Orton's Arm Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Well I guess "major" cultural groups would be different than "distinct" cultural groups. Does Albion's Seed discuss the Acadians who settled in northern New England and the Bayou country or the Scandinavians who settled the upper midwest? It sounds like the book might be a bit ethnocentric or anglo-centric. Your brief synopsis seemed to ignore quite a few other immigrant groups. "______centric" words are political words, at least when used in a pejorative sense. If (for example) a researcher focuses his attention on the fish that lived during the Mesozoic, few would use words like "aqua-centric" to disparage him or his research. Criticism like that only appears rational when there is some kind of political or ideological subtext to muddy the waters, so to speak. That being said, Fischer's theory is the following: 1) There are four major geographically-based cultures present in the U.S. 2) These cultures were the offshoots of four different British cultural groups 3) When non-British immigrants arrived in regions already settled by British cultural groups, the non-British immigrants tended to adopt the cultural values of the local British cultural group. For example, non-British immigrants in Borderer areas adopted Borderer values, Scandinavian immigrants to the Midwest adopted Puritan values, etc. 4) There are some areas of the U.S. which do not belong to any of the four major regional cultures. The most notable such area is New York City, which has its own culture. You are correct to point out that New Orleans and other areas settled by the French Acadians has a unique culture. Fischer may have touched on that briefly. But the primary focus of his work was in-depth exploration of the four main regional cultures.
dave mcbride Posted March 12, 2013 Author Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Insults don't strike me as effective ways to further a conversation about a moderately interesting topic. As for Florida, given the settlement of the northern part of the state in the 1840s, the agricultural nature of the state's economy in the nineteenth century, and the percentage of the population that was enslaved prior to emancipation, the northern part of the state was very much "Southern." Today, Tallahassee, the panhandle, and Jacksonville are still largely "of the south." Miami of course is not, and neither is Tampa/St. Pete. Or Orlando. No doubt Florida has changed in the last 75 years. But portions of it - specifically, where the Gators and Seminoles play - are culturally southern. It's worth mentioning that one of the worst racial massacres in US history - Rosewood (150 people killed) - occurred in Florida in 1923. It was orchestrated by the Klan. Edited March 12, 2013 by dave mcbride
BuffaloATL Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 It is but there are a lot of people on this board that hated the Troup and Williams picks when they were made not just in retrospect I thought the Williams pick was generally regarded as a steal when when drafted him? First round grade, etc.
Dr. Fong Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 And what if Alexander doesn't want to go to Buffalo?
Solomon Grundy Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I think Chan was the one who thought Ruvell Martin was a better fit for his team than Danario Alexander. At least Buddy thought he was good enough for a tryout.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Nix is a [sic] idiot sign Donario [sic] Alexander for Christ [sic] sakes [sic]. If you're going to insult someone on the Internet, this is why you should always know how to type and spell before you do it: "Nix is an idiot. Sign Danario Alexander for Christ's sake. Edited March 12, 2013 by BEAST MODE BABY!
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 You could pull some BS move like the Seahawks did with Hutchinsen so that SD can't sign him Illegal in the new CBA
CardinalScotts Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 That and the SEc is the most dominate Conference out there. They put more players in the NFL than any other. how did it take that many posts before someone mentioned this.....Do you think Buddy Nix is the guy selecting Southern players.....everyone is- those are the best players
CarolinaBill Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Insults don't strike me as effective ways to further a conversation about a moderately interesting topic. As for Florida, given the settlement of the northern part of the state in the 1840s, the agricultural nature of the state's economy in the nineteenth century, and the percentage of the population that was enslaved prior to emancipation, the northern part of the state was very much "Southern." Today, Tallahassee, the panhandle, and Jacksonville are still largely "of the south." Miami of course is not, and neither is Tampa/St. Pete. Or Orlando. No doubt Florida has changed in the last 75 years. But portions of it - specifically, where the Gators and Seminoles play - are culturally southern. It's worth mentioning that one of the worst racial massacres in US history - Rosewood (150 people killed) - occurred in Florida in 1923. It was orchestrated by the Klan. Last time I checked, some nice white ppl from the Buffalo area were the ones burning messages in a black man's front yard most recently. And apparently, Mlk day in Wny is also known as "Dead N***** Day". To insinuate that rascism is more prevalent in the south today is incorrect. If anything, certain areas of the north have done a great job of utilizing their own special segregation practices.
