ny33 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I know right now almost all threads on here are about (or turn into) discussions about this years free agency and drafts. But I could not help but notice that we also have some important players that will be free agents in 2014. Carrington Chandler Dareus Moats ( I still believe he can be great ) Wood There are more, but none that at this point in time who could be considered important. So the question is......who do you think we will extend? Lets talk about next year! Just for a change. Dareus is a free agent in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hope you're right. I had my doubts when he was coming out and would have taken AJ Green or Patrick Peterson @ 3 instead. Thus far his play has been inconclusive. Would like nothing more than Dareus becoming dominant like a Wilfork or NGata in 2013 In regards to Dareus. One has to wonder his level of commitment last year. He came from a extremely successful college program. He was used to being on a winning program. He is a winner! Then he's picked 3rd by the Bills (one pick I do not hold against Nix).Dareus is immediately thrown into the painful coaching combo of Gailey/Edwards/Stache. Then, last season he seems to come into camp somewhat fat and out of shape. Stays that way, and loses his brother. Combine that with possibly a sense of hopelessness, due to inept coaching, and being really young. He obviously regressed. Marrone and his THIRD DC (in 3 years) need to re-instill some faith and give the kid some hope, that the team is turning a corner. He may re-commit and dominate in the NFL. If not he will wait until his rookie contract is over and do it somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDogg20 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Big Marcell is only 23. Had a rough year in general last year. He'll be a stud once this defense starts clicking. He's already shown flashes of excellence, it's just a matter of being consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Big Marcell is only 23. Had a rough year in general last year. He'll be a stud once this defense starts clicking. He's already shown flashes of excellence, it's just a matter of being consistent. Thank you. People continually overlook the fact that Marcel was a 20 year old rookie. By comparison, Vince Wilfork was a 23 year old rookie. I think most people who've played sports would agree that the difference between 23 and 20 is pretty substantial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Thank you. People continually overlook the fact that Marcel was a 20 year old rookie. By comparison, Vince Wilfork was a 23 year old rookie. I think most people who've played sports would agree that the difference between 23 and 20 is pretty substantial. The problem @3 overall you expect a guy to be ready to go, like von Miller drafted one slot ahead. Not looking for a project with question marks after 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 The problem @3 overall you expect a guy to be ready to go, like von Miller drafted one slot ahead. Not looking for a project with question marks after 2 seasons. There's no question that he's underachieved his draft status so far. I'm just reminding people that it's too early to be calling him a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) The problem @3 overall you expect a guy to be ready to go.... That's an unrealistic expectation. DT picked #1 - #5 from 2000 - 2012: 2011(3): Marcell Dareus....5.5 sacks/year(11 sacks total)....82 tackles in 2 years 2010(2): Ndamukong Suh....pro-bowler rookie 2010(3): Gerald McCoy....3 sacks rookie year...on pace for 3 sacks 2nd year(played 6 games)....5 sacks & pro bowl 3rd year....68 tackles in 3 years 2008(5): Glenn Dorsey....2 sacks & 100 tackles in first 2 years 2003(4): Dewayne Robertson....4.5 sacks in 1st 2 years....gone by 2009. 2001(3): Gerard Warren....7 sacks & 101 tackles in first 2 years(no pro bowl career). Usually DTs take 3 years to develop. There's no question that he's underachieved his draft status so far. See above. Edited March 1, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 That's an unrealistic expectation. DT picked #1 - #5 from 2000 - 2012: 2011(3): Marcell Dareus....5.5 sacks/year(11 sacks total)....82 tackles in 2 years 2010(2): Ndamukong Suh....pro-bowler rookie 2010(3): Gerald McCoy....3 sacks rookie year...on pace for 3 sacks 2nd year(played 6 games)....5 sacks & pro bowl 3rd year....68 tackles in 3 years 2008(5): Glenn Dorsey....2 sacks & 100 tackles in first 2 years 2003(4): Dewayne Robertson....4.5 sacks in 1st 2 years....gone by 2009. 2001(3): Gerard Warren....7 sacks & 101 tackles in first 2 years(no pro bowl career). Usually DTs take 3 years to develop. See above. So you're looking at other guys that have under performed to make his underperformance look good? Lol OK that's the kind of warped justification Fitz supporters are always tossing out. And those stats don't tell the tale at all. He's had more sacks than wilfork or ngata, you're out of mind if you think that means he's playing at or better than their level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 So you're looking at other guys that have under performed to make his underperformance look good? Lol OK that's the kind of warped justification Fitz supporters are always tossing out. And those stats don't tell the tale at all. He's had more sacks than wilfork or ngata, you're out of mind if you think that means he's playing at or better than their level. No..... You said... "The problem @3 overall you expect a guy to be ready to go...." You stated an expectation that a #3 overall pick is expected to perform straight away. I replied that the expectation you had is unrealistic. I then backed up my statement by showing all of the DTs that have been drafted between the #1 & #5 slots. There was only one(picked #2) out of the six players selected who showed that he was "ready to go" when he hit the NFL. When faced with facts, it is wiser to readjust ones assumptions rather than attempting to belittle & insult the person presenting those facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) No..... You said... "The problem @3 overall you expect a guy to be ready to go...." You stated an expectation that a #3 overall pick is expected to perform straight away. I replied that the expectation you had is unrealistic. I then backed up my statement by showing all of the DTs that have been drafted between the #1 & #5 slots. There was only one(picked #2) out of the six players selected who showed that he was "ready to go" when he hit the NFL. When faced with facts, it is wiser to readjust ones assumptions rather than attempting to belittle & insult the person presenting those facts. its because your facts are crap Bud, as I pointed out. if they werent then youre saying hes performed better than Ngata and Wilfork the last 2 years. And your "analysis" is