Buftex Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) I know some of you who puruse this board are managers, or have been managers. I am in a little bit of a 'sticky wickett'...in a previous life, I was an office manager in an insurance office at a universlty. I left that job to take a job out in the "real world" for about a year and a half...that company folded, so I ended up back at the university, in a completely different, non-management job. This past December, a girl who used to work for me asked if she could use me for a job reference. I had always considered her a friend, and had no reservations giving her my blessing. She was trying to get a job back at the university. Fast forward three months, and I have come to find out that the girl has applied for a job in the very same area that I work now. She didn't tell me this, I just saw her name on a list of three folks being interviewed for an opening we have. My dilema: this girl is really smart, and can be great to work with..but I have also seen a much darker side to her, and the way she works with others. She is definitely somebody who works better on her own...she had frequent conflicts with co-workers in our past job (not always her fault, granted, but she also knows how to "push buttons")....I am really conflicted, because while I want to help her get a job, I really don't want to work with her at my job again. Does this make me a ****ty person? I am mindful too, if I give her a good reference, she gets hired, and has the same issues again, it makes me look bad. I have given out plenty of references over the years, without hesitation...but I have my reservations about this one. I have no doubt that she could handle the work part of the job she is applying for, but knowing how my current place works, I think she would be a really bad match. This job relies heavily on working with others, and people aren't always super courteous, so you have to have a thick skin...not sure if she fills that part of it. I have a feeling they will be asking me for a reference in the next day or two...what would you do? How frank would you be? The university trains their managers well, in getting negative info, if it exists, without crossing any lines. Sorry for the long post...brevity is never my strength... Edited February 28, 2013 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Sorry for the long post...brevity is never my strength... If she's using you as a personal reference then you have options in what you can say, that's up to you. If you are a professional reference (previous employer) all you should provide is when she started working at the University and when she left. Since the University already knows this info they shouldn't come to you at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 If she's using you as a personal reference then you have options in what you can say, that's up to you. This is a personal reference. Pics? She is actually very attractive..looks a bit like Zooey Daschenell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Buftex - I'd have a face to face with her and tell her it might be uncomfortable for both her and you if the employer considers your Letter of Recommendation as part of the hiring process. If she was applying for a job elsewhere they can use your letter and it wouldn't have any effect on your ability to work. But if she is applying for a job at your office - you don't want her success or potential failure to hing on your opinion of her (even though you are confident in her ability to handle the job). Basically, bull **** the hell out of her and tell her "it's not you...it's me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 This is a personal reference. I had always considered her a friend, and had no reservations giving her my blessing If your blessing implied that you would give her a good recommendation (I'm sure that was her impression) then you have a moral dilemma on your hands. If I were in your shoes I would tell HR that you told the friend you would offer a personal recommendation, but under the circumstances, you don't feel like it would be appropriate (and it isn't). Tell this to her as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I've seen this happen a few times at my office, although thankfully the one person I hired that was a personal reference seems to be OK. You will be looked at (for better or for worse) as someone who recommended her if you're listed as a reference, they know you, and they get hired. It will also be obvious that you two are friends to your coworkers when she gets hired - and you two will be connected, whether or not you want to be. In my opinion, your best bet is to be honest with her. Let her know that while you want to try to help her get an awesome job at the University, you're worried about her particular fit in this department. Explain that you think the work environment might not be the best for her and lead to conflicts that would look bad on her, whether or not it's her fault. Give a couple examples from the previous role of where the work environment is similar. Also explain to her that you'll tell them all the awesome parts of her, but that, due to your position as an "insider" in this org, you also have to be honest about your experiences in a similar work environment in the past. If she's a good friend, or a professional worth hiring, she'll understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 If your blessing implied that you would give her a good recommendation (I'm sure that was her impression) then you have a moral dilemma on your hands. If I were in your shoes I would tell HR that you told the friend you would offer a personal recommendation, but under the circumstances, you don't feel like it would be appropriate (and it isn't). Tell this to her as well. Yes... a moral dilema. I have the advantage (or disadvantage), of knowing the job she did for me, and what will be required of her at the job she is applying for. If she had told me she was applying for this job (she didn't give me a "heads up") I would have been up-front with her that I didn't think it was a great job for her...but she is being interviewed at 2pm today...and the thing that makes it worse, it is more a personality thing than an ability thing. When I say we are "frineds" I don't mean that I hang out with her socially (though we do have a few mutual friends), but at our previous job together I probably had more in common with her than anyone else..you know, music taste, books, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I interview and hire people all the time. If she has caused issues in the past go to the person that is responsible for offering her the postition and tell them not to. Why on earth would you want someone who could be disruptive working at the same place. Grow some ball man!