell, the only 'talk' on that front pertains to culture and accountability from this coaching staff.

 

I can't recall anyone at OBD saying they were going to put a better product on the field this year. It's highly likely they realize this is going to be a 'red shirt' year for Marone and his staff, who'll start building a culture, just like his first season at SU.

[jahnyc]

We need to see progress, and instead the team regressed in year three of the rebuild. I am clearly in the minority, but I would have been okay with Gailey coming back as long as the Bills re-signed Levitre and hired a new DC. Seemed pretty clear that Wanny was in over his head.

[Dan]

at this point in this never-ending rebuild, i wouldn't use fans as focus groups, or approach running a team from a marketing standpoint by attempting to make change with an eye on selling tickets. ... that plan hasn't worked in Buffalo, which is why the team is in the state it's in.

 

i would've stuck with Nix/Gailey for one more year, believing they had one more shot at fixing the offense, and with a belief that the defense was going to have an opportunity to begin jelling after only one year in Wannstedt's system. of course, they needed linebacking help.

 

i don't know how not re-signing David Nelson helps the team. i question what happened to this talk about offensive line stability, when it's clear there isn't any. and who is going to protect this new quarterback that comes in.

 

it's an unpopular stance, for sure, but the changes that occurred in January lead me to fear that this team is spinning its wheels and in jeopardy of doing so for another 3-4-5 years. i question who is -- and how many people -- are making the football decisions, and whether there is any focus or plan to build a winner.

it starts there, and so far i've heard a lot of talk about how things are going to be better, but seen no substance of that happening.

 

jw

I agree with just about everything you said. I'll add though, that Chan should have been forced to hire a real Offensive Coordinator or take the job and hire a HC. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now... hiring a HC who is also going to be largely responsible for one of the coordinator roles is a recipe for mediocrity.

 

I would have also drafted a a QB last year when there seemed to be a number of quality QBs for the taking, because I no matter how good Fitz may or may not be, we all knew he wasn't the long-term answer.

 

Yes, changes needed to be made this off season. Afterall, we were coming off yet another losing season. However, what I'm seeing is a complete blow up of the team by the same guy that built it. That, in my eyes, points to a front office with no clear direction and no confidence in its decisions. And to now think we have to wait another 3 years or have any patience at all just to see if they finally figured it out, well I just think that's absurd.

 

[Fan in Chicago]

 

i don't know how not re-signing David Nelson helps the team. i question what happened to this talk about offensive line stability, when it's clear there isn't any. and who is going to protect this new quarterback that comes in.

 

it's an unpopular stance, for sure, but the changes that occurred in January lead me to fear that this team is spinning its wheels and in jeopardy of doing so for another 3-4-5 years. i question who is -- and how many people -- are making the football decisions, and whether there is any focus or plan to build a winner.

it starts there, and so far i've heard a lot of talk about how things are going to be better, but seen no substance of that happening.

 

jw

 

I didn't realize that we are actually agreeing on several items. I too would have liked Nelson back for ~ $1.5 million per, Levitre for up to $8 million per. Both numbers would have most likely gotten them re-signed. Agree with cutting Fitz but that is about all I agree with recently.

[FLFan]

 

 

 

Why do you think he wanted out? Is that a hunch? He has some relatives that come to watch the games on occaision at the bar I go for Bills games...my impression was that he loved Buffalo.

 

I think, more likely, he sat around waiting for the Bills to call...when the call never came, he started seeing/hearing his name near the top of most every "best free agents" list, and saw his asking price going up by the day.

I am sure Levitre did not just wait around for the Bills to call. Please. He has been talking about free agency for a year. A monkey could have been his agent and recognized he was going to cash in big time by testing the market.

[GG]

at this point in this never-ending rebuild, i wouldn't use fans as focus groups, or approach running a team from a marketing standpoint by attempting to make change with an eye on selling tickets. ... that plan hasn't worked in Buffalo, which is why the team is in the state it's in.

 

i would've stuck with Nix/Gailey for one more year, believing they had one more shot at fixing the offense, and with a belief that the defense was going to have an opportunity to begin jelling after only one year in Wannstedt's system. of course, they needed linebacking help.

 

i don't know how not re-signing David Nelson helps the team. i question what happened to this talk about offensive line stability, when it's clear there isn't any. and who is going to protect this new quarterback that comes in.

 

it's an unpopular stance, for sure, but the changes that occurred in January lead me to fear that this team is spinning its wheels and in jeopardy of doing so for another 3-4-5 years. i question who is -- and how many people -- are making the football decisions, and whether there is any focus or plan to build a winner.

it starts there, and so far i've heard a lot of talk about how things are going to be better, but seen no substance of that happening.

 

jw

 

I think we agree on a lot more than disagree on the above topics, except that you place a big part of the blame one level below where I place it.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

One thing I haven't seen a ton of chatter about is the loss of a bunch of our captain/team leader type guys. Say what you want about the on field production of Kelsay, Wilson, Fitz, Barnett, Moorman, etc. but there's no doubt they were respected in the locker room.

 

On offense it seems like Wood and Freddy will be the more vocal leaders, and on defense all we're left with is Kyle Williams.

 

I really don't see anyone naturally stepping into the roles that these guys filled and I think that's a big question mark with the team at this p

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

One thing I haven't seen a ton of chatter about is the loss of a bunch of our captain/team leader type guys. Say what you want about the on field production of Kelsay, Wilson, Fitz, Barnett, Moorman, etc. but there's no doubt they were respected in the locker room.

 

On offense it seems like Wood and Freddy will be the more vocal leaders, and on defense all we're left with is Kyle Williams.

 

I really don't see anyone naturally stepping into the roles that these guys filled and I think that's a big question mark with the team at this point.

 

Seems like Marrone will have a little less patience for sub par performance and won't always take the blame to the degree Chan did.

 

Not saying that we should have kept any or all of these guys just a little concerned that a locker room that didn't necessarily have the strongest core of leaders to begin with has recently lost most of the few they did have.