Bill Polian talks Geno & Barkley

[dave mcbride]

Just sayin that thru some of the things I've read about USC QB's leads me to believe they suck. I dunno, Barkley might just be different. The guy is graded by some as a second round pick

 

http://walterfootbal...013mbarkley.php

 

Feb. 20: I've heard from multiple sources that NFL teams are souring on USC quarterbacks because they are viewed more as Hollywood stars than football players. Matt Barkley's decision not to throw at the Combine has prompted similar sentiments from two scouts:

 

"Here we go again, another L.A. movie star quarterback who needs his own day to throw," a veteran scout told Yahoo!

 

"And you wonder why guys from Southern California (are bad)?" a veteran team executive said. "Everything is like they have to draw attention to themselves."

 

When Barkley not being cleared was mentioned, the executive just grew angrier.

 

"I'm telling you, it's always [something] with guys from down there… not just USC, the whole area. I don't know what it is."

 

Its clearly not just me.

 

I do recall almost everyone on this board stating they didn't want another USC Rob Johnson type. Johnson left USC holding virtually ever major passing record and spent much of his senior year as a HT candidate. In his final game for the school, Johnson led his team to victory in the 95 cotton bowl, dominating Texas Tech by a final score of 55-14

 

How players play in college doesn't always translate to the NFL and USC seems to be the opposite of a QB factory for the NFL. I just don't trust Geno Smith either because in some games where his team got behind in the score he couldn't bring them back, and looked very defeated on the sidelines. Jeez, haven't we Bills fans seen enough of that?

RJ had, in sequence, Curtis Conway, Johnny Morton, and Keyshawn Johnson as his top options at WR. All were first round picks and all had great NFL careers, with all of them ending up with 600+ receptions lifetime. His LT was Tony Boselli. Yet he never could beat either ND or UCLA, and in those games tended to come up very, very small. His senior season wasn't what I'd call a disaster, but it was a disappointment. Only 15 TDs and a poor performance v. a less talented UCLA team cost them a Rose Bowl bid (just like the previous year) and then a tie against a very weak ND team to close the season. There's a reason he lasted until the 4th round. That team he was on was extremely talented (they also had Willie McGinest on defense). And once the season started, he was never a serious Heisman candidate.

Edited March 9, 2013 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

To the people that want to draft Matt Barkley didn't learn anything from the Mark Sanchez at #5 in 2009, didn't learn anything from at # 10 in Matt Leinart in 2006. USC QB's are babies. While very QB thats ever drafted looked awesome in his highlight reels, what about when the game is on the line and his team is down by 10+ points. Geno Smith folded in games like that this year.

 

I'm hoping Doug Marrone has some say in this years draft and the Bills skip on the prospect for reaching for a scrub QB.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the most ridiculous thing ever! I'm not a USC fan, but lets look at the facts:

 

3 USC started in the NFL last year. More than any other school

A. Carson Palmer was a top 10 QB in the league before his injury. 2 time probowler. nice career.

B. Mark Sanchez lead his team to one game of the Super Bowl twice. Should have made the probowl in 2011 minus his int's. 1 bad year in 4 year career.

C. Matt Cassel has had an average career. 1 time probowler. Lead his team to the playoffs once, which is more than I can say for any Bills QB in the last decade.

 

I know none of them are of the "Elite" status, but to say USC QB's are babies is insane. And yes, I think Barkley is clearly the top QB this year. Barkley, T. Wilson, Glennon, Geno Smith and Nassib are my top 5 after 2 months of watching film.

Good post. Also, while the Raiders were bad last year, Palmer was actually ok: 4018 yards, 7.1 ypa (8.4 in his first season with the raiders too), 22 tds, 14 picks, and an 85.3 rating. According to pro-football-referenc.com's advanced passer rating, he was exactly league average at 100 (100 is average). He has passed for just about 30,000 yards lifetime and has a lifetime 86.2 rating. Jim Kelly's lifetime rating is 84.4.