H2o Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Nix needs to wake the F up. They had Alexander In for a tryout last year mid season and did not sign him. Chargers grabbed him and he went off This guy has size and speed with huge hands And is the prototype outside wideout. He is without a doubt a stud. Please sign this guy So we can move on to other positions. Man I wish I was the bills GM We would be looking at Russell Wilson As our starting QB Hi light reel nuff said Best wide out in college football The year he came out but he had major injuries Youtube video http://youtu.be/BF5-vkBwbZg That video was 3 knee surgeries ago
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 how did it take that many posts before someone mentioned this.....Do you think Buddy Nix is the guy selecting Southern players.....everyone is- those are the best players Apparently you didn't read the thread. "______centric" words are political words, at least when used in a pejorative sense. If (for example) a researcher focuses his attention on the fish that lived during the Mesozoic, few would use words like "aqua-centric" to disparage him or his research. Criticism like that only appears rational when there is some kind of political or ideological subtext to muddy the waters, so to speak. That being said, Fischer's theory is the following: 1) There are four major geographically-based cultures present in the U.S. 2) These cultures were the offshoots of four different British cultural groups 3) When non-British immigrants arrived in regions already settled by British cultural groups, the non-British immigrants tended to adopt the cultural values of the local British cultural group. For example, non-British immigrants in Borderer areas adopted Borderer values, Scandinavian immigrants to the Midwest adopted Puritan values, etc. 4) There are some areas of the U.S. which do not belong to any of the four major regional cultures. The most notable such area is New York City, which has its own culture. You are correct to point out that New Orleans and other areas settled by the French Acadians has a unique culture. Fischer may have touched on that briefly. But the primary focus of his work was in-depth exploration of the four main regional cultures. I don't consider "-centric" to be pejorative nor did I mean it that way. I meant it in a factual way. Not having read the book I can't judge it. But based on your description it certainly seemed like the cultural scope of the book was based solely on British culture.
dave mcbride Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Last time I checked, some nice white ppl from the Buffalo area were the ones burning messages in a black man's front yard most recently. And apparently, Mlk day in Wny is also known as "Dead N***** Day". To insinuate that rascism is more prevalent in the south today is incorrect. If anything, certain areas of the north have done a great job of utilizing their own special segregation practices. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I said nothing -- nothing -- about race in the South today. Let me repeat: nothing. I referred to an event in 1923, the point of which was to connect northern Florida (the "southern" part of the state) to the rest of the south. You said that Florida wasn't regarded as part of the South. That is factually untrue. Northern Florida, (it became a state in 1845) was fully connected to the larger deep South economy of the late antebellum era and in the reconstruction/post-reconstruction eras. I can actually provide a litany of information on why this is, but it's not really worth anyone's time. Suffice it to say that the South, despite undergoing massive changes since the 1950s/early 1960s, is in certain respects still a culturally distinguishable region. For most of the 20th century, it was called "the solid South" for a reason. Again, it is changed a great deal, but the GM of the Buffalo Bills was born in 1940 and came of age in Alabama in the 1950s. To think that he doesn't identify culturally with the region he came from at the particular moment he came of age there isn't realistic. Hell, I grew up in Buffalo and left when I was 21. Yet I identify as a Buffalonian and always will. It's not uncommon. James Joyce left Ireland when he was 22 and never went back once in his life. Yet the only place he ever wrote about was Ireland. People have sentimental attachments to places. My larger point is that the evidence clearly suggests that Nix has a bias towards southern players. Part of this is surely because so many good teams are in the South, but his lousy drafting record and team building -- and yes, it is lousy, even though I wish it wasn't -- means that he shouldn't be let off the hook. Incidentally, it also suggests that he doesn't take other regions of the country all that seriously as seedbeds for NFL players. That strikes me as a self-defeating philosophy, but I realize that you may disagree. I realize that one could argue that if the Bills had a good QB, his record would look fine. (Incidentally, you mention Cam Newton in an earlier post. Of course he would have drafted him, but I don't understand your point because Newton went to an Alabama school.) As for his drafting record, in year 1 he drafted 1 good player: Spiller. Year 2: Dareus is a decent, but a disappointment so far given where he was drafted. I thought it was a good pick at the time, and I hope that changes. No one else in year 2 has done so yet. year 3: Gilmore was a disappointment as well in his rookie season, displaying a strong propensity to hold. That said, he's clearly talented and I'm optimistic. Glenn appears to be a solid LT, but he's a bit slowfooted and is probably better suited to RT. I hope I'm wrong about that. Regardless, he played reasonably well this past season. No one else from the draft did, but I will grant that they were rookies. The bottom line is that team is worse than in the Jauron years and is filled with holes. They have one decent receiver, no QB, no linebackers, one good safety, a talented but underperforming d-line, and a less talented but credible o-line that just got a whole lot worse at around 4 pm today. And their one decent TE is badly hurt. Like you, I hope that all of this changes soon and the Bills become a winning team once more. And for the record, despite the gist of your comments, I'm not anti-southern. I happen to believe that the South has a disproportionate number of good players. But it's not the only place to look, and prejudging players based on regions strikes me as a poor way to build a draft board. Edited March 13, 2013 by dave mcbride
