Ramius Posted March 2, 2013 Posted March 2, 2013 I like this post, but I'm not sure that I am in full agreement with it. Allow me to preface my response by admitting that I was pulled, kicking and seaming, into the reality that the rule changes have made the NFL into a passing, qb driven league. But, I have arrived. Now, as far as the bolded above, I am not so sure. Dalton is a kid. He, imo, has the potential to be in the same class as Schuab. Is Schuab good enough to win it all? This season tells us that he might be. The following is a list of QBs who did not reach the Superbowl this season: 1) Big Ben 2) Drew Brees 3) Peyton Manning 4) Tom Brady 5) Eli Manning Now, is Flacco, contract and all, an "elite" QB? I am not so sure. He has a cannon but I swear, I think he was lucky in the SB, particularly in the early part of the game. As Badol pointed out in another thread, the 49ers pass rush was weakened, and their secondary was exposed. And Kaep, with all of his amazing talent, is also a kid. He may soon be, but is not at the moment a QB that I personally would consider to be elite. I think that n the near future, intelligence and the ability to run will be huge factors in QB success. It's ironic, but Fitz is a genius, and actually, despite his frame, is a better than average runner for a qb imo. He just doesn't have the passing skills. It really is a shame. I don't know much about Dalton in terms of his IQ or wonderlic scores. Do you? What I DO know is that I would MUCH rather have Dalton, Kaep, or even Mallet on this team than lousy players such as Sheppard and A. Williams. The jury is still out on Dalton, that's for sure. I'm just basing my opinion on what i've seen from him. I just don't see him as the type of guy who can gut it out and pick up a team and carry them to victory, like the 5 guys you listed. As for Flacco, he's shown that he's got the ability to play out of his mind when the huge chips are on the table, especially in the last 2 seasons. I still don't want Dalton, but passing on Kaep is honestly mind-boggling. He was the perfect fit to a Gailey offense, so i'm not sure why he wasn't considered. Hopefully we solve the QB situation this offseason.
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 again five year build not 3. While it's nice to grant a revised timeline, this is torpedoed by the facts on the ground. Before last year, both Buddy and Chan were talking about 2012 being time to deliver. After their failure, Chan was fired (not given 2 more years) along with his staff and there has been some not insignificant changes in the front office with Ralph stepping down and steady speculation as to Buddy's impending "ride into the sunset". So while you may be right that the Bills won't see the playoffs for at least 2 more years, the evidence is no one in the organization actually subscribed to this ex post facto "5 year plan" 3 years ago.
thewildrabbit Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 If you could hand pick a perfect GM for a overdue struggling team, who would it be? First off I'd never make Russ Brandon CEO / president,,,him and his silly idea of bringing moneyball to football. But then, that has been the downfall of the Buffalo Bills since Bill Polian / John Butler were fired. This owner has been the president of the franchise when he has no football acumen, and so he ran it like a business that only wants to make money. Now to the question, Fire Brandon or give him a job on the money side. Hire Thomas Dimitroff the current GM of the Falcons and make him president. Then let him decide who he wants as GM. Or simply hire Bill Polian as president and again let him decide who he wants as GM.
Dibs Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 First off I'd never make Russ Brandon CEO / president,,,him and his silly idea of bringing moneyball to football..... Yeah....God forbid we actually start using logic and clear thought to help run the organization.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 I posted this elsewhere, but I think it's worth repeating. With regard to Dalton, he's on an upward trajectory in just about every category from his rookie season to last year: http://www.pro-footb.../D/DaltAn00.htm . Note that his advanced QB rating last year was 103, with 100 being average. His regular rating was solid last year too: 87.4. It's also worth mentioning that he not only had 27 passing TDs last season, he had 4 rushing TDs too (31 overall, which is better than any Bills QB in team history save for Jim Kelly's 1991 season.) Plus he's had seven game winning drives in two seasons. I do realize that the Bengals defense is good (6th and 8th in yards allowed the last two seasons) and that AJ Green is a stud. Still the 2012 numbers suggest that Dalton produces. I disagree with about one out of every 200 or so of your posts. However it seems like you're building your argument atop statistics. How much have you actually watched Dalton play? What did you think of his performance against the Texans in the playoffs this year? I agree wholeheartedly with Ramius that Dalton is at best gonna be a Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer QB. IMO (and I'll gladly admit if he proves me wrong) that Dalton is incapable of putting a team on his shoulders as the truly great QBs can.
ganesh Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 IMO (and I'll gladly admit if he proves me wrong) that Dalton is incapable of putting a team on his shoulders as the truly great QBs can. We will find out soon. With Cap space, the Steelers may have to take another year off before being relevant. The Ravens are going to be cap strapped by that Flacco deal in the near term. The Browns....are just the browns (Though Norv has a good RB in his hand). The AFC North is prime for taking and Dalton and the Bengals just did that last season. Now can they repeat and go deeper in the playoffs ?