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 I've seen this happen a few times at my office, although thankfully the one person I hired that was a personal reference seems to be OK. You will be looked at (for better or for worse) as someone who recommended her if you're listed as a reference, they know you, and they get hired. It will also be obvious that you two are friends to your coworkers when she gets hired - and you two will be connected, whether or not you want to be. In my opinion, your best bet is to be honest with her. Let her know that while you want to try to help her get an awesome job at the University, you're worried about her particular fit in this department. Explain that you think the work environment might not be the best for her and lead to conflicts that would look bad on her, whether or not it's her fault. Give a couple examples from the previous role of where the work environment is similar. Also explain to her that you'll tell them all the awesome parts of her, but that, due to your position as an "insider" in this org, you also have to be honest about your experiences in a similar work environment in the past. If she's a good friend, or a professional worth hiring, she'll understand. All good advice....I just wish I had a little more time to deal with this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 What Beerball said.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Yes... a moral dilema. I have the advantage (or disadvantage), of knowing the job she did for me, and what will be required of her at the job she is applying for. If she had told me she was applying for this job (she didn't give me a "heads up") I would have been up-front with her that I didn't think it was a great job for her...but she is being interviewed at 2pm today...and the thing that makes it worse, it is more a personality thing than an ability thing. When I say we are "frineds" I don't mean that I hang out with her socially (though we do have a few mutual friends), but at our previous job together I probably had more in common with her than anyone else..you know, music taste, books, etc... if its your department, are you also close with the decision maker? id imagine they would likely have a casual sidebar with you if thats the case. you can at that point say "i think shes a great and talented worker, but she may rock the boat with her personality" and leave it up to them to make of it what they will. just leave things as is with her and continue to sing her praises in future situations she looks at. Edited February 28, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) I interview and hire people all the time. If she has caused issues in the past go to the person that is responsible for offering her the postition and tell them not to. Why on earth would you want someone who could be disruptive working at the same place. Grow some ball man!! Chef...in all seriousness (your smiley throws me)...are you being serious? I know we butt heads from time to time, but I respect your opinion, especially on matters like this....I know you have experience. Have you ever been in the position of calling to check someones' personal refereces? I have, dozens of times, and on a few occasions, the person listed as a personal reference has given me negative info. I can say, at least in the situations I dealt with, it did play a factor in them not getting a job. What you are saying is my first instinct...but, it is already at the point where this person is one of three being interviewed. Edited February 28, 2013 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 what Chef Jim said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 if its your department, are you also close with the decision maker? id imagine they would likely have a casual sidebar with you if thats the case. you can at that point say "i think shes a great and talented worker, but she may rock the boat with her personality" and leave it up to them to make of it what they will. just leave things as is with her and continue to sing her praises in future situations she looks at. I am not close to the decision maker in this instance. And, being as tight on policies and procedures as a University can be, "sidebar conversations" are strictly prohibited. God, I hate this day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Don't put any criticisms in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Chef...in all seriousness (your smiley throws me)...are you being serious? I know we butt heads from time to time, but I respect your opinion, especially on matters like this....I know you have experience. Have you ever been in the position of calling to check someones' personal refereces? I have, dozens of times, and on a few occasions, the person listed as a personal reference has given me negative info. I can say, at least in the situations I dealt with, it did play a factor in them not getting a job. What you are saying is my first instinct...but, it is already at the point where this person is one of three being interviewed. I'm being very serious. Why would you, as a manager, allow someone who you've had first hand knowledge of as being a problem to be employed by the University where you work? I call references but take most of what they say with a grain of salt. I go with my gut feeling and you don't have a gut feeling you have experience. Now not sure what you mean that sidebar conversations are prohibited I think if you pull the person aside and tell them what you know about his person they will be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 i write references for colleagues and students frequently. it's understood in my professional community that "reference inflation" is the norm. from what you've described i would use the word "adequate" a few times in my reference. that will likely have the desired effect and you can feel comfortable about your honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 You gave her a reference in December and tomorrow is March, and they're just getting off their ass to interview her now? Simply tell the interviewer the circumstance. If he/she think's it's important, it's up to them to act or not. You've done your best in either case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 You gave her a reference in December and tomorrow is March, and they're just getting off their ass to interview her now? Simply tell the interviewer the circumstance. If he/she think's it's important, it's up to them to act or not. You've done your best in either case. No, she has applied for a numerous jobs at the University...she is just getting an intreview for this one. I'm being very serious. Why would you, as a manager, allow someone who you've had first hand knowledge of as being a problem to be employed by the University where you work? I call references but take most of what they say with a grain of salt. I go with my gut feeling and you don't have a gut feeling you have experience. Now not sure what you mean that sidebar conversations are prohibited I think if you pull the person aside and tell them what you know about his person they will be grateful. Yes, you are right. Absolutely... thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts