San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Barkley has thrown for 12327yds and 116TDs in his four years at USC. That does not sound average to me. As Beerball surmised, the conversation was about arm strength. As I've been saying for some time now, I believe Barkley's arm strength is average at best. My point was that it's alright to be a pocket passer like Brady and Manning (who were mentioned as pocket passers who don't need to scramble) if like Brady and Manning, you have a strong arm.
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 As Beerball surmised, the conversation was about arm strength. As I've been saying for some time now, I believe Barkley's arm strength is average at best. My point was that it's alright to be a pocket passer like Brady and Manning (who were mentioned as pocket passers who don't need to scramble) if like Brady and Manning, you have a strong arm. I am with you but, to play devil's advocate, isn't it fair to say that Brady's arm was nothing special, then he worked to get it stronger? There are certainly gifts that nature endows you with, but I think he has / had gotten better in terms of arm strength both for zip and for distant accuracy when those were not his strong suits before.
mEAz Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 As Beerball surmised, the conversation was about arm strength. As I've been saying for some time now, I believe Barkley's arm strength is average at best. My point was that it's alright to be a pocket passer like Brady and Manning (who were mentioned as pocket passers who don't need to scramble) if like Brady and Manning, you have a strong arm. Drew Brees, Matt Ryan.....not elite arms....would you take one of those guys? You don't have to answer, it's rhetorical and obvious. My point was that there are different types of QB's and Barkley's 40 time should not be a reason for not drafting him. I'm not lobbying for him to be the pick, I'm just stating fact.
Dibs Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 I am a little concerned that we showed interest in Alex Smith. That's not to say that I don't think that he is a good QB.....I do think that. I would place him in the 2nd tier of QBs. By showing interest in A Smith, it is clear that the prime focus for the Bills is to win some more games and make the playoffs. On the surface, that sounds like a good strategy. The problem is that it is invariably the top tier QBs who win the Super Bowls. Having a 2nd tier guy usually means that he stays with your team till he gets too old.....and usually he commands a high priced contract.....and he will only have the tiniest of chances to lead your team to the promised land. Going after a 2nd tier QB in my mind is saying....."Forget about becoming Champions.....we'll keep the fans placated by offering them wins/playoffs instead." .....unless our FO believes that he can become a 1st tier QB which is worrying in itself. I want us to win games and regularly make the playoffs.....but I really, really, really want us to win the Super Bowl.
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 I am a little concerned that we showed interest in Alex Smith. That's not to say that I don't think that he is a good QB.....I do think that. I would place him in the 2nd tier of QBs. By showing interest in A Smith, it is clear that the prime focus for the Bills is to win some more games and make the playoffs. On the surface, that sounds like a good strategy. The problem is that it is invariably the top tier QBs who win the Super Bowls. Having a 2nd tier guy usually means that he stays with your team till he gets too old.....and usually he commands a high priced contract.....and he will only have the tiniest of chances to lead your team to the promised land. Going after a 2nd tier QB in my mind is saying....."Forget about becoming Champions.....we'll keep the fans placated by offering them wins/playoffs instead." .....unless our FO believes that he can become a 1st tier QB which is worrying in itself. I want us to win games and regularly make the playoffs.....but I really, really, really want us to win the Super Bowl. I strongly disagree. They have to get into the playoffs before they can even get a shot at the Super Bowl. Decent play at QB could have taken this team to the playoffs, fatally flawed as it was, over the past two seasons. I am not about to saddle Fitz with the litany of failures this team achieved over the past few years, but it was clear he didn't have it from about game 8 last year. The league had figured him out, and he could not contribute enough to win games. I feel like Smith has at least turned that corner, where he can contribute enough to win games. He is not and never will be an All Pro. But he can get the job done for you, and some consistency at that position would allow the Bills to really target the best QB they can get over the next two years. As it is they are practically forced to take Barkley or Smith if they are there at #8. If they end up without one after round 2, it will be devastating for the franchise.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 I am with you but, to play devil's advocate, isn't it fair to say that Brady's arm was nothing special, then he worked to get it stronger? There are certainly gifts that nature endows you with, but I think he has / had gotten better in terms of arm strength both for zip and for distant accuracy when those were not his strong suits before. Yes, Brady developed and improved his throwing quite a bit. But Brady is a tall lanky guy (like Eli, like Flacco, like Mallete) who has the kind of build and body geometry that lends itself to throwing the ball well. I don't see that with Barkley who seems shorter and thicker. I'm not seeing the athletic upside with Barkley. Drew Brees, Matt Ryan.....not elite arms....would you take one of those guys? You don't have to answer, it's rhetorical and obvious. My point was that there are different types of QB's and Barkley's 40 time should not be a reason for not drafting him. I'm not lobbying for him to be the pick, I'm just stating fact. As I've said a few times now, it's alright if Barkley is both slow and has an average arm, as long as his intangibles are off the charts. I didn't follow Ryan in college but Brees' intangibles were off the charts at Purdue. I don't get that sense from Barkley. I don't care if he's a hard worker. So is Tim Tebow. So was Joe Vitti. If you don't have the talent you have to have the intangibles. I'm not seeing them. I am a little concerned that we showed interest in Alex Smith. That's not to say that I don't think that he is a good QB.....I do think that. I would place him in the 2nd tier of QBs. By showing interest in A Smith, it is clear that the prime focus for the Bills is to win some more games and make the playoffs. On the surface, that sounds like a good strategy. The problem is that it is invariably the top tier QBs who win the Super Bowls. Having a 2nd tier guy usually means that he stays with your team till he gets too old.....and usually he commands a high priced contract.....and he will only have the tiniest of chances to lead your team to the promised land. Going after a 2nd tier QB in my mind is saying....."Forget about becoming Champions.....we'll keep the fans placated by offering them wins/playoffs instead." .....unless our FO believes that he can become a 1st tier QB which is worrying in itself. I want us to win games and regularly make the playoffs.....but I really, really, really want us to win the Super Bowl. It seems though like you're assuming that if the Bills landed Smith that they wouldn't have drafted a quarterback. But do we really know this to be the case? Maybe the Bills would have replicated Seattle's strategy last year with Flynn and Wilson. We don't really know.
Dibs Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 I strongly disagree. They have to get into the playoffs before they can even get a shot at the Super Bowl. Decent play at QB could have taken this team to the playoffs, fatally flawed as it was, over the past two seasons. I am not about to saddle Fitz with the litany of failures this team achieved over the past few years, but it was clear he didn't have it from about game 8 last year. The league had figured him out, and he could not contribute enough to win games. I feel like Smith has at least turned that corner, where he can contribute enough to win games. He is not and never will be an All Pro. But he can get the job done for you, and some consistency at that position would allow the Bills to really target the best QB they can get over the next two years. As it is they are practically forced to take Barkley or Smith if they are there at #8. If they end up without one after round 2, it will be devastating for the franchise. My point is that when you have a solid starter at QB who can regularly win you games and get you into the playoffs.....you don't look for a better one. I understand that most people will never agree with me.....and when I tilt my head a little, I hardly agree with myself on this.....but when I look at the big picture, I don't want the Bills to just be a solid team with virtually no chance to win the SB each year. I personally would be willing to put up with another 5+ years of non-playoffs if it means that we find a QB who can take us all the way. Yes, Brady developed and improved his throwing quite a bit. But Brady is a tall lanky guy (like Eli, like Flacco, like Mallete) who has the kind of build and body geometry that lends itself to throwing the ball well. I don't see that with Barkley who seems shorter and thicker. I'm not seeing the athletic upside with Barkley. As I've said a few times now, it's alright if Barkley is both slow and has an average arm, as long as his intangibles are off the charts. I didn't follow Ryan in college but Brees' intangibles were off the charts at Purdue. I don't get that sense from Barkley. I don't care if he's a hard worker. So is Tim Tebow. So was Joe Vitti. If you don't have the talent you have to have the intangibles. I'm not seeing them. It seems though like you're assuming that if the Bills landed Smith that they wouldn't have drafted a quarterback. But do we really know this to be the case? Maybe the Bills would have replicated Seattle's strategy last year with Flynn and Wilson. We don't really know. I agree that one can never know.....but some things are more or less likely than others. There is enough doubt that we won't select a QB in the 1st round this year as it is.....does anybody think that if we traded valuable draft picks for a QB who could settle the team, win games & get us into the playoffs that we would also spend a 1st round pick on QB? We would have Smith as an entrenched starter until he either got injures, retired, or we managed to trade him. Neither Flynn nor Wilson are comparable. Flynn still has not shown anything substantial in the NFL(2 starts in 5 years)......and Wilson was a 3rd round pick who(assuming he maintains his level of play) astoundingly became a very good QB. You can throw 3rd-7th round picks at QBs for decades without seeing one that becomes a solid starter let alone a star player.
jcbillsfan Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 with 2 twos i would take my chances of draft a qb both years , odds are you hit one who is better then smith , it is nice to know they are looking at every possibility
Dibs Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) with 2 twos i would take my chances of draft a qb both years , odds are you hit one who is better then smith , it is nice to know they are looking at every possibility Not unless both picks happen to be at the very, very top of the 2nd round......and even then it's likely a 25% chance(total) at best that you come away with a QB of equal worth to Smith. Edited March 7, 2013 by Dibs
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Yes, Brady developed and improved his throwing quite a bit. But Brady is a tall lanky guy (like Eli, like Flacco, like Mallete) who has the kind of build and body geometry that lends itself to throwing the ball well. I don't see that with Barkley who seems shorter and thicker. I'm not seeing the athletic upside with Barkley. As I've said a few times now, it's alright if Barkley is both slow and has an average arm, as long as his intangibles are off the charts. I didn't follow Ryan in college but Brees' intangibles were off the charts at Purdue. I don't get that sense from Barkley. I don't care if he's a hard worker. So is Tim Tebow. So was Joe Vitti. If you don't have the talent you have to have the intangibles. I'm not seeing them. It seems though like you're assuming that if the Bills landed Smith that they wouldn't have drafted a quarterback. But do we really know this to be the case? Maybe the Bills would have replicated Seattle's strategy last year with Flynn and Wilson. We don't really know. That doesn't always matter. People said Tebow's intangibles were off the charts and we all know how that story ended. CBF
Recommended Posts