[RuntheDamnBall]

The LSU game made me a beliver. That was a GREAT defense with arguably the BEST secondary in the country and Geno Smith made them look silly. Not only with his throws but with his ability to check in and out of plays at the LOS. He used the entire field and had that defense on its toes the entire game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Your just a Kool Aid drinker.

 

Jeez guys, stats and production in college doesn't always translate into the NFL. Just Google failed first round QB's and look at all the bums. Kinda why its so difficult for NFL teams to find a franchise QB. Looking at some college players stats you would think that they would be NFL HoFers once drafted, and instead some don't even make decent back up QB's!

 

So, all in all stop throwing stats and highlights at others, instead look how they played in adversity and "IF" they can win in bad situations. No matter how great the college defense they have faced, its still college its not the pro's.

 

There is a reason why Smith and Barkley are not graded higher then mid first round picks by almost every scout.

What was Joe Flacco graded by almost every scout? Aaron Rodgers? Drew Brees? Tom Brady? Jim freaking Kelly (pick #14)? Colin Kaepernick? Want to continue on this one?

 

Also, if you want to talk about the defenses they've faced, how about the defenses on their own teams? Because the WVU defense cost that team at least three games this season.

[BuffaloFan68]

I'll be happy if we get any of the 3 with the 8th pick: Geno, Barkley or EJ!!!!!!!!!!

[thewildrabbit]

 

What was Joe Flacco graded by almost every scout? Aaron Rodgers? Drew Brees? Tom Brady? Jim freaking Kelly (pick #14)? Colin Kaepernick? Want to continue on this one?

 

Also, if you want to talk about the defenses they've faced, how about the defenses on their own teams? Because the WVU defense cost that team at least three games this season.

Where were all those players drafted, not with the #8 overall for various reasons.

 

Joe Flacco couldn't beat out Tyler Palko while at Pitt, then he went to Delaware, not exactly an NFL football factory and he was very raw coming out of college. So he was graded as a late 1st rounder or #2 with a high burst to bust mark! The Ravens drafted Flacco at #18.

 

Flacco was groomed on a team very different then what the Bills have done the last 20 years as they had a great FO, very solid supporting cast, strong run game, solid defense and didn't ask Flacco to win games all by himself. Remember that 2009 WC playoff game with the Ravens playing AT New England. Flacco went 4 for 10 for 34 yards, and yet the Ravens beat the Patriots 33-14 by pounding the ball with 3 OT's in the game.

 

Drew Brees was projected as a first rounder, but slipped to the first pick in round 2 because of his height at 6'0", and preceived lack of arm strength.

 

Aaron Rodgers: only played two years at Cal, and was considered short for the prototypical NFL QB at 6'2" or slightly shorter came from a college known to inflate passing stats (like Geno Smith). So he was drafted #24 overall. Rodgers was able to sit on the bench behind future first ballot HoFer, legend Brett Favre for 3 years, and learn. Alex Smith was the #1 overall that year and Jason Campbell was drafted right behind Rodgers at 25.

 

"Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature."

 

http://gnb.scout.com/a.z?s=61&p=8&c=1&nid=2983568

 

Tom Brady: was an afterthought and the Patriots just happened to get lucky

 

Jim Kelly: wanted to play for Joe Paterno and attend Penn St, but was offered a scholarship as a LBer. So he went to the U of Miami. Anyway, Kelly suffered a very severe shoulder seperation that ended his senior season while at Miami and had pins inserted in that shoulder. Before that injury he was touted as a Heisman candidate and the Canes for a National Campionship or he could been drafted much earlier.

