Dion Jordan - DE - Oregon

[JohnC]

There irony (tragedy?) here is that the Bills might feel compelled to draft a QB in one of the worst draft classes at the position in quite some time and for no small part because they felt they could bide their time and wait for the perfect QB to fall to them because they had a good enough fill-in at the position already. Now the question is whether there is a complete cave in on Buddy's team building approach and the Bills throw a top pick at a QB to trot out someone in a uniform with a different name on his back on game day...

 

(For instance, when people are talking about Nassib and Manuel maybe being another Fitzpatrick at the NFL level, what would they really be improving exactly?)

 

You give a well thought out response but I have a different take on the qb issue. There is no doubt that there is no Luck or RGIII type prospect in this draft. Even befuddled Buddy could make that type of selection when presented to him. But waiting for that scenario to materialize is like only willing to date a SI swimsuit model. You are waiting for the silent phone to ring. Odds are that it is not going to happen.

 

I don't accept the notion that there aren't high quality prospects in this year's draft. Who would have thought that Russell Wilson or Kaepernick would at least up to now turn out to be sterling prospects? How high in the first round were Aaron Rogers or Flacco taken? Neither of these qbs were considered high first round prospects. Yet Rogers is arguably the best qb in the game and Flacco is without a doubt an upper tier qb. My point is there are good qbs in most drafts. Good organizations find them, mediocre organizatons don't and dreadful organizations strike out for a generation or more.

 

At this point my view (subject to change) is that Geno Smith, Barkley and Tyler Wilson are legitimate franchise qb candidates. It stands to reason that your chances of success increase by taking your highest rated prospect. The worst thing you can do is do what Nix has done. He waited for the "ideal" prospect and he ended up with nothing. Where has it gotten us?

 

If a prospect doesn't work out then so be it. Then go back to the drawing board and get on with your search. The Ravens drafted Kyle Boller with a high first round pick. He didn't work out. They then made a maneuver in the draft to get back into the first round to draft Flacco. Not only are they the champs but also for the past five years or so have been one of the most consistently good teams in the league. Compare Baltimore's GM, Newsome, to the Bills timid GM, Nix. Which approach would you prefer taking: The one used by the consistently good franchise or the one used by the consistently bad franchise?

Edited February 26, 2013 by JohnC

[Maury Ballstein]

Derrick Thomas......dude's gonna put on 15-20 pounds before the season starts.

[peterpan]

He looks more like an Aldon Smith physique wise to me.

 

Its Tavon Austin who looks like Maybin, albeit Austin is a shorter and bulkier

 

But, I dont see any scenario where that ziggy ansah from BYU isn't a dominant force in the NFL. Plus with our unknown/hybrid/ what-are-we defense, I think Ansah would be a better fit for a hybrid type guy, which I admit is iroc seeing as Jordan played OLB in college

Edited February 26, 2013 by peterpan

[Sisyphean Bills]

I don't accept the notion that there aren't high quality prospects in this year's draft.

This isn't the right thread for a QB debate, but I do want to clarify. This draft is comparatively very weak at the QB position. However, that does not mean that all of this year's QBs will never be any good. There may even be an Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady in this class who just needs the time and coaching to develop into an elite NFL QB, key being that it took them a little time to master their trade. No one knows at this point. But, if the Bills go this route, we should hope their talent evaluators finally get one right.

[thebandit27]

There are no slam dunks on OLBs in the 1st round. NONE.

 

I really like Jamie Collins (S Miss) in the 3rd tho.

 

Like Collins in the 3rd...also love the idea of Zaviar Gooden (Missouri) in the 3rd-4th, as he could probably start at WLB later on in his rookie season.

Another guy to look at is Sio Moore from UConn, but he's more of a SLB fit; great in coverage and solid tackler.

 

Yep.

 

The last two "Maybin clones" were Von Miller and Bruce Irvin.

 

As I felt strongly about Miller and Irvin, Jordan is way better than Maybin.

 

Jordan does need to work on his strength and his game but his raw skills are off the charts.