flawed further by guys on your list never having graduated to "worth the pick" the level. If all those guys started out with similar stats, and then became big time players, at least youd have a starting point. A DT doesn't prove his worth by having a few more sacks than the next guy. Stats like that that any boob can pull up on ESPN are really of little use to analyze the position. DT is supposed to be the setup guy to occupy a lot of blockers and offense attention, force plays away from the middle, so other guys around them can make plays that show up on common stats. A far better assessment of what Dareus has done would be looking at a service that considers all the factors that go into quality DT play ... I think someone posted one a while ago from an Irish company that showed Fitz was like 35th overall (or something like that). Be interested how Dareus ranked. Without that I used my own 2 eyes, and from seeing a lot of Wilfork in his 1st and 2nd years, and some of Ngata, its obvious he hasnt shown anywhere near their promise. Even most of the Dareus supporters on this board concede he's underperformed. Edited March 1, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Carrington may be the most important especially if they switch back to a 3-4. He is the only player on the roster that can play DE opposite Dareus. I still don't believe KW can be a NT in a 3-4. I am not sold on Mario at OLB in a 3-4 either. Carrington and Troupe hopefully make a great deal of impact at DT in a 4-3. I would rather stay in the 4-3 and add a couple LB's than try to play Darues at DE and KW at NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) its because your facts are crap Bud, as I pointed out. if they werent then youre saying hes performed better than Ngata and Wilfork the last 2 years. And your "analysis" is flawed further by guys on your list never having graduated to "worth the pick" the level. If all those guys started out with similar stats, and then became big time players, at least youd have a starting point......blah, blah, blah. Again...NO!!!! I am not saying anything of the sort. I am saying that your expectation that the #3 pick should be ready to start straight away is unrealistic. What you are saying is that because there are players like Ngata & Wilfork who hit the league and play at a high level straight away......we should expect all players to perform at the same level upon entering the league.....regardless of how unusual it is to happen. Your argument is akin to saying that Brady was a 6th round pick.....therefore we should expect all sixth round picks to perform at his level. Surely one would need something to occur at least 50% of the time for one to formulate a reasonable/rational expectation for it to occur generally? (Though personally I wouldn't "expect" something to happen unless it occurs at least 80% of the time). Ngata was the 12th pick....Wilfork a 21st. Do I really need to list every DT selected down to the 12th/21st pick......highlight the instant successes.....calculate what percent were instant successes......to prove to you that an expectation that ones 1st round DT draft pick should be as good as Ngata upon entering the league is total bollocks? Edited March 1, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Again...NO!!!! I am not saying anything of the sort. Doesn't matter what you say. Joe this six is just hating on Dareus and logic and reason will not rule the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Doesn't matter what you say. Joe this six is just hating on Dareus and logic and reason will not rule the day. The sad thing is that I haven't even given an actual opinion on Darius.....just an opinion on Joe's ill-conceived expectations of drafted players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Doesn't matter what you say. Joe this six is just hating on Dareus and logic and reason will not rule the day. Oh geez, first dibs "facts" argument blows up, now someone's a "hater" for questioning dareus. Then a lot of his supporters who concede he's underpeformed are haters too LOL. Fact is I don't hate him at all. Seems like a good guy to me. I was one of the few who didn't get on his case for saying theres more to life than football which is just a game. Hes right! But I separate personality from performance when judging them as a player. Just seems like there are 2 guys on this team that have a halo and you can't question without being attacked and labeled a "hater": fitz on offense, dareus on defense. Edited March 1, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Oh geez, first dibs "facts" argument blows up, now someone's a "hater" for questioning dareus. Then a lot of his supporters who concede he's underpeformed are haters too LOL. Fact is I don't hate him at all. Seems like a good guy to me. I was one of the few who didn't get on his case for saying theres more to life than football which is just a game. Hes right! But I separate personality from performance when judging them as a player. Just seems like there are 2 guys on this team that have a halo and you can't question without being attacked and labeled a "hater": fitz on offense, dareus on defense. "The problem @3 overall you expect a guy to be ready to go...." This was the only thing that I was discussing. That expectation you voiced is simply illogical. We all want our #3 pick to be ready to go.....but only a small percent of them actually are ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillsgrl Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Again...NO!!!! I am not saying anything of the sort. I am saying that your expectation that the #3 pick should be ready to start straight away is unrealistic. What you are saying is that because there are players like Ngata & Wilfork who hit the league and play at a high level straight away......we should expect all players to perform at the same level upon entering the league.....regardless of how unusual it is to happen. Your argument is akin to saying that Brady was a 6th round pick.....therefore we should expect all sixth round picks to perform at his level. Surely one would need something to occur at least 50% of the time for one to formulate a reasonable/rational expectation for it to occur generally? (Though personally I wouldn't "expect" something to happen unless it occurs at least 80% of the time). Ngata was the 12th pick....Wilfork a 21st. Do I really need to list every DT selected down to the 12th/21st pick......highlight the instant successes.....calculate what percent were instant successes......to prove to you that an expectation that ones 1st round DT draft pick should be as good as Ngata upon entering the league is total bollocks? If you do happen to do all of that to prove it.......could you add in what age they were at the time they did become sucessful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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