 

 

There were reasons these man were not graded in the top 10. But look at the dozens of failed QB's drafted in first round that never even made adaquate back up QB's. 1983 QB's Todd Blackledge #7, Tony Eason #15, Ken O Brian #24, all 3 before Dan Marino^ #27 because Marino supposedly was into drugs (alledgedly he smoked pot)

 

86 draft, #3 Jim Everett, #12 Chuck Long

 

87 draft, #1 overall Vinny Testaverde, #6 Kelly Stouffer, #13 Chris Miller, #26 Jim Harbough

 

89 draft #1 overall Troy Aikman*

 

90 draft #1 overall Jeff George, #7 Andre Ware

 

91 draft #16 Dam McGwire, #24 Todd Marinovich

 

92 draft #6 David Klingler, #25 Tommy Maddox

 

93 draft #1 overall Drew Bledsoe^, # 2 Rick Mirer

 

94 draft #3 Heath Schuler, #6 Trent Dilfer*

 

95 draft, #3 Steve McNair^, #5 Kerry Collins

 

97 draft #26 Jim Druckenmiller

 

98 draft #1 overall Peyton Manning*, #2 Ryan leaf

 

99 draft #1 Tim Couch, #2 Donovan McNabb^, #3 Akili Smith, #11 Dante Culpepper, #12 Cade McNown

 

2000 draft #18 Chad Pennington

 

2001 draft #1 overall Michael Vick^

 

2002 draft #1 overall David Carr, #3 Joey Harrington, #32 Patrick Ramsey

 

2003 draft #1 overall Carson Palmer^, #7 Byron Leftwich, #19 Kyle Boller, #22 Rex Grossman

 

2004, draft #1 overall Eli Manning*, #4 Phillip Rivers, #11 Ben Roethlisberger*, #22 JP Losman

 

2005 draft #1 overall Alex Smith, #24 Aaron Rodgers*, #25 Jason Campbell

 

2006 draft #3 Vince Young, #10 Matt leinart, #11 Jay Cutler

 

2007 draft #1 overall JaMarcus Russell, #22 Brady Quinn

 

2008 draft #3 Matt Ryan, #18 Joe Flacco*

 

2009 draft #1 overall Matthew Stafford, #5 Mark Sanchez, #17 Josh Freeman

 

2010 draft #1 overall Sam Bradford, #25 Tim Tebow

 

2011 draft #1 overall Cam Newton, #8 Jake Locker, #10 Blane Gabbert, #12 Christian Ponder

 

2012 draft Andrew Luck, #2 RG3, #8 Ryan Tannehill, #22 Brandon Weeden

 

Roughly 63 QB's taken in the first round, and out of all those 8 have won a SB,and another 7 have been to a SB.

 

Just look at all those bums!! So, explain why the Bills should reach for a QB in this years draft when the odds are against them even finding a starter for very long, particulary with Buddy Nix making the choice.

 

The players that made it to a SB were all on teams that had a great player supporting cast around them, top coaching and a good front office.

[Dibs]

.....

Just look at all those bums!! So, explain why the Bills should reach for a QB in this years draft when the odds are against them even finding a starter for very long, particulary with Buddy Nix making the choice.

 

So we don't use a 1st round pick to try to find an Elite QB because the odds are against it happening?

Where do we find our Elite QB from then?

 

BTW.....the odds are against finding a starter for very long, for any position picked in the 1st round.

 

 

.....

 

The players that made it to a SB were all on teams that had a great player supporting cast around them, top coaching and a good front office.

 

That is simply not true. In recent times(last 13 years) teams win(& lose) the SB with average play in many areas of the team.....as well as poor play in certain areas.

 

The only true commonality in SB winning teams is having an Elite QB......and the only place to have a realistic chance of getting an Elite QB is in the 1st round of the draft.

[Big Gun]

I personally don't think Marrone wants any part of Smith. From the way Marrone seemed to slow him down every time he played against him, I'm going to say Marrone will pass on him.

 

Smith's three games against Marrone

 

3 losses and Smith scored 14, 23, 14 points

 

63/106

717 yards

5 TDs 5 Ints

11 sacks

91 yards rushing

 

Marrone was doing something right when game planning for Smith. Also heard Geno was one of those, half the field guys. No thanks.

[Orton's Arm]

So we don't use a 1st round pick to try to find an Elite QB because the odds are against it happening?

