Magox Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Supposing Levitre wants $7-8 mil, I'd rather use the money to make a run at one of the top RTs like Loadholt or Vollmer. Then, if G Smith & Barkley are off the board at 8, take the best LT, move Glenn to LG, & watch the O-line just physically dominate the competition. Can you imagine that line? L Johnson - Glenn - Wood - Urbik - Loadholt Can you imagine? Fisher-Levitre-Wood-Urbik-Glenn
BillsVet Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Can you imagine? Fisher-Levitre-Wood-Urbik-Glenn Not to mention all the talent at the skill positions with that offensive line. They'd be stacked.
LiterateStylish Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 All the talk on the first page about signing one first so you know what you have to negotiate with is a bunch of hogwash. You don't have to have a degree in mathematics to run numbers based on scenario. You don't have to even have a high school diploma. This is basic math. Stupid Bills doing the same stupid things.
Wayne Cubed Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) All the talk on the first page about signing one first so you know what you have to negotiate with is a bunch of hogwash. You don't have to have a degree in mathematics to run numbers based on scenario. You don't have to even have a high school diploma. This is basic math. Stupid Bills doing the same stupid things. Actually you are completely wrong. You don't run a business based on what if's and scenarios. On Feb 13 Mark Gaughan published what the Bills actual cap number was at the time, $116 million. With the cap being set at $121 million at that time and the Bills being able to roll over about $9 million that left their available cap number at about $130 millions. Leaving the Bills with about $14 million to sign free agents. Subtract rookie salarys from the draft, which is around $5 million, that reduces the number to $9 million. You don't walk into negotiations for a FA like Levitre with only $9 million in space to work with. Especially if you value Byrd over Levitre and are trying to work his contract out. This is exactly "basic math" as you put it. But yea, people running the Bills finances, I'm sure don't have a high school diploma. Hell this is just child's play. Edited March 5, 2013 by Wayne Cubed
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Not to mention all the talent at the skill positions with that offensive line. They'd be stacked. That might really be the best solution for the offense if there is no geno smith at 8. With that offensive line and spiller/jackson, we should be able to do the ground and pound that worked well for the 49ers and the jests (when they went to the 2 afc championship games). I wouldn't rule out an OT at 8 if one of them falls to us. I cant imagine fisher falling, but then again, this draft is so hard to predict, it is quite possible. I don't know where they go with the first pick. But if the first pick isn't QB, I am pretty sure our second pick will be.
mattsox Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 http://profootballta...ing-from-bills/ “I’m in limbo right now,” Levitre said. “I don’t know what their plan is. “Now that Jairus got his franchise tag, there’s a week and a half for them to work a deal out with me. But I haven’t been offered anything yet. We’re waiting around to see if something will pop up.” I agree with Levitre, What the Heck is going on at OBD? Do they have any type of solid offseason plan or they just gonna wing it? And by the way, how does Buddy Nix have a job??? We're right back to square one again...
BuffBill Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 It would be nice to keep him, but if he is looking for Elite money, he isn't worth it, although someone will give it to him. He is a real good pass blocking guard, not great on run blocking, who is dependable, but not elite. It appears pretty likely that he is gone-hope he takes Fitz with him.
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Actually you are completely wrong. You don't run a business based on what if's and scenarios. On Feb 13 Mark Gaughan published what the Bills actual cap number was at the time, $116 million. With the cap being set at $121 million at that time and the Bills being able to roll over about $9 million that left their available cap number at about $130 millions. Leaving the Bills with about $14 million to sign free agents. Subtract rookie salarys from the draft, which is around $5 million, that reduces the number to $9 million. You don't walk into negotiations for a FA like Levitre with only $9 million in space to work with. Especially if you value Byrd over Levitre and are trying to work his contract out. This is exactly "basic math" as you put it. But yea, people running the Bills finances, I'm sure don't have a high school diploma. Hell this is just child's play. On the other hand, it was known since Byrd and Levitre signed their rookie contracts that they would both be coming up for second contracts at the same time. That is plenty of time for someone to come up with a plan on how to manage the cap. In fact, a child could probably figure out how to save their allowance over 3 years to buy 2 toys that they want. Why penalize yourself for actually drafting well enough once in a generation that you have more than 1 player that you should keep? Do the better teams franchise a DB and let the lineman walk?
Wayne Cubed Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 On the other hand, it was known since Byrd and Levitre signed their rookie contracts that they would both be coming up for second contracts at the same time. That is plenty of time for someone to come up with a plan on how to manage the cap. In fact, a child could probably figure out how to save their allowance over 3 years to buy 2 toys that they want. Why penalize yourself for actually drafting well enough once in a generation that you have more than 1 player that you should keep? Do the better teams franchise a DB and let the lineman walk? I agree with that, completely. The problem is there is too many variables. Should the Bills not gone after MW when they were in desperate need of a pass rush? What if the kid was saving for 3 years but at year 2 a new toy comes out, that they have an opportunity to buy. Or lets say one of their favorite toys breaks and they have to spend some of the money they have been saving on that.
