Renewable Energy With Renewable Grants

[We Come In Peace]

You're an idiot.

That's not an answer, I was being serious and not trying to be truculent with my response. Nothing I've said about Tesla is controversial unless you don't know your history, which it seems you might not.

[We Come In Peace]

Tesla got screwed. Nobody denies it. Hell, a band even named themselves over it.

 

Now, to go from that...to there's a super secret government installation that is doing Tesla stuff and doesn't want anybody to know about it? Sci-fi channel. This is what Hollywood loves: just enough fact to cross the suspension of disbelief threshold.

You made that leap, not me.

 

What I am saying is that there are plenty of motives for suppressing and withholding technology and a long history that shows it's been done over and over again in the past. Tesla was just one example. Tesla tried to fight the system and died broke, discredited and dishonored. This was done not because the government wanted to keep his technology for itself but because the cabal that truly wielded the power in the world (and still does today) saw Tesla's methods as a threat to their gravy train and wanted to suppress it. Free, unlimited energy pulled from the atmosphere? How can you monetize that?

 

You can't. Or at least you can't as easily as you can with direct current which requires massive transformers and an infrastructure that makes it a more business friendly (read: profitable) model.

 

The "old boys" favored their model over Tesla's, not because theirs was better, but because they "could put a meter" on their system. This has given them well over 100 years of profits and control over the population.

 

Dude, I know an ex-NSA guy who sold his patents. At one point, they were state of the art and classified. When they were replaced by something better, he got the green light to go commericial. He says there's lots of guys like him.

Neat story. Not sure what your point is with it...

 

Morevover, there's this thing called the internet now. Tