Fan in San Diego Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 If Fitz is the worst QB ever than what does that say about all the Bills QBs since Kelly? PTR Remember Todd Collins?
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 I do think with smarter coaching, i.e. don't make Fitz stand back and throw every down could make him look alot better. Not trying to make excuses but his WR were also terrible, will that be improved this year, considering they cut Jones and Nelson, I have to believe they have something planed there to upgrade. So let's say you have a Greg Jennings out there, and smarter coaching, I think could make him savagable. And also a defense that constantly doesn't give up 30 points a gain would help. Expecting Fitz t ooutscore these other teams isn't realistic. As far as his contract goes, by todays standards it's not al lthat high, what did I read it's the 19th highest, I'd rank him maybe close to #25 so not all that far off.
Bronc24 Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) I don't agree. There's nothing that prevents us from trying to get as many wins as possible this upcoming season while also drafting/developing a QB this year or next. You play to win ever season and let the chips fall where they may. My ideal scenario: Keep Fitz, draft a QB in first 3 rounds. Let Fitz/TJax/rookie compete and let best one win. If rookie doesn't win the job for Week 1, then start either Fitz/Tjax. If we start off say 5-2, keep going with the veteran. We start off 1-5, switch to the rookie if ready. The team has more upside with Fitz than without Fitz - at least for next season. (IMO). You seem to believe I want to go 2 - 14 or 6 - 10. Not so. I want us to go 19 - 0. However, our win "ceiling" with Fitzpatrick is such that playoffs are not a possibility. Therefore, if this is a known, why trot him out another year only to decide next offseason it's time to sever the ties, keeping his cap number on the books another year? I'm not convinced T-Jax is worse.....Gailey never gave us a chance to form an opinion. I've stated time and time again that Fitz will not lead us to that promised land, so we should move on. I have also been emphatic that I hoped he'd prove me wrong. I would gladly eat that crow and would be the first to admit I was wrong. However, it just isn't going to happen, so knowing that, let's start yet another new chapter. Edited March 11, 2013 by Marauder24
Dorkington Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Part of me wants to grab whatever QB at the 8 spot and take a chance. But with the consensus being that the QBs are weak in the draft, and no one out there in FA, I wonder if we shouldn't just focus on the rest of the team and make a run at a QB next year? Seems the Bills are in a bind.. not bad enough to get the top pick, not good enough to plug holes and be a contender.
bobobonators Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 You seem to believe I want to go 2 - 14 or 6 - 10. Not so. I want us to go 19 - 0. However, our win "ceiling" with Fitzpatrick is such that playoffs are not a possibility. Therefore, if this is a known, why trot him out another year only to decide next offseason it's time to sever the ties, keeping his cap number on the books another year? I'm not convinced T-Jax is worse.....Gailey never gave us a chance to form an opinion. I've stated time and time again that Fitz will not lead us to that promised land, so we should move on. I have also been emphatic that I hoped he'd prove me wrong. I would gladly eat that crow and would be the first to admit I was wrong. However, it just isn't going to happen, so knowing that, let's start yet another new chapter. I don't think Fitz is good enough to take us to the super bowl. I do think, however, that he is good enough to take us to the playoffs - which, for a team who hasn't made it in over 10 years, should be our primary goal (IMO). And again, there's nothing that prevents us from keeping Fitz AND drafting a QB. Just b/c I want Fitz on this team doesn't mean I don't want an upgrade. All in due time..
Bronc24 Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 I don't think Fitz is good enough to take us to the super bowl. I do think, however, that he is good enough to take us to the playoffs - which, for a team who hasn't made it in over 10 years, should be our primary goal (IMO). And again, there's nothing that prevents us from keeping Fitz AND drafting a QB. Just b/c I want Fitz on this team doesn't mean I don't want an upgrade. All in due time.. Last year was "due time" and Nix dropped the ball. Badly. We will always disagree about how far Fitz can take this or any other team. I don't think he can get us to the playoffs. History, so far, is clearly on my side.
bobobonators Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Last year was "due time" and Nix dropped the ball. Badly. We will always disagree about how far Fitz can take this or any other team. I don't think he can get us to the playoffs. History, so far, is clearly on my side. I hear ya, and I understand that's where we fundamentally disagree (with respect to how far he can potentially take us).