 

It's a given that he'll be utilized as a pass rusher but an imaginative DC would find ways to use his freakish speed and length in other ways including in short zones and even shadowing tight ends.

 

I think Jordan is somewhat analogous to Cordarelle Patterson in that you can see that his natural talent is off the charts.

 

I never saw that with Maybin.

 

And the workout numbers confirm the game tape:

 

http://footballsfutu...combine/de.html

 

Second only to Ansah in 10 yard split, tied for 3rd among 21 DEs in the forty, first in the broad jump, and a good vertical jump of 32.5.

 

I see he didn't bench though.

 

He needs shoulder surgery and can't bench.

[JPS]

I like all your LBs Bandit. All.

 

Guys were saying yesterday it's going to take Jordan 18 months to put on weight due to surgery.

 

Hey...question: I don't know how to quote just part of a guy's statement to respond to. Anyone?

 

Thanks.

[Brainiac21]

Maybin run much slower than Jordan. And Jordan's "low" weight is 248, while Maybin had trouble getting and staying there. Once Jordan can lift, he should put on another 10. Don't know about 20, you certainly aren;t putting that onto your pecs and he can probably do most other things.

 

I had this surgery myself... was fine in 6 months. Maybe not 100% strength, but he can be lifting and playing by then for sure.

[Dragonborn10]

I've posted this before. Jordan is Maybin 2.0. I just don't see him playing DE in the NFL. He couldn't hold the edge against the run at Oregon. Stanford's OL routinely blew him off the ball in Oregon's loss at home. Could he translate into a 3-4 OLB like Ware? I don't know. 6-7 OLB? I just don't know.

 

But if I was this kid 6 years ago I would have become a TE. 6-7 with 4.6 speed. That is crazy. Incredible athlete. Just don't know if he has a position. These tweeners are usually homeruns or busts. Charles Haley is a HOF tweener. Maybin is out of football.

[KeisterHollow]

Thank You! And Sisyphean too!!!

 

If Geno is gone, and The Bills stay at #8...I would be thrilled with Jordan...I've been talking about him for a while, and what he did today just blew me away...He's very well rounded, and explosive athletically...I think when the shoulder gets cleaned up he'll be able to get stronger (that's why he did not bench...He has shoulder surgery scheduled right after the Combine)...But Jordan is no Maybin...Jordan could be the next JPP, or Aldon Smith, with the ability to drop into coverage a bit...He's flexible...A 3-Down Defender...I really like that kid...

 

I agree - Jordan really impressed me at the combine. I watched video of him and was really impressed by his consistency and his smoothness. He looks so fluid on tape - which can't be taught. Couple that with his now proven speed, and this kid is going to be getting lots of sacks every year. Now, if he can add 20 lbs of muscle after the shoulder surgery, he could become a total package and be a monster for a long time. If I were Buffalo I would seriously consider adding him if available. It'd be our version of Miller or Ware.

 

And, a SIGNIFICANT difference between Maybin and Jordan - Maybin came out of college around 230lbs. Jordan is 250lbs. There are guys in the league at his weight, at OLB, who are successful. Adding weight - which he'll naturally do - will only make him better.

Edited February 26, 2013 by KeisterHollow

[Sisyphean Bills]

I've posted this before. Jordan is Maybin 2.0. I just don't see him playing DE in the NFL. He couldn't hold the edge against the run at Oregon. Stanford's OL routinely blew him off the ball in Oregon's loss at home. Could he translate into a 3-4 OLB like Ware? I don't know. 6-7 OLB? I just don't know.

 

But if I was this kid 6 years ago I would have become a TE. 6-7 with 4.6 speed. That is crazy. Incredible athlete. Just don't know if he has a position. These tweeners are usually homeruns or busts. Charles Haley is a HOF tweener. Maybin is out of football.

 

Like you say, you've got guys like Charles Haley and Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware all the way down to guys like Aaron Maybin and Vernon Gholston, so it can run the entire gamut. So it seems a bit contradictory to say both "I don't know" and "he's Maybin 2.0". It's OK to not be sold or to be convinced he's going to suck moose nuts, but how both?