Where do we find our Elite QB from then?

 

BTW.....the odds are against finding a starter for very long, for any position picked in the 1st round.

 

 

 

 

That is simply not true. In recent times(last 13 years) teams win(& lose) the SB with average play in many areas of the team.....as well as poor play in certain areas.

 

The only true commonality in SB winning teams is having an Elite QB......and the only place to have a realistic chance of getting an Elite QB is in the 1st round of the draft.

 

This.

[dave mcbride]

So we don't use a 1st round pick to try to find an Elite QB because the odds are against it happening?

Where do we find our Elite QB from then?

 

BTW.....the odds are against finding a starter for very long, for any position picked in the 1st round.

 

 

 

 

That is simply not true. In recent times(last 13 years) teams win(& lose) the SB with average play in many areas of the team.....as well as poor play in certain areas.

 

The only true commonality in SB winning teams is having an Elite QB......and the only place to have a realistic chance of getting an Elite QB is in the 1st round of the draft.

 

Yep.

[Prickly Pete]

Where were all those players drafted, not with the #8 overall for various reasons.

 

Joe Flacco couldn't beat out Tyler Palko while at Pitt, then he went to Delaware, not exactly an NFL football factory and he was very raw coming out of college. So he was graded as a late 1st rounder or #2 with a high burst to bust mark! The Ravens drafted Flacco at #18.

 

Flacco was groomed on a team very different then what the Bills have done the last 20 years as they had a great FO, very solid supporting cast, strong run game, solid defense and didn't ask Flacco to win games all by himself. Remember that 2009 WC playoff game with the Ravens playing AT New England. Flacco went 4 for 10 for 34 yards, and yet the Ravens beat the Patriots 33-14 by pounding the ball with 3 OT's in the game.

 

Drew Brees was projected as a first rounder, but slipped to the first pick in round 2 because of his height at 6'0", and preceived lack of arm strength.

 

Aaron Rodgers: only played two years at Cal, and was considered short for the prototypical NFL QB at 6'2" or slightly shorter came from a college known to inflate passing stats (like Geno Smith). So he was drafted #24 overall. Rodgers was able to sit on the bench behind future first ballot HoFer, legend Brett Favre for 3 years, and learn. Alex Smith was the #1 overall that year and Jason Campbell was drafted right behind Rodgers at 25.

 

"Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature."

 

http://gnb.scout.com...c=1&nid=2983568

 

Tom Brady: was an afterthought and the Patriots just happened to get lucky

 

Jim Kelly: wanted to play for Joe Paterno and attend Penn St, but was offered a scholarship as a LBer. So he went to the U of Miami. Anyway, Kelly suffered a very severe shoulder seperation that ended his senior season while at Miami and had pins inserted in that shoulder. Before that injury he was touted as a Heisman candidate and the Canes for a National Campionship or he could been drafted much earlier.

 

 

There were reasons these man were not graded in the top 10. But look at the dozens of failed QB's drafted in first round that never even made adaquate back up QB's. 1983 QB's Todd Blackledge #7, Tony Eason #15, Ken O Brian #24, all 3 before Dan Marino^ #27 because Marino supposedly was into drugs (alledgedly he smoked pot)

 

86 draft, #3 Jim Everett, #12 Chuck Long

 

87 draft, #1 overall Vinny Testaverde, #6 Kelly Stouffer, #13 Chris Miller, #26 Jim Harbough

 

89 draft #1 overall Troy Aikman*

 

90 draft #1 overall Jeff George, #7 Andre Ware

 

91 draft #16 Dam McGwire, #24 Todd Marinovich

 

92 draft #6 David Klingler, #25 Tommy Maddox

 

93 draft #1 overall Drew Bledsoe^, # 2 Rick Mirer

 

94 draft #3 Heath Schuler, #6 Trent Dilfer*

 

95 draft, #3 Steve McNair^, #5 Kerry Collins

 

97 draft #26 Jim Druckenmiller

 

