TPS Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Given how often the topic gets discussed, I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet. A long look at the drivers of healthcare costs. He throws bones out for the left and right. http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Given how often the topic gets discussed, I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet. A long look at the drivers of healthcare costs. He throws bones out for the left and right. http://healthland.ti...are-killing-us/ Saw this guy on some talk show talking about this article. Haven't read but meant to. Will read later this weekend. Good post thanks for reminding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Its a great article, I would suggest everybody read it first word to last. There is really nothing untrue in the article, but I found myself knodding with agreement as what I see everyday coincides with what is in the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 if god wanted poor people to be healthy theyd have been born into rich families if god wanted poor people to be healthy theyd have been born into rich families Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 i actually linked it in the obamacare irony thread but doubt anyone i was arguing with looked at it. they had brill on bps the other night...very impressive. the ONLY way we get costs under control is through gov't intervention. this is the natural history of for profit medicine -escalating, unaffordable costs for care. there is virtually nothing in that article that i would argue with. in related news, http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Raid-not-a-first-for-Scooter-Store-4303667.php. don't know how these shysters have existed so long but better late than never. hopefully this is the start of a major crackdown on fraud and abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 i actually linked it in the obamacare irony thread but doubt anyone i was arguing with looked at it. they had brill on bps the other night...very impressive. the ONLY way we get costs under control is through gov't intervention. this is the natural history of for profit medicine -escalating, unaffordable costs for care. there is virtually nothing in that article that i would argue with. in related news, http://www.mysananto...ore-4303667.php. don't know how these shysters have existed so long but better late than never. hopefully this is the start of a major crackdown on fraud and abuse. Right, and the policy that says 'we will give you a free scooter', which emanates from the policy that says 'paying for a scooter is cheaper than paying for any form of nursing care', which emanates from the policy that says 'we will pay for whatever health care you want', that emanates from what exactly? Oh, that's right, politicized handouts for votes. So what exactly is the root cause of this "waste"? I love how you clowns support buying eveybody everything, and then, when you see the result, or when somebody calls you on it, or when somebody inevitably finds a way to rip you off, because your plan isn't thought out at all, rather, it's based on "being a more moral person" you holler "waste, fraud and abuse"! Who created the conditions for this? Who are the people constantly demanding that we spend more money, as fast as possible, without thinking, because "there's no time, Mrs. Jones needs her scooter yesterday, and everybody else in the country's needs aren't important...because I have to be a more moral person!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Right, and the policy that says 'we will give you a free scooter', which emanates from the policy that says 'paying for a scooter is cheaper than paying for any form of nursing care', which emanates from the policy that says 'we will pay for whatever health care you want', that emanates from what exactly? Oh, that's right, politicized handouts for votes. So what exactly is the root cause of this "waste"? I love how you clowns support buying eveybody everything, and then, when you see the result, or when somebody calls you on it, or when somebody inevitably finds a way to rip you off, because your plan isn't thought out at all, rather, it's based on "being a more moral person" you holler "waste, fraud and abuse"! Who created the conditions for this? Who are the people constantly demanding that we spend more money, as fast as possible, without thinking, because "there's no time, Mrs. Jones needs her scooter yesterday, and everybody else in the country's needs aren't important...because I have to be a more moral person!"? the laws against the kind of crap the scooter store has done for years are in place. they haven't been properly used. who do i blame? i'd bet that the folks at the scooter store have some friends in high places.... does that make the entire medicare system a failure? do i have patients with legitimate needs for a scooter? have i complained to medicare in the past about the scooter store? no. yes. yes. so what's the answer? take away the incentive... lower profit margins for mobility devices or open the business to bids. i'm sure an actuary could estimate approximately how many scooters should be truly needed per 1000 medicare recipients. pay an amount proportional to that number of patient at reasonable profit. have certified examiners determine need. and while they're at it, open bidding for prescription drugs for a national formulary. Edited March 1, 2013 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 the laws against the kind of crap the scooter store has done for years are in place. they haven't been properly used. who do i blame? i'd bet that the folks at the scooter store have some friends in high places.... does that make the entire medicare system a failure? do i have patients with legitimate needs for a scooter? have i complained to medicare in the past about the scooter store? no. yes. yes. Somewhat of an aside here birdog...but as a fellow MD I have to say....I HATE the scooter store and those of their ilk. If I have one more patient bring me those forms I'll puke. I understand that forms/documentation are part of our gig but they need to quit running the commercials telling all the patients how "The scooter store will take care of everything for you." If 'sending me the forms' is taking care of everything.... then the scooter store is spot on in their advertisements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Somewhat of an aside here birdog...but as a fellow MD I have to say....I HATE the scooter store and those of their ilk. If I have one more patient bring me those forms I'll puke. I understand that forms/documentation are part of our gig but they need to quit running the commercials telling all the patients how "The scooter store will take care of everything for you." If 'sending me the forms' is taking care of everything.... then the scooter store is spot on in their advertisements. George Costanza thanks you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Somewhat of an aside here birdog...but as a fellow MD I have to say....I HATE the scooter store and those of their ilk. If I have one more patient bring me those forms I'll puke. I understand that forms/documentation are part of our gig but they need to quit running the commercials telling all the patients how "The scooter store will take care of everything for you." If 'sending me the forms' is taking care of everything.... then the scooter store is spot on in their advertisements. me too, brother. as i said earlier, i hope this is a sign of things to come. we have a med student in the office right now. a drug rep was selling me on one of the new osteoporosis drugs that costs thousands a year. she was stupid enough to ask me "but don't you want the best for your patients?". i pointed to him and said "yes, but i also want him to be able to make a living after he finishes his indentured servitude." i just think we need to attempt to balance things for everyone in the system. seems to me it's way out of kilter right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 me too, brother. as i said earlier, i hope this is a sign of things to come. we have a med student in the office right now. a drug rep was selling me on one of the new osteoporosis drugs that costs thousands a year. she was stupid enough to ask me "but don't you want the best for your patients?". i pointed to him and said "yes, but i also want him to be able to make a living after he finishes his indentured servitude." i just think we need to attempt to balance things for everyone in the system. seems to me it's way out of kilter right now. And you think government intervention is the way to get costs under control? LMMFAO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 the laws against the kind of crap the scooter store has done for years are in place. they haven't been properly used. You can replace "scooter store" with virtually any regulated government entity, and amply describe the past 20 years. who do i blame? i'd bet that the folks at the scooter store have some friends in high places.... More likely just a lack of focus. Analogous to how Elizabeth Warren demands focus on legal proceedings against large banks because it looks good, while completely ignoring the local level where financial fraud actually takes place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfatbillsfan Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 You can replace "scooter store" with virtually any regulated government entity, and amply describe the past 20 years. More likely just a lack of focus. Analogous to how Elizabeth Warren demands focus on legal proceedings against large banks because it looks good, while completely ignoring the local level where financial fraud actually takes place. So because things are not regulated correctly we should just get rid of the regulations? No system works perfectly but the idea that no government intervention in the health care industry in needed is crazy. If the system is a "for profit" system, prices are going to rise. Can you give us an example of how financial fraud is taking place at the local level? I'm not saying it isn't happening. I know it is. I just want to know what you're driving at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 So because things are not regulated correctly we should just get rid of the regulations? No system works perfectly but the idea that no government intervention in the health care industry in needed is crazy. If the system is a "for profit" system, prices are going to rise. Where the !@#$ did I say "get rid of regulations?" Where did I ever say that? You're an idiot. Can you give us an example of how financial fraud is taking place at the local level? I'm not saying it isn't happening. I know it is. I just want to know what you're driving at. I'll give you an example when you stop being an idiot. Shut the !@#$ up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 So because things are not regulated correctly we should just get rid of the regulations? No system works perfectly but the idea that no government intervention in the health care industry in needed is crazy. If the system is a "for profit" system, prices are going to rise. Can you give us an example of how financial fraud is taking place at the local level? I'm not saying it isn't happening. I know it is. I just want to know what you're driving at. I believe he's referring to the fraud by the mortgage brokers and title companies, which are beneath the outrage levels of the chief protector of the borrowing class. Its a lit easier to scream at Bank of America than to chase thousands of guys who commit $100K frauds. I'll give you an example when you stop being an idiot. Shut the !@#$ up. And there's that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfatbillsfan Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Where the !@#$ did I say "get rid of regulations?" Where did I ever say that? You're an idiot. I'll give you an example when you stop being an idiot. Shut the !