[Dragonborn10]

Like you say, you've got guys like Charles Haley and Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware all the way down to guys like Aaron Maybin and Vernon Gholston, so it can run the entire gamut. So it seems a bit contradictory to say both "I don't know" and "he's Maybin 2.0". It's OK to not be sold or to be convinced he's going to suck moose nuts, but how both?

Fair enough. The draft is a crap shoot but I live in Portland and have seen this kid play. He is not that good against the run facing PAC-12 defenses. If you told me they are swithing to a 3-4 with Mario at OLB I would not be too upset with Jordan at the other OLB spot. This of course with him never playing OLB. If they switch to a 3-4 that relegates Mark Anderson to 3rd down or 4 man front DE - which is ok as that is where he did well with the Patriots. Not sure who the other DE is in a 3-4. KW is not fast enough to play DE and not big enough to play NT - been there done that. If they remain primarily a 4-3, DE is not a need.

[KOKBILLS]

I like all your LBs Bandit. All.

 

Guys were saying yesterday it's going to take Jordan 18 months to put on weight due to surgery.

 

Hey...question: I don't know how to quote just part of a guy's statement to respond to. Anyone?

 

Thanks.

 

18 months? Wow!I had not heard that?

 

If that's true it certainly can't help his Draft stock...Though... Despite the fact that his size looks picture perfect for that hybrid DE/OLB position in many 3-4 alignments, Jordan did drop in coverage a good bit at Oregon...I think teams are going to be much more concerned about the health/soundness of the shoulder than how much weight he can put on in the next 6 Months...Simply because he's a more diverse player that can fit into multiple schemes...I don't think he's a guy that can only rush the passer standing up and that's all he can do...I still think he's a Top 10 talent no matter what...His upside is almost limitless...

[JohnC]

This isn't the right thread for a QB debate, but I do want to clarify. This draft is comparatively very weak at the QB position. However, that does not mean that all of this year's QBs will never be any good. There may even be an Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady in this class who just needs the time and coaching to develop into an elite NFL QB, key being that it took them a little time to master their trade. No one knows at this point. But, if the Bills go this route, we should hope their talent evaluators finally get one rig about.

 

You can have the same concern about the evaluators getting it right on players in general without necessarily focusing on the qb position.

 

This isn't the right thread for a QB debate, but I do want to clarify.

 

To a certain extent the issue of drafting a DE/OLB who might be higher on your draft board than a qb you are considering is very much a related issue. If you have on your board a lower rated qb but a quality franchise qb prospect I would take the qb because that position is clearly more impactful than the DE/OLB position. Without a doubt the DE/OLB prospect is more likely to contribute more quickly than a qb prospect. That is all the more reason to get the qb prospect on board sooner rather than later and get the development process going.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Fair enough. The draft is a crap shoot but I live in Portland and have seen this kid play. He is not that good against the run facing PAC-12 defenses. If you told me they are swithing to a 3-4 with Mario at OLB I would not be too upset with Jordan at the other OLB spot. This of course with him never playing OLB. If they switch to a 3-4 that relegates Mark Anderson to 3rd down or 4 man front DE - which is ok as that is where he did well with the Patriots. Not sure who the other DE is in a 3-4. KW is not fast enough to play DE and not big enough to play NT - been there done that. If they remain primarily a 4-3, DE is not a need.

That's all fine. Mark Anderson is the model of inconsistency and a journeyman. He's had a couple standout years in terms of sacks and a lot more ho-hum campaigns. He's on his 4th team. The question then is whether Dion Jordan gives the Bills a better edge rusher than Anderson and when. And maybe even if. Still, I think he's a real athletic kid and does not simply get by on hustle and "a quick first step" (long may that line live in infamy) alone like Maybin did.

 

PS: While I'm not banging the table for Jordan, I do see him as a highly probable upgrade to a JAG. I do have some concerns, but the kid is freakishly athletic and if developed right could even be dominant. Having a defense manned with guys that cannot run hasn't worked.