98 draft #1 overall Peyton Manning*, #2 Ryan leaf

 

99 draft #1 Tim Couch, #2 Donovan McNabb^, #3 Akili Smith, #11 Dante Culpepper, #12 Cade McNown

 

2000 draft #18 Chad Pennington

 

2001 draft #1 overall Michael Vick^

 

2002 draft #1 overall David Carr, #3 Joey Harrington, #32 Patrick Ramsey

 

2003 draft #1 overall Carson Palmer^, #7 Byron Leftwich, #19 Kyle Boller, #22 Rex Grossman

 

2004, draft #1 overall Eli Manning*, #4 Phillip Rivers, #11 Ben Roethlisberger*, #22 JP Losman

 

2005 draft #1 overall Alex Smith, #24 Aaron Rodgers*, #25 Jason Campbell

 

2006 draft #3 Vince Young, #10 Matt leinart, #11 Jay Cutler

 

2007 draft #1 overall JaMarcus Russell, #22 Brady Quinn

 

2008 draft #3 Matt Ryan, #18 Joe Flacco*

 

2009 draft #1 overall Matthew Stafford, #5 Mark Sanchez, #17 Josh Freeman

 

2010 draft #1 overall Sam Bradford, #25 Tim Tebow

 

2011 draft #1 overall Cam Newton, #8 Jake Locker, #10 Blane Gabbert, #12 Christian Ponder

 

2012 draft Andrew Luck, #2 RG3, #8 Ryan Tannehill, #22 Brandon Weeden

 

Roughly 63 QB's taken in the first round, and out of all those 8 have won a SB,and another 7 have been to a SB.

 

Just look at all those bums!! So, explain why the Bills should reach for a QB in this years draft when the odds are against them even finding a starter for very long, particulary with Buddy Nix making the choice.

 

The players that made it to a SB were all on teams that had a great player supporting cast around them, top coaching and a good front office.

 

You have convinced me that they should draft TWO quarterbacks, using their 1st and 2nd picks!

Edited March 10, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[Saint Doug]

 

 

You have convinced me that they should draft TWO quarterbacks, using their 1st and 2nd picks!

 

This is really not a bad idea. It would increase our odds and we really need that at this point. I don't even care if it means us losing out at another position. If we get a franchise QB and nothing else, the draft will be a success.

 

My only hesitation is that it's asking for a QB controversy. We'll have to listen to "put (insert name) in" all season.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Totally in favor of drafting 2 quarterbacks.

 

It worked very well for Washington.

 

I'd be perfectly fine with TJax and Manuel and Scott, for instance.

[thewildrabbit]

I didn't state the Bills shouldn't draft a QB this year, in fact I've been saying at #8 they should draft an OT, OG or trade back in the first or wait till the second round. In other posts I even mentioned drafting 2 QB's this year, just not one with that #8 pick. Teams that reach for a QB usually end up making a huge mistake

.

Now go back and look at the teams drafting a QB in the first round beyond the #1 overall and look at how many have failed Since the 1983 (almost 30 years) draft, Trent Dilfer, Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco, so recently only 4 out of 63 won SB's in that list. If they can't get that #1 overall then teams have been better off drafting after the 1st round is my point. Several others made it to the SB but didn't win it.

 

 

Then, Buddy Nix is making this pick, yeah the same Nix who decided he wouldn't take a QB in the draft unless he was graded as an elite QB. He had only Cam Newton with that grade that we know of... he didn't try to acquire FA QB Peyton Manning. He also passed on Colin Kaepernick to draft CB Aaron Williams, selected DT Torell Troupe over TE Rob Gronkowki, moved up in last years draft to pick a 5th round WR in the 3rd instead of drafting QB Russell Wilson.

 

If anything, Nix has shown he knows how to properly evaluate O line talent with his waiver wire pick ups and drafting Cordy Glenn who fell to the 2nd round last year. Kinda why I've been touting the Bills to select an OT vs a QB with that #8.

Edited March 11, 2013 by FeartheLosing