@#$ up. Usually the argument following the "poor regulations" argument is "we should get rid of regulations so the system can function better". Yeah, you didn't come right out and say it but we know where it's going. As to your example line... I'll just take that as you can't. I believe he's referring to the fraud by the mortgage brokers and title companies, which are beneath the outrage levels of the chief protector of the borrowing class. Its a lit easier to scream at Bank of America than to chase thousands of guys who commit $100K frauds. I'm sure BoA knew, or at least had a pretty good idea that this was/is going on. I disagree with Warren on going after the banks for the sole purpose of going after the banks. And yes I think we should be focusing as well on the mortgage brokers. But the banks are not blameless. They knew/know something illegal is going on and choose to look the other way when they profit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 (edited) And you think government intervention is the way to get costs under control? LMMFAO! keep laughing...the scooter store is big bucks but pales in comparison to big pharma. you know, the ones that advertise direct to consumers (patients) that they need the newest brand name drug when a generic, that they refuse to even attempt to prove superiority to, is available at a fraction of the cost. we're the only nation to allow such advertising that i'm aware of. and to what end? we have a bastardized system with public and private interests negotiating an uneasy peace. and guess who is losing? have any of you even read the Brill piece yet? comments? Edited March 2, 2013 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Usually the argument following the "poor regulations" argument is "we should get rid of regulations so the system can function better". Yeah, you didn't come right out and say it but we know where it's going. No you didn't. You assumed. And assumed stupidly, because if you had even a shadow of a clue you'd know I've said multiple times before that I'm not against regulation, I'm against STUPID COUNTERPRODUCTIVE REGULATION that isn't and can't be enforced. And GG's right...because he knows that both my wife and myself have worked in the industry, and I can't tell you how much fraud I've seen and she still sees at the small/independent business level. At least once a week, she sees a case of blatant fraud and violations of regulations (my favorite is still the all-too-common "We don't give the borrower the loan terms until after they sit down at the table, so they can't back out." HUD requires the paperwork be delivered 72 hours in advance of closing, by the way...that never happens, and HUD never does anything about it, going back more than ten years.) And the people who do that NEVER get investigated for it when she reports them (which she and I have both done - there's one company alone that she and I together have reported seven different times to three states and the federal government for multiple counts of insurance fraud, mortgage fraud, banking fraud, and tax fraud - ALL regulatory agencies refused to investigate, as it wasn't worth their time.) So the bottom line is, again: you're a !@#$ing tool. I have direct knowledge, you have a vacuum between your ears. It's not Wells Fargo that screws people, it's the brokers, lawyers, and agents at the local level that never even get noticed. And by the way...that HUD regulation that's never enforced? Rather than enforce it, they passed RESPA and changed the forms "to make them easier to read". As it turns out, the new form is five times longer, more confusing because it provides less detail (allowing parties to more easily hide additional fees), RESPA actually violates Treasury's lending regulations, meaning people are even more likely to get screwed over now and the regulations to protect them are too inconsistent to be enforced. So the next time you get confused about the difference between "advocating against all regulation" and "advocating against completely ****ty regulation," (which I expect will be in about ten minutes), you might want to keep that in mind. keep laughing...the scooter store is big bucks but pales in comparison to big pharma. you know, the ones that advertise direct to consumers (patients) that they need the newest brand name drug when a generic, that they refuse to even attempt to prove superiority to, is available at a fraction of the cost. we're the only nation to allow such advertising that i'm aware of. and to what end? we have a bastardized system with public and private interests negotiating an uneasy peace. and guess who is losing? have any of you even read the Brill piece yet? comments? Banning the advertising of drugs directly to consumers would probably make the single greatest contribution to reforming health care than anything other decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 keep laughing...the scooter store is big bucks but pales in comparison to big pharma. you know, the ones that advertise direct to consumers (patients) that they need the newest brand name drug when a generic, that they refuse to even attempt to prove superiority to, is available at a fraction of the cost. we're the only nation to allow such advertising that i'm aware of. and to what end? we have a bastardized system with public and private interests negotiating an uneasy peace. and guess who is losing? The Scooter Store will pay a fine that is a fraction of what they've bilked the public out of, and have the last laugh. And what did Obamacare do to Big Pharma? have any of you even read the Brill piece yet? comments? Yep, I read it. The article says that $469/month is 20% of the couples' combined income. Doing the math, that's an annual salary of $28140. They would have qualified for Medicaid. Or they could have spent $800/month and gotten real insurance instead of gambling. Or they could have gone somewhere that took their bargain insurance, rather than choosing MD Anderson some 1,200 miles away. Still another option was to have one of them continue to work at his/her previous job and continue to get health insurance while the other started the company. But yes, health care is expensive. Obamacare does NOTHING to remedy this. And the only government intervention that will is dictating that people live a certain way. Anything else is trying to put out a grease fire with water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 (edited) \ Banning the advertising of drugs directly to consumers would probably make the single greatest contribution to reforming health care than anything other decision. this is a retarded comment...that isn't to say direct advertising is not something but this comment...wow Edited March 2, 2013 by SameOldBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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