josephfrei Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) I've definitely seen indications that Nix is a dogmatic thinker but I think he's slowly evolving, due to the graphic nature of his mistakes. His comments about drafting a quarterback these days are in sharp contrast to his comments when he was hired. His comments about trading in the draft have also tempered somewhat. I think Nix has made enough mistakes that he's been forced to re-evaluate some of his core beliefs. Hopefully he can continue to do well what he does well and improves on those things that he does poorly. Here's hoping Manti Te'o is re-evaluating some of his core beliefs, as well, due to the graphic nature of his mistakes. And, hey, if that guy finds himself being drafted by the Bills at some point next month, he'll now have a thing or two in common with Buddy. ...well, maybe. Then again, we're thinking and hoping at least that Buddy Nix is evolving some of his thinking so that he honestly helps to move this franchise forward to a better future. I mean, as fans, that's all we really can do ...trust in the powers that be and hope they're the actual experts they ought to be. Edited March 13, 2013 by Yonder_d7
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 On the bright side, he won't be drafting a Southern Californian for his QB (given the thread title). (Tip of the hat to Jim Kelly.)
CarolinaBill Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 As for his drafting record, in year 1 he drafted 1 good player: Spiller. Year 2: Dareus is a decent, but a disappointment so far given where he was drafted. I thought it was a good pick at the time, and I hope that changes. No one else in year 2 has done so yet. year 3: Gilmore was a disappointment as well in his rookie season, displaying a strong propensity to hold. That said, he's clearly talented and I'm optimistic. Glenn appears to be a solid LT, but he's a bit slowfooted and is probably better suited to RT. I hope I'm wrong about that. Regardless, he played reasonably well this past season. No one else from the draft did, but I will grant that they were rookies. The bottom line is that team is worse than in the Jauron years and is filled with holes. They have one decent receiver, no QB, no linebackers, one good safety, a talented but underperforming d-line, and a less talented but credible o-line that just got a whole lot worse at around 4 pm today. And their one decent TE is badly hurt. Like you, I hope that all of this changes soon and the Bills become a winning team once more. And for the record, despite the gist of your comments, I'm not anti-southern. I happen to believe that the South has a disproportionate number of good players. But it's not the only place to look, and prejudging players based on regions strikes me as a poor way to build a draft board. Im gonna stick to the draft record. My point was that we tried drafting from other areas prior to Nix, and Failed miserably. Using the premise that you can't judge a draft class till after the 3rd yr in the league I would go as far as to say that Buddy has improved the overall talent and direction of the franchise. He does not play, he does not coach, he simply provides the staff the players, and they are responsible for utilizing the talent in the best way possible. yr 1: Spiller, and carrington, and to a lesser degree Moats are the only noteworthy players in that class. plus we STILL don't know what we have in Troup. yr 2: Dareus, williams, sheppard, Searcy, hairston, white and rogers have all become solid players/rotational/role players for us. The unbelievable situation that Dareus had to deal with last yr is certainly a reason for his decline last yr, but his arrow is pointed up, make no mistake about it. yr 3:Gilmore was far from a disappointment, did he struggle at points, yes, but he was a solid player who has star potential. Glenn had a great yr and should be better if he can stay healthy. Graham, despite the fanbases misconceptions, had a solid yr considering his draft position. Is it what we WANTED, no, but fan expectations are a bit unrealistic in comparison to coaches expectations. Bradham and Brooks both played well all things considered and should only get better, and Sanders, while stashed on the practice squad, should be expected to push for PT this yr as well. Again, it was their first yr, you can't crucify a rookie class for not becoming instant All-Pros. There is Talent to mold. in comparison, the 3 yrs prior produced the following players of note: Wood, Byrd, Levitre, Leodis, Stevie, Lynch and Poz. The rest were dreadful busts. We were more diverse then, drafting from all over the places. I guess my bigger point is that IMO, the Coaching is the bigger culprit than the drafting during the Nix era, and yes i understand he hired Chan, as a last resort because nobody wanted the Job, despite what Nix said to the contrary. It is my belief that the solid drafting Buddy has done over the past 3 yrs will finally show results with the new coaching staff, especially on defense. I guess we'll have to wait and see, until then, agree to disagree...