VABills Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) I don't think Fitz is good enough to take us to the super bowl. I do think, however, that he is good enough to take us to the playoffs - which, for a team who hasn't made it in over 10 years, should be our primary goal (IMO). And again, there's nothing that prevents us from keeping Fitz AND drafting a QB. Just b/c I want Fitz on this team doesn't mean I don't want an upgrade. All in due time.. And fitz has been the qb for a third of that time. Edited March 11, 2013 by VABills
BuffBill Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Like i said before....Fitz has the Bills by the balls!!! Thanks to the idiots who run this circus! You are 100% correct. The contract that Nix gave Fitz should have gotten the GM fired, but they are both still here? No faith in this franchise, whatsoever.
Dorkington Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Last year was "due time" and Nix dropped the ball. Badly. We will always disagree about how far Fitz can take this or any other team. I don't think he can get us to the playoffs. History, so far, is clearly on my side. Fitz not being on a playoff team does not equate Fitz being unable to be on a playoff team. That gets back to the assumption that the QB position is the only problem on this team. We have no LBs, we have poor CBs, we have an underperforming DL. We have an OL that can't pass block for longer than three seconds, we have no real WR talent other than Stevie, and he can only get open underneath usually, we have no play making TE, and we have one RB who can make plays in an open field but can't get really get tough yards reliably. On top of all of that, our starting QB is about average, and forces too many bad throws. So with all these holes, focusing on the QB position when there isn't much to fill it with seems to be counter productive.
bobobonators Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 And fitz has been the qb for a third of that time. and during the same third, the defense has never ranked higher than 26th in the NFL in pts given up/game.
VABills Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Fitz not being on a playoff team does not equate Fitz being unable to be on a playoff team. That gets back to the assumption that the QB position is the only problem on this team. We have no LBs, we have poor CBs, we have an underperforming DL. We have an OL that can't pass block for longer than three seconds, we have no real WR talent other than Stevie, and he can only get open underneath usually, we have no play making TE, and we have one RB who can make plays in an open field but can't get really get tough yards reliably. On top of all of that, our starting QB is about average, and forces too many bad throws. So with all these holes, focusing on the QB position when there isn't much to fill it with seems to be counter productive. If we had a top 5 qb the last few years we likely would have made the playoffs at least once. So with one change the team is good enough for playoffs. But folks like you want a bottom fifty qb but top 5 at every other position to make up for his inability to actually help win. and during the same third, the defense has never ranked higher than 26th in the NFL in pts given up/game. Easier to replace one bad apple to make playoffs than 5
bobobonators Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 If we had a top 5 qb the last few years we likely would have made the playoffs at least once. So with one change the team is good enough for playoffs. But folks like you want a bottom fifty qb but top 5 at every other position to make up for his inability to actually help win. Easier to replace one bad apple to make playoffs than 5 Perhaps, but the QB is a pretty big apple to replace no matter how "crappy" he may be.
RealityCheck Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 From what I have seen in Fitz and every other QB in the playoffs last year, I am quite confident that Fitz will never win a Super Bowl regardless of the supporting cast. He can't make the surgical downfield passes that you absolutely have to make to even get there. Every defense this past year played closer and closer to the line because Fitz simply can't make you pay for doing it. The idea that we should have run more makes sense on the surface until you realize that defenses played base defense regardless of the Bills alignments and crowded the line with 8 and 9 in the box. The book on Fitz is well documented at this point. Why keep him just to win enough games to not be in position to draft a promising QB. I would rather see them lose every game then do just enough to get in the playoffs and be 1 and done. I watched their 4 SB losses like many here. Simply making the playoffs is BS to me. I understand that my attitude in this regard is a little extreme, but I think that some people are kidding themselves that simply appearing in the playoffs is some sort of accomplishment. Believe me, if they pull a one and done many fans will be far more disappointed than if they tanked hard and drafted a proper QB as a result. 2nd place is the first loser. Always has been.
VABills Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Perhaps, but the QB is a pretty big apple to replace no matter how "crappy" he may be. Right. But you're asking for 3 new lbers, another cb, another te, another wr. Even with that you guys are saying that fit is still. 9-7 qb. Yet with the same team from last three years and a top tier qb we likely would have been 11-5 once.