[KOKBILLS]

I've posted this before. Jordan is Maybin 2.0. I just don't see him playing DE in the NFL. He couldn't hold the edge against the run at Oregon. Stanford's OL routinely blew him off the ball in Oregon's loss at home. Could he translate into a 3-4 OLB like Ware? I don't know. 6-7 OLB? I just don't know.

 

But if I was this kid 6 years ago I would have become a TE. 6-7 with 4.6 speed. That is crazy. Incredible athlete. Just don't know if he has a position. These tweeners are usually homeruns or busts. Charles Haley is a HOF tweener. Maybin is out of football.

 

I know you have your opinion based on what you have seen...But the Scouts I really like and trust could not disagree with you more...And some of these guys specifically did not like Maybin...Like Mike Mayock for example...

 

Could he be better vs the run overall? Of course he could...Almost any prospect could...But he was the focal point of a lot of blocking schemes too...And the kid is an absolute freak athlete...Maybin wishes he was the type of athlete Jordan is...

 

Here's a quick analysis about Jordan that was written in January by David Syvertsen, and posted on Great Blue North...It pretty much sums up what I think when I see Jordan play...

 

LB Dion Jordan – Oregon - 6-7/243 .... What coaches and general managers want at the top of round one is upside, versatility, and the ability to contribute early on. Dion Jordan has all three. A freakish athlete with his ability to play low despite his height. Technically sound with good arm/hand use. Very fast, very fluid in space. Jordan spent a lot of time rushing the edge, out wide in coverage against wide receivers, and filling lanes against the run. He has the frame for more weight, and he will fit in to any scheme. Jordan is an explosive athlete with length, aggression, and versatility. He is a top 10 caliber player. <>

Edited February 26, 2013 by KOKBILLS

[dpberr]

The Bills do not need more undersized linebackers like Aaron Maybin who run upright with marginal power.

 

THe Bills do not need more players with chronic back problems like Terrell Troup.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

I thought he was given a positive bill of health. He looks like a beast on tape.

How much "tape' have you watched ?

[NewEra]

 

 

Yep.

 

The last two "Maybin clones" were Von Miller and Bruce Irvin.

 

As I felt strongly about Miller and Irvin, Jordan is way better than Maybin.

 

Jordan does need to work on his strength and his game but his raw skills are off the charts.

 

It's a given that he'll be utilized as a pass rusher but an imaginative DC would find ways to use his freakish speed and length in other ways including in short zones and even shadowing tight ends.

 

I think Jordan is somewhat analogous to Cordarelle Patterson in that you can see that his natural talent is off the charts.

 

I never saw that with Maybin.

 

And the workout numbers confirm the game tape:

 

http://footballsfuture.com/2013/combine/de.html

 

Second only to Ansah in 10 yard split, tied for 3rd among 21 DEs in the forty, first in the broad jump, and a good vertical jump of 32.5.

 

I see he didn't bench though.

 

On cue as always. Thanks for saving me a few minutes of typing. While he's not Von Miller athletically, he's a much better athlete than Maybin. I said in December, he's the guy I wanted because I thought he'd be available. I don't think he'll be there now. If Jarvis jones is there, I pray we take him. It scares me a bit that he doesn't like the weight room, but his instincts and ability on the football field are legit. I think he's a star in pettines system.

[C.Biscuit97]

People try to hard to compare players. Some didn't like Orakpo because Texas players are busts. If Maybin succeed, his body type was similar to Jason Taylor's.

 

The draft is a crapshoot and each player is an individual. Judge them by their production and competition. And still you might be wrong.

[NewEra]

People try to hard to compare players. Some didn't like Orakpo because Texas players are busts. If Maybin succeed, his body type was similar to Jason Taylor's.

 

The draft is a crapshoot and each player is an individual. Judge them by their production and competition. And still you might be wrong.

 

Well said. There's 3 things that stand out to me as why some guys succeed and some guys suck. Athletic ability, mental toughness to truly want to be me great and good coaches/scheme. Some guys can get by with one or two of those things. Athletic ability and coaches are what they are but an athletes mental makeup is usually what differentiates the greats from the not so greats IMO. Hard to tell at the combine and watching videos. The interviews are crucia.

Edited February 26, 2013 by NewEra