Dante Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 well, since you asked....i'd first mandate a minimum wage that provided for income for a full work week higher than the federal poverty level. then i'd mandate basic health insurance coverage either through employers or the gov't -preferably the govt via single payer. i'm sure you're happy that i'm not omnipotent. i almost always choose to vote for the candidate who i perceive to place the most relative import here, all other issues being equal. Minimum wage jobs aren't supposed to be life sustaining. They should be perceived as temporary. And if a person holds a job like this, they have no business even thinking about starting a family and if they have one they better get motivated to get out of that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Minimum wage jobs aren't supposed to be life sustaining. They should be perceived as temporary. And if a person holds a job like this, they have no business even thinking about starting a family and if they have one they better get motivated to get out of that job. what do you suppose the unemployment rate would be without minimum wage jobs? full employment at your approved qualifying level of jobs aren't near plentiful enough to result in anything but eugenics using your model. and who decided what minimum wage jobs are supposed to be or not be? great oz...is that you? Edited March 14, 2013 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 what do you suppose the unemployment rate would be without minimum wage jobs? full employment at your approved qualifying level aren't near plentiful enough to result in anything but eugenics using your model. C'mon, who gets minimum wage nowadays? I was making more than minimum wage when I was in high school working at K-Mart, and my wife hires people with no college experience and even they get $12-$13/hour -- not something I'd want to raise a family with, but hardly minimum wage either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) C'mon, who gets minimum wage nowadays? I was making more than minimum wage when I was in high school working at K-Mart, and my wife hires people with no college experience and even they get $12-$13/hour -- not something I'd want to raise a family with, but hardly minimum wage either. let's start with tasker's servants or ex servants (i'm not sure). then we add fast food workers, many kitchen workers, housekeeping staff, elderly or child care workers, farm workers and plenty of folks at wal mart (which i believe is the nations largest employer)...just a few examples. http://www.businessinsider.com/the-20-companies-with-the-most-low-wage-workers-2013-2 Edited March 14, 2013 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Politicians who are bought and paid for by investment bankers. Supply creates demand. If there as no commodity to be bought, there would be no one to purchase it. It's not the fault of the bankers. It's not even the fault of the politciians who sell influence to them, although that's closer to the truth. The real fault lies with the electorate who keeps them in power It certainly isn't the god damn free market. Adam Smith is rolling in his grave you moron. I do suppose, that in a binary world in which there were only two possible economic/governmental structures I would be a moron for suggesting that something wasn't either a 1 or a 0; however we live in the real world, and not your false-choice fantasy construction, which makes you possibly the dumbest sonofabitch on the planet. Edited March 14, 2013 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 then we add fast food workers, many kitchen workers, housekeeping staff, elderly or child care workers, farm workers and plenty of folks at wal mart (which i believe is the nations largest employer)...just a few examples Fast food workers make more than minimum wage, at least in Minnesota. When I first moved here in '94, they were paying roughly $8/hour. But even if they don't, why does someone at McDonalds or Taco Bell need more than minimum wage? It's not a career. Walmart workers fall into this category as well -- like I said, I made slightly more than minimum wage when I was at KMart in high school - but should someone who stocks shelves be making a livable wage doing that? Why? Housekeeping gets minimum wage (or slightly above), but also make tips. (you DO tip when you're at a hotel, don't you??) Kitchen workers, I have no idea - I would assume they're making more but I have no first hand experience. I know child care workers make more than minimum wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Fast food workers make more than minimum wage, at least in Minnesota. When I first moved here in '94, they were paying roughly $8/hour. But even if they don't, why does someone at McDonalds or Taco Bell need more than minimum wage? It's not a career. Walmart workers fall into this category as well -- like I said, I made slightly more than minimum wage when I was at KMart in high school - but should someone who stocks shelves be making a livable wage doing that? Why? Housekeeping gets minimum wage (or slightly above), but also make tips. (you DO tip when you're at a hotel, don't you??) Kitchen workers, I have no idea - I would assume they're making more but I have no first hand experience. I know child care workers make more than minimum wage. if this is true (and i certainly don't concede it) then why the profound resistance to increasing the minimum wage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 if this is true (and i certainly don't concede it) then why the profound resistance to increasing the minimum wage? It's the employers who hire people in jobs with very low skilled labor and higher than average turnover. To them, the extra $.50/hr makes a big difference in profitability. Minimum wage jobs aren't supposed to be life sustaining. They should be perceived as temporary. And if a person holds a job like this, they have no business even thinking about starting a family and if they have one they better get motivated to get out of that job. Thank you ACEman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 It's the employers who hire people in jobs with very low skilled labor and higher than average turnover. To them, the extra $.50/hr makes a big difference in profitability. and you wonder why the differential between rich and poor is increasing? i also don't believe that it's limited to these employers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Fast food workers make more than minimum wage, at least in Minnesota. When I first moved here in '94, they were paying roughly $8/hour. But even if they don't, why does someone at McDonalds or Taco Bell need more than minimum wage? It's not a career. Walmart workers fall into this category as well -- like I said, I made slightly more than minimum wage when I was at KMart in high school - but should someone who stocks shelves be making a livable wage doing that? Why? Housekeeping gets minimum wage (or slightly above), but also make tips. (you DO tip when you're at a hotel, don't you??) Kitchen workers, I have no idea - I would assume they're making more but I have no first hand experience. I know child care workers make more than minimum wage. Of course. Free market determines the value. Or at least it should. Once the government tampers with it, as always, it screws it up. Minimum wage goes up. Less people are hired. Or, if I do keep the same number employed but have to meet minimum wage requirements, I raise my prices. It's the employers who hire people in jobs with very low skilled labor and higher than average turnover. To them, the extra $.50/hr makes a big difference in profitability. Thank you ACEman I don't think I could express as clearly or as funny as him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 well, since you asked....i'd first mandate a minimum wage that provided for income for a full work week higher than the federal poverty level. then i'd mandate basic health insurance coverage either through employers or the gov't -preferably the govt via single payer. i'm sure you're happy that i'm not omnipotent. i almost always choose to vote for the candidate who i perceive to place the most relative import here, all other issues being equal. Do you think there might be some unintended consequences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) well, since you asked....i'd first mandate a minimum wage that provided for income for a full work week higher than the federal poverty level. then i'd mandate basic health insurance coverage either through employers or the gov't -preferably the govt via single payer. i'm sure you're happy that i'm not omnipotent. So how is your mandated minimum wage greater than poverty going to work? Poverty is looked at per household. So is the minimum wage for the workers in that household going to change when both husband and wife work and when one gets laid off the one who is working has their "minimum wage" doubled? Did you even think this through? Of course not. Fast food workers make more than minimum wage, at least in Minnesota. When I first moved here in '94, they were paying roughly $8/hour. But even if they don't, why does someone at McDonalds or Taco Bell need more than minimum wage? It's not a career. Walmart workers fall into this category as well -- like I said, I made slightly more than minimum wage when I was at KMart in high school - but should someone who stocks shelves be making a livable wage doing that? Why? Housekeeping gets minimum wage (or slightly above), but also make tips. (you DO tip when you're at a hotel, don't you??) Kitchen workers, I have no idea - I would assume they're making more but I have no first hand experience. I know child care workers make more than minimum wage. Yes, except dishwashers. If you're an adult washing dishes you don't deserve any more than minimum wage because they get to take home all the food left on the plates they wash. if this is true (and i certainly don't concede it) then why the profound resistance to increasing the need for a minimum wage? Fixed it for you. Edited March 14, 2013 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 And this is why progressives will always win the arguments with the simpleminded. Is the ultimate goal tax revenue collection or saying the rich aren't paying their fair share because some income is taxed at lower rates than other income. Talking about marginal rates to people who understand how taxation works is like saying Trent Edwards was a great QB because he had a very high completion percentage. Who gives a crap about marginal rates when you don't know what the allowable deductions are against AGI. Just like wins & losses are the ultimate arbiters of sports success, tax policy should be judged on revenues collected and effects on the economy. A big reason for rising income inequality is because the rich were incentivized to monetize income at their discretion due to advantageous tax rates. A big part of the superwealthy incomes is fully discretionary and tax policies play a huge role in the decision where & when to recognize that income. If rates were too high that income wouldn't have been generated and Treasury would get less tax dollars. But the redistributionists would be ecstatic because income inequality would go down. Whoopie for progress. The same argument goes for taxing foreign earnings. No company in its right mind will repatriate overseas cash due to high taxes. So Treasury is missing out on a tax windfall because nobody wants to be seen giving "tax breaks" to greedy corporations. So the result is $000000 in collected tax, when the number could go into billions. So you can tell your sob story about the rich soaking the poor to someone who doesn't understand the issues. When in reality, stupid tax codes cheat the Treasury of a lot more tax revenues. Take a look at the history of the top marginal rate and the average tax paid by the top 1%.1981: top rate 70%; average tax rate=33.37% 1982: top rate 50%; average tax=31.43% (drop of 2.3%) 1987: top rate 38.5%; average tax rate=26.4% (drop from previous year of 6.7%) 1988: top rate 28%; average rate=24% (drop of 2.4%) 1991: top rate 31%; average rate=24.37% (up 1.1% from 1990) 1993: top rate 39.6%; average rate=28% (up 3% from 1992) 2003: top rate 35%; average rate 24% (drop of 3% from 2002) I think a simple correlation would find a significant relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 So how is your mandated minimum wage greater than poverty going to work? Poverty is looked at per household. So is the minimum wage for the workers in that household going to change when both husband and wife work and when one gets laid off the one who is working has their "minimum wage" doubled? Did you even think this through? Of course not. Yes, except dishwashers. If you're an adult washing dishes you don't deserve any more than minimum wage because they get to take home all the food left on the plates they wash. Fixed it for you. i did, actually. poverty level for family of 3 is about 21k for the 48 contiguous states. the family values crowd (read republicans) is all about mom raising the kids at home and even the chinese allow 1 child per household for the proletariate, so i figure 21k outta do it. what did obama propose? $9? make it $11 and were good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 i'd first mandate a minimum wage that provided for income for a full work week higher than the federal poverty level. then i'd mandate basic health insurance coverage either through employers or the gov't -preferably the govt via single payer. i'm sure you're happy that i'm not omnipotent. SOCIALIST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 i did, actually. poverty level for family of 3 is about 21k for the 48 contiguous states. the family values crowd (read republicans) is all about mom raising the kids at home and even the chinese allow 1 child per household for the proletariate, so i figure 21k outta do it. what did obama propose? $9? make it $11 and were good to go. You did!?!? So for a family of three where both husband and wife are working in order to stay above the poverty level (your line of what they should be making) they need to make $5.30 per hour. So where does your $9 come in to play? Mom can make a decent living working from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfatbillsfan Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Yes, except dishwashers. If you're an adult washing dishes you don't deserve any more than minimum wage because they get to take home all the food left on the plates they wash. As a person who has had to work with numerous people who really had to do this while washing dishes in order to keep themselves or their families from going hungry I was a little enraged by this... I guess it was supposed to be a joke. But then I remember that this mentality is on it's way out in the United States and it warms my heart. You did!?!? So for a family of three where both husband and wife are working in order to stay above the poverty level (your line of what they should be making) they need to make $5.30 per hour. So where does your $9 come in to play? Mom can make a decent living working from home. Mom is at home with the kids. Can you read? Or just have a problem comprehending what you read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 i did, actually. poverty level for family of 3 is about 21k for the 48 contiguous states. the family values crowd (read republicans) is all about mom raising the kids at home and even the chinese allow 1 child per household for the proletariate, so i figure 21k outta do it. what did obama propose? $9? make it $11 and were good to go. I'll tell you what...you demonstrate how the past increases in minimum wage have eliminated poverty, and I'll refrain from calling you an ignorant simpleton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Take a look at the history of the top marginal rate and the average tax paid by the top 1%. 1981: top rate 70%; average tax rate=33.37% 1982: top rate 50%; average tax=31.43% (drop of 2.3%) 1987: top rate 38.5%; average tax rate=26.4% (drop from previous year of 6.7%) 1988: top rate 28%; average rate=24% (drop of 2.4%) 1991: top rate 31%; average rate=24.37% (up 1.1% from 1990) 1993: top rate 39.6%; average rate=28% (up 3% from 1992) 2003: top rate 35%; average rate 24% (drop of 3% from 2002) I think a simple correlation would find a significant relationship. How many times and how loudly must I SCREAM that tax rates don't matter? The goal is tax revenues. If anything, your data proves supply side works, as even as tax rates (marginal and effective) have fallen, revenues grew in normal economy and the rich paid more in taxes. Thanks for doing my homework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I'll tell you what...you demonstrate how the past increases in minimum wage have eliminated poverty, and I'll refrain from calling you an ignorant simpleton. and you demonstrate where the previous minimum wage increases meet my criteria and i'll refrain from considering you an arrogant, ignorant simpleton...which i consider a worse designation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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