Maury Ballstein Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 yes T Jax and the "scrub" at 8 would be just fine IMO. Fitz doesn't belong in the same league as the Mannings/Flaccos/Bradys/Rogers/Newtons etc etc etc etc etc etc of the world. lets just move on.....i can't believe some still show love for #14....i get the fact he's played tough sometimes but ultimately the deck is stacked against him. fees like a "lovable losers vibe" like the Chicago Cubs.
....lybob Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 If we had a top 5 qb the last few years we likely would have made the playoffs at least once. So with one change the team is good enough for playoffs. But folks like you want a bottom fifty qb but top 5 at every other position to make up for his inability to actually help win. Easier to replace one bad apple to make playoffs than 5 Would be if all apples were equal - which is easier getting two gala, one red delicious, one empire, and one Mac or one of the golden apples of Idunn
peterpan Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Why keep Fitz around when having nobody to replace him is just as good as having him? Edited March 11, 2013 by peterpan
Bronc24 Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Fitz not being on a playoff team does not equate Fitz being unable to be on a playoff team. That gets back to the assumption that the QB position is the only problem on this team. We have no LBs, we have poor CBs, we have an underperforming DL. We have an OL that can't pass block for longer than three seconds, we have no real WR talent other than Stevie, and he can only get open underneath usually, we have no play making TE, and we have one RB who can make plays in an open field but can't get really get tough yards reliably. On top of all of that, our starting QB is about average, and forces too many bad throws. So with all these holes, focusing on the QB position when there isn't much to fill it with seems to be counter productive. I suppose I base it on the inevitable fourth quarter turnover that comes when the game is on the line. I guess I base it on the fact that when a game comes down to the wire, I have zero confidence that our QB will pull the game out. I look at the way defenses play our offense and bristle at the total disrespect they give the deep ball, simply because they know we do not have a QB who can complete those passes more than once in a blue moon. Maybe I look at the lack of mechanics when needing to fit a ball into a tight window because without his full body into a throw like a pitcher, Fitz simply does not have the NFL arm strength to get the ball there. I agree we need to upgrade at WR. However, there were several times Stevie was open last year and was missed. There were a number of questionable decisions made by Fitzpatrick. HE LEADS THE LEAGUE IN TOTAL TURNOVERS THE PAST THREE YEARS. To sum up, I don't think Fitz can get a team to the playoffs. Until I'm proved wrong, I will stand by that statement.
JESSEFEFFER Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 I suppose I base it on the inevitable fourth quarter turnover that comes when the game is on the line. I guess I base it on the fact that when a game comes down to the wire, I have zero confidence that our QB will pull the game out. I look at the way defenses play our offense and bristle at the total disrespect they give the deep ball, simply because they know we do not have a QB who can complete those passes more than once in a blue moon. Maybe I look at the lack of mechanics when needing to fit a ball into a tight window because without his full body into a throw like a pitcher, Fitz simply does not have the NFL arm strength to get the ball there. I agree we need to upgrade at WR. However, there were several times Stevie was open last year and was missed. There were a number of questionable decisions made by Fitzpatrick. HE LEADS THE LEAGUE IN TOTAL TURNOVERS THE PAST THREE YEARS. To sum up, I don't think Fitz can get a team to the playoffs. Until I'm proved wrong, I will stand by that statement. The turnovers are a problem but to state it the way you do is misleading. How many QBs have 45 or more starts over the last 3 years. Answer not many. Who is in 2nd place? I think it's Eli Manning who is one behind (with 48 starts.) Turnovers are often a function of being behind and forcing plays. The way the Bills defense has played the last 3 years, being behind is more the norm. Why not do turnovers/game start and get back to us. You could give Fitz some credit for starting 45 games even though, as most QBs do, he has taken a beating. There are those that would have come out. Speaking of Jay Cutler, Fitz has provided as good as or better production than Cutler has over the last 3 years and the bonus is that Fitz is not a jerk. People love the idea of a strong-armed, 1st rounder like Cutler but what has that gotten the Bears? They've actually had a decent defense the last three years. The crunch time failures of 2012 are most troubling to me. Fitz had been a 50/50 kind of guy to play well in the clutch in the two years prior. Last year was a big step backwards.
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