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 We will find out soon. With Cap space, the Steelers may have to take another year off before being relevant. The Ravens are going to be cap strapped by that Flacco deal in the near term. The Browns....are just the browns (Though Norv has a good RB in his hand). The AFC North is prime for taking and Dalton and the Bengals just did that last season. Now can they repeat and go deeper in the playoffs ? We will. But that Bengals-Texans game wasn't very promising. The Texans took away AJ Green and Dalton was incapable of getting the other skill players involved in the offense. At least that's how I remember the game. And every time I've seen him it seems like it's AJ Green or nothing. Kinda similar to Matthew Stafford and Megatron. One-trick ponies.
JohnC Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 It ultimately comes down to not getting a QB AND making a mediocre hire as his first Head Coach. I like Buddy as a person and supported his hiring. However at this moment, he is lucky to still be GM of the Bills. I betcha that more than 50% of the time, a GM who goes 16-32, and fails to find a quarterback and a Head Coach within 3 years is fired, all other considerations aside. If you put aside the qb issue and even the HCing issue Nix's body of work is still less than mediocre. His three year drafting record is miserable. I have no complaint with his three first round selections. Anyone drafting as high as the Bills regularly do should come out with quality players. The second round pick in Nix's first draft year was Troup. He was overdrafted. The second round selection of Aaron Williams is a disaster not because Williams will eventually be a good player or not but mostly because he had an opportunity to draft a high quality qb prospect. Last year he selected Cordy Glenn in the second round. I have no problem with that pick but I'm not convinced that he is a legitimate LT. He might be but more likely he is a better RT prospect or an inside blocker. In three years I can't recall one lower round pick that has developed into a good player. Good organizations periodically make a "hit" on a lower round developmental selection. So far that hasn't happened. When Mike Williams flamed out as an OT the tackle position was salvaged with a free agent draft pickup of Jason Peters. With Nix what you see is what you get. He is a very stolid GM who is unwilling to think outside of his own tight box. With the exception of making a small draft maneuver to move up to draft T.J. Graham, a player who probably would have been available at a lower round, he has never maneuvered up or down in the draft to maximize output when drafting. After three years how much has the roster been improved under his authority? I just don't see it. As bad as the record is it doesn't really show that his team is virtually incapable of beating winning teams, even at home. What is even worse than his embarrassing W/L record is that the team he has put on the field is a bore.
KOKBILLS Posted March 3, 2013 Author Posted March 3, 2013 If you put aside the qb issue and even the HCing issue Nix's body of work is still less than mediocre. His three year drafting record is miserable. I have no complaint with his three first round selections. Anyone drafting as high as the Bills regularly do should come out with quality players. The second round pick in Nix's first draft year was Troup. He was overdrafted. The second round selection of Aaron Williams is a disaster not because Williams will eventually be a good player or not but mostly because he had an opportunity to draft a high quality qb prospect. Last year he selected Cordy Glenn in the second round. I have no problem with that pick but I'm not convinced that he is a legitimate LT. He might be but more likely he is a better RT prospect or an inside blocker. In three years I can't recall one lower round pick that has developed into a good player. Good organizations periodically make a "hit" on a lower round developmental selection. So far that hasn't happened. When Mike Williams flamed out as an OT the tackle position was salvaged with a free agent draft pickup of Jason Peters. With Nix what you see is what you get. He is a very stolid GM who is unwilling to think outside of his own tight box. With the exception of making a small draft maneuver to move up to draft T.J. Graham, a player who probably would have been available at a lower round, he has never maneuvered up or down in the draft to maximize output when drafting. After three years how much has the roster been improved under his authority? I just don't see it. As bad as the record is it doesn't really show that his team is virtually incapable of beating winning teams, even at home. What is even worse than his embarrassing W/L record is that the team he has put on the field is a bore. Preaching to the choir here my friend...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 Preaching to the choir here my friend... I did say "all other considerations aside." But as to your contentions (which I generally agree with), IF Nix had hired a good head coach and found a viable young quarterback, many of these lesser sins would be forgiven, forgotten or overlooked.
JohnC Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 Preaching to the choir here my friend... There are people here who truly believe that Nix has done a good job and that this team is one the verge of making the great leap forward. What is even more incredible is that there are people who truly believe that the person who made the draft selections and the HCing hire is not responsible for his own handiwork. It really is a shame that so much time has been squandered with the hiring of Levy/Brandon and Nix. Instead of moving forward this franchise has been stuck in the mud because of its own ineptitude. The futile cycle of doing and undoing never seems to end. It's ridiculous.