Orton's Arm Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Apparently you didn't read the thread. I don't consider "-centric" to be pejorative nor did I mean it that way. I meant it in a factual way. Not having read the book I can't judge it. But based on your description it certainly seemed like the cultural scope of the book was based solely on British culture. > I don't consider "-centric" to be pejorative nor did I mean it that way. Fair enough. > Not having read the book I can't judge it. But based on your description it certainly seemed like the cultural scope of the book was based solely on British culture. Fischer's theory is that the four main regional cultures which currently exist in America were derived from four different regional British cultures. On the other hand, the book is intended to be the first in a two part series. The first book (the one I described) is focused primarily on the 1600s through 1800s. The second book will dwell on more recent changes. British influence in America has obviously been diluted by comparatively recent large-scale non-British immigration. I recall there having been a large wave of such immigration in the late 1800s; and another wave which began with LBJ's 1965 Immigration and Naturalization Act; and which is continuing into the present and foreseeable future. Obviously all that immigration has produced (and is producing) cultural changes; but those changes have been to recent for Fischer to cover them in Albion's Seed. When Fischer does discuss recent (post-1900) events, it's to illustrate the four cultural groups, or their interactions with each other. During WWII, some captured German submariners were held in a POW camp in the deep South. Two managed to escape. They then began wandering the countryside in search of food and shelter. They knocked on someone's door to ask for water. An elderly woman answered the door. After a brief conversation--in which each side found it hard to understand the other--she grabbed a gun, and shot and killed both men. She then informed the sheriff of her actions. The sheriff told her she'd just killed two Germans, at which point she broke down and started to cry. The sheriff asked her who in "tarnation" she thought she was shooting at. "I thought they was Yankees." Each of the four cultural groups disliked and distrusted the other three. These emotions were only deepened by increased familiarity. Edited March 13, 2013 by Edwards' Arm
tennesseeboy Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Its not a north south problem...its an inability to recognize talent problem.
Orton's Arm Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Im gonna stick to the draft record. My point was that we tried drafting from other areas prior to Nix, and Failed miserably. Using the premise that you can't judge a draft class till after the 3rd yr in the league I would go as far as to say that Buddy has improved the overall talent and direction of the franchise. He does not play, he does not coach, he simply provides the staff the players, and they are responsible for utilizing the talent in the best way possible. yr 1: Spiller, and carrington, and to a lesser degree Moats are the only noteworthy players in that class. plus we STILL don't know what we have in Troup. yr 2: Dareus, williams, sheppard, Searcy, hairston, white and rogers have all become solid players/rotational/role players for us. The unbelievable situation that Dareus had to deal with last yr is certainly a reason for his decline last yr, but his arrow is pointed up, make no mistake about it. yr 3:Gilmore was far from a disappointment, did he struggle at points, yes, but he was a solid player who has star potential. Glenn had a great yr and should be better if he can stay healthy. Graham, despite the fanbases misconceptions, had a solid yr considering his draft position. Is it what we WANTED, no, but fan expectations are a bit unrealistic in comparison to coaches expectations. Bradham and Brooks both played well all things considered and should only get better, and Sanders, while stashed on the practice squad, should be expected to push for PT this yr as well. Again, it was their first yr, you can't crucify a rookie class for not becoming instant All-Pros. There is Talent to mold. in comparison, the 3 yrs prior produced the following players of note: Wood, Byrd, Levitre, Leodis, Stevie, Lynch and Poz. The rest were dreadful busts. We were more diverse then, drafting from all over the places. I guess my bigger point is that IMO, the Coaching is the bigger culprit than the drafting during the Nix era, and yes i understand he hired Chan, as a last resort because nobody wanted the Job, despite what Nix said to the contrary. It is my belief that the solid drafting Buddy has done over the past 3 yrs will finally show results with the new coaching staff, especially on defense. I guess we'll have to wait and see, until then, agree to disagree... > Dareus, williams, sheppard, Searcy, hairston, white and rogers have all become solid players/rotational/role players for us. Williams? Seriously? I'm not ready to give up on him yet; and there's a chance he'll achieve more at safety than he has at CB. But to bill him as someone who's already proven to be a success story is absurd. Some of the other players on that list have also not achieved enough, for long enough, to be considered success stories. Look at Marv's two drafts, for example. You can point to a number of guys from those drafts who showed flashes during limited playing time, but who never amounted to anything long-term. Not even as backups. > The unbelievable situation that Dareus had to deal with last yr is certainly a reason for his decline last yr, but his arrow is pointed up, make no mistake about it. Dareus was well on his way to having a mediocre second year well before his brother was killed. At least thus far, choosing Dareus over A.J. Green looks like it was a serious mistake. > Glenn had a great yr and should be better if he can stay healthy. I disagree with this as well. For his first few games, Glenn looked like he was on his way to having a great year. Then he got injured. After his return, his level of play wasn't the same. My guess is that he was playing hurt, and that he'll return to form in his second year. But that's only a guess, and a few impressive games early in the season do not "a great year" make. > Graham, despite the fanbases misconceptions, had a solid yr considering his draft position. Graham did nothing his rookie year to prove his detractors wrong. I remember seeing a website--it may have been Football Outsiders--which gave him a very low player grade for what he'd done. I'll grant that sometimes a WR can look like a bust in his first year or two, only to start to play well in year 3 or 4. Perhaps Graham will become like that. But it's mistaken to act as though Graham proved anything as a rookie. He didn't. > Sanders, while stashed on the practice squad, should be expected to push for PT this yr as well. Now you're arguing that a guy on the practice squad should be considered a Nix drafting success? You're reaching here. > in comparison, the 3 yrs prior produced the following players of note: When the Bills draft a player, he'll often get hyped up. The people who drafted him are naturally excited about him: they liked him better than anyone else available at the pick. That excitement spreads to the media, and to these boards. Sometimes the players live up to the hype. Other times they don't. When the latter happens, it takes a while for people--especially here on these boards--to figure out that the front office made a serious mistake. Prior to the Super Bowl, there were still many here who billed Donte Whitner as an above-average or even top-5 SS. Back in 2007 or 2008, many here still thought that guys like Ko Simpson and Ashton Youboty would be good. Some of the names you're throwing around as Nix's drafting successes have achieved less than either of those two. I'd like to see a player achieve significantly more than Youboty or Ko SImpson if I'm going to put him in a different category than them.
dave mcbride Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 Im gonna stick to the draft record. My point was that we tried drafting from other areas prior to Nix, and Failed miserably. Using the premise that you can't judge a draft class till after the 3rd yr in the league I would go as far as to say that Buddy has improved the overall talent and direction of the franchise. He does not play, he does not coach, he simply provides the staff the players, and they are responsible for utilizing the talent in the best way possible. yr 1: Spiller, and carrington, and to a lesser degree Moats are the only noteworthy players in that class. plus we STILL don't know what we have in Troup. yr 2: Dareus, williams, sheppard, Searcy, hairston, white and rogers have all become solid players/rotational/role players for us. The unbelievable situation that Dareus had to deal with last yr is certainly a reason for his decline last yr, but his arrow is pointed up, make no mistake about it. yr 3:Gilmore was far from a disappointment, did he struggle at points, yes, but he was a solid player who has star potential. Glenn had a great yr and should be better if he can stay healthy. Graham, despite the fanbases misconceptions, had a solid yr considering his draft position. Is it what we WANTED, no, but fan expectations are a bit unrealistic in comparison to coaches expectations. Bradham and Brooks both played well all things considered and should only get better, and Sanders, while stashed on the practice squad, should be expected to push for PT this yr as well. Again, it was their first yr, you can't crucify a rookie class for not becoming instant All-Pros. There is Talent to mold. in comparison, the 3 yrs prior produced the following players of note: Wood, Byrd, Levitre, Leodis, Stevie, Lynch and Poz. The rest were dreadful busts. We were more diverse then, drafting from all over the places. I guess my bigger point is that IMO, the Coaching is the bigger culprit than the drafting during the Nix era, and yes i understand he hired Chan, as a last resort because nobody wanted the Job, despite what Nix said to the contrary. It is my belief that the solid drafting Buddy has done over the past 3 yrs will finally show results with the new coaching staff, especially on defense. I guess we'll have to wait and see, until then, agree to disagree... I disagree, but I hope you're right and I hope I'm wrong.
Recommended Posts