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I agree with that, completely. The problem is there is too many variables. Should the Bills not gone after MW when they were in desperate need of a pass rush? What if the kid was saving for 3 years but at year 2 a new toy comes out, that they have an opportunity to buy. Or lets say one of their favorite toys breaks and they have to spend some of the money they have been saving on that. Well, it's for sure that the Mario contract flies in the face of Buddy's "that money belongs to the guys we develop here" mantra. On the other hand, it did generate some good press along with the warm fuzzy feeling of having Dave Wannstedt cranking up a dominant top 5 or 10 defensive unit. Did someone mention the Jets...
BillsVet Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 That might really be the best solution for the offense if there is no geno smith at 8. With that offensive line and spiller/jackson, we should be able to do the ground and pound that worked well for the 49ers and the jests (when they went to the 2 afc championship games). I wouldn't rule out an OT at 8 if one of them falls to us. I cant imagine fisher falling, but then again, this draft is so hard to predict, it is quite possible. I don't know where they go with the first pick. But if the first pick isn't QB, I am pretty sure our second pick will be. Looking at trends, Nix has never been affiliated with a team that took an OT in round 1. I don't think that's a coincidence anymore, given that he's been in admin personnel jobs since 2001 or so. And if anything, he's not a fan of smaller OT's like Joeckel or Fisher, who aren't mauler types. Nix has already tried the strategy of building the OL and defense before acquiring the QB. He wants to give the QB all the chance in the world to succeed, which, while admirable, is a methodology stuck in 1990. By the time you get the QB after 2-3 years of rebuilding, many of your picks are coming due.
CSBill Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 The more we learn about how the Bills are dealing with residing players -- or, not -- the more I think this is a dysfunctional system. WHy has there been so little communication with the current players--Fitz, David Nelson, and now Levitre, have all said as much. And whom would be responsible for that? Buddy Nix! My trust in him is getting lower and lower.
Fan in Chicago Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 By the time you get the QB after 2-3 years of rebuilding, many of your picks are coming due. And hitting their prime. While I wanted Nix to draft a QB last year, the situation is ideal for a new QB if we add 1-2 WRs and keep Levitre.
LiterateStylish Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Actually you are completely wrong. You don't run a business based on what if's and scenarios. On Feb 13 Mark Gaughan published what the Bills actual cap number was at the time, $116 million. With the cap being set at $121 million at that time and the Bills being able to roll over about $9 million that left their available cap number at about $130 millions. Leaving the Bills with about $14 million to sign free agents. Subtract rookie salarys from the draft, which is around $5 million, that reduces the number to $9 million. You don't walk into negotiations for a FA like Levitre with only $9 million in space to work with. Especially if you value Byrd over Levitre and are trying to work his contract out. This is exactly "basic math" as you put it. But yea, people running the Bills finances, I'm sure don't have a high school diploma. Hell this is just child's play. You made my point for me. The Bills KNEW how much money they were going to have to spend for Byrd and Levitre, ball park. They absolutely could enter negotiations with that ball park number. OR they could know they weren't going to have enough money and inform his agent that it simply wasn't going to work. They did neither. Perhaps you need to re-read my post. I never said they should have entered negotiations or that they would have enough money. I said the theory that the Bills needed to sign Byrd first to see what money they had left over is hogwash. They knew a very good ballpark number of what they were going to have to give to Levitre after Byrd was franchised. As far as your snide comment about the Bills finance guys not knowing what they're doing - has ANYONE in the Bills organization shown over the last decade that they know what their doing? If this was the Packers, you can make that comment. If this is the Patriots, you can make that comment. If this was the Steelers, you can make that comment. But it's not. It's the Buffalo Bills. The most inept organization, top to bottom, in the entire league over the past decade plus. So NO, I don't trust their finance guys. And as far as childs play goes, I think even a child could have gotten us to a playoff spot at least once over the past 13 years.
Mr. WEO Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Not to mention all the talent at the skill positions with that offensive line. They'd be stacked. Ha! I hear you!
K-9 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 You made my point for me. The Bills KNEW how much money they were going to have to spend for Byrd and Levitre, ball park. They absolutely could enter negotiations with that ball park number. OR they could know they weren't going to have enough money and inform his agent that it simply wasn't going to work. They did neither. Perhaps you need to re-read my post. I never said they should have entered negotiations or that they would have enough money. I said the theory that the Bills needed to sign Byrd first to see what money they had left over is hogwash. They knew a very good ballpark number of what they were going to have to give to Levitre after Byrd was franchised. As far as your snide comment about the Bills finance guys not knowing what they're doing - has ANYONE in the Bills organization shown over the last decade that they know what their doing? If this was the Packers, you can make that comment. If this is the Patriots, you can make that comment. If this was the Steelers, you can make that comment. But it's not. It's the Buffalo Bills. The most inept organization, top to bottom, in the entire league over the past decade plus. So NO, I don't trust their finance guys. And as far as childs play goes, I think even a child could have gotten us to a playoff spot at least once over the past 13 years. You should submit your resume to Russ. But for the record, the decision to franchise Byrd was a no-brainer from both a football and financial viewpoint. And NEITHER player was going to re-sign before free agency unless the Bills were going to immediately offer to make them the highest paid players at their respective positions. And that WOULN'T have made sense from EITHER a football OR financial viewpoint. Hard to argue their ineptness given their record the last 13 years. But the Byrd/Levitre situations aren't an example of that. GO BILLS!!!
BillsVet Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 And hitting their prime. While I wanted Nix to draft a QB last year, the situation is ideal for a new QB if we add 1-2 WRs and keep Levitre. That's a huge IF. Both positions are unsurprisingly weak in UFA, particularly with Buddy's believing receivers need to be bigger than a Welker, Jennings, or Wallace. The QB, well, we know those are never available in UFA, so it stands to reason these 3 players would come from the draft. And with Buddy's record there, it's not likely they'll get them in 1 year.
bills1960 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Tell me how this team will be any better if they let Levitre go and take either an OT or Chance Warmack in the first round? We all watched the games last year!!! Was it the offensive line's fault we lost 10 games last year? Heck no, in fact I'd say they're the reason we even won 6! Pay Levitre his deserved money, keep Glenn on the left side and Hairston or Pears on the right and address some positions we actually need to get better. Honestly, I'd rather take another corner with the 8th overall pick! I know thats blasphemy to say on this board but you can't tell me our secondary is as far along as our offensive line is. To me, letting him walk and drafting an offensive lineman is just treading the waters of mediocracy.
apuszczalowski Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Tell me how this team will be any better if they let Levitre go and take either an OT or Chance Warmack in the first round? We all watched the games last year!!! Was it the offensive line's fault we lost 10 games last year? Heck no, in fact I'd say they're the reason we even won 6! Pay Levitre his deserved money, keep Glenn on the left side and Hairston or Pears on the right and address some positions we actually need to get better. Honestly, I'd rather take another corner with the 8th overall pick! I know thats blasphemy to say on this board but you can't tell me our secondary is as far along as our offensive line is. To me, letting him walk and drafting an offensive lineman is just treading the waters of mediocracy. If letting a really expensive linemen go, in order to have the money to upgrade an even bigger weakness (say LB) in FA it may actually help improve the team instead of just treading water. If they can draft a good LG early, and then using the money saved on Levitre on 2 LBers might be a wiser choice then spending a ton on Levitre and drafting one LBer. Sometimes you have to make cuts to a stronger area in order to improve a weaker area, and sometimes, even your best guys may not fit the type of player a new coach wants at that position. Maybe Marrone and his coaching staff want a different kind of LG for the offence they plan on running and feel that they can let Levitre walk and get better value bringing in someone that fits their system?
Wayne Cubed Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 You made my point for me. The Bills KNEW how much money they were going to have to spend for Byrd and Levitre, ball park. They absolutely could enter negotiations with that ball park number. OR they could know they weren't going to have enough money and inform his agent that it simply wasn't going to work. They did neither. Perhaps you need to re-read my post. I never said they should have entered negotiations or that they would have enough money. I said the theory that the Bills needed to sign Byrd first to see what money they had left over is hogwash. They knew a very good ballpark number of what they were going to have to give to Levitre after Byrd was franchised. As far as your snide comment about the Bills finance guys not knowing what they're doing - has ANYONE in the Bills organization shown over the last decade that they know what their doing? If this was the Packers, you can make that comment. If this is the Patriots, you can make that comment. If this was the Steelers, you can make that comment. But it's not. It's the Buffalo Bills. The most inept organization, top to bottom, in the entire league over the past decade plus. So NO, I don't trust their finance guys. And as far as childs play goes, I think even a child could have gotten us to a playoff spot at least once over the past 13 years. Huh? Why would you enter negotiations with 2 players if you don't have enough for both? Wouldn't it make more sense to figure out 1 player, in this situation it's Byrd because his franchise tag is less so therefore less of a cap hit? And at the same time cut and make more room under the cap. Then go back to that 2nd player with an actual number. Signing Levitre/Byrd and entertaining other FA's on 9 million, is not possible.
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