KOKBILLS Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 There are people here who truly believe that Nix has done a good job and that this team is one the verge of making the great leap forward. What is even more incredible is that there are people who truly believe that the person who made the draft selections and the HCing hire is not responsible for his own handiwork. It really is a shame that so much time has been squandered with the hiring of Levy/Brandon and Nix. Instead of moving forward this franchise has been stuck in the mud because of its own ineptitude. The futile cycle of doing and undoing never seems to end. It's ridiculous. I would say the simplest way to judge NIx to this point would be to say that almost regardless of what happens from now till the beginning of Week #1 2013, The Bills are going to be one of the favorites for the #1 pick in 2014...Now...Maybe they land a few key UFA's and add some polish to this roster...But from everything I've read/heard about the Cap situation that will be tough...Maybe they get lucky and the QB they Draft turns out to be much better than projected...Could happen...And of course they could go on the field and shock everyone by actually winning...Forgive me if I'm not assuming that will happen just yet... My point is this...How could anyone, at this point right now, consider Nix anything other than an utter failure as a GM...Sure he can pull it out in the bottom of the ninth...But to this point...It does not look good...Not good at all...
mannc Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 With Nix what you see is what you get. He is a very stolid GM Please don't use fancy words like this. You are likely to confuse folks around here into thinking that you are a Buddy supporter.
thewildrabbit Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) There are people here who truly believe that Nix has done a good job and that this team is one the verge of making the great leap forward. What is even more incredible is that there are people who truly believe that the person who made the draft selections and the HCing hire is not responsible for his own handiwork. It really is a shame that so much time has been squandered with the hiring of Levy/Brandon and Nix. Instead of moving forward this franchise has been stuck in the mud because of its own ineptitude. The futile cycle of doing and undoing never seems to end. It's ridiculous. What fans fail to realize is... The org / franchise hasn't failed in the eyes of the owner. Time hasn't been wasted, and Its not stuck in the mud according to Ralph Wilson who makes a fine profit every year. There is a reason why a marketing / money guy in Russ Brandon was promoted to president / CEO and now controls the football side. 10 mill a year extra for that Toronto deal, whats not to like. This owner would rather have Russ Brandon running his team then someone like Bill Polian. A man who would want to spend money on a real GM, top players and coaches....AND WANT TO WIN!! Edited March 4, 2013 by FeartheLosing
dave mcbride Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) I disagree with about one out of every 200 or so of your posts. However it seems like you're building your argument atop statistics. How much have you actually watched Dalton play? What did you think of his performance against the Texans in the playoffs this year? I agree wholeheartedly with Ramius that Dalton is at best gonna be a Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer QB. IMO (and I'll gladly admit if he proves me wrong) that Dalton is incapable of putting a team on his shoulders as the truly great QBs can. Strangely enough, I have watched Dalton, and my eyes have told me what yours have told you - he doesn't look that good. But there's the complicating factor of his actual production. It's there, especially late in games. His game against the Bills in his rookie season encapsulates him. He looked like crap for much of the first half, but then he started to make plays. Before you knew it, he converted a crucial 3rd and 3 on a qb run that led to a game winning FG. This summary says it all: http://sportsillustr...444_recap.html. I don't think he's a savior by any means, and it is the case that the Bengals offense is hardly what I'd call explosive. But I have to confess that I think he has a chance to be a pretty good QB. Guys who lead teams to winning seasons two years running build confidence in themselves, and if they improve their accuracy and ypa, that's a good sign for the future. The Bills haven't had "pretty good" in a long time. Edited March 4, 2013 by dave mcbride
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 Fair enough Dave. That Bills-Bengals game also had a few other plays which were pivotal but we won't have to wait long to get a more definitive view on Dalton. On a tangent, as I've rhetorically asked a few times now, I wonder how many fans in Cincy wish the Bengals had taken Kaepernick?
dave mcbride Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Fair enough Dave. That Bills-Bengals game also had a few other plays which were pivotal but we won't have to wait long to get a more definitive view on Dalton. On a tangent, as I've rhetorically asked a few times now, I wonder how many fans in Cincy wish the Bengals had taken Kaepernick? Kaepernick is definitely better than Dalton. No argument there.
birdog1960 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 no. there is no redemption for this gm. nix buddy. the reason he still has a job is the reason the bills continue to lose.
KOKBILLS Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 On a tangent, as I've rhetorically asked a few times now, I wonder how many fans in Cincy wish the Bengals had taken Kaepernick? I guess that shows how piss poor The Bills QB situation has been because I never thought of it that way before now... I would say the answer to your question conservatively is a whole heck of a lot...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I guess that shows how piss poor The Bills QB situation has been because I never thought of it that way before now... I would say the answer to your question conservatively is a whole heck of a lot... It's an interesting thing because Kaep didn't start his first NFL game till late November so it was more or less a moot point until about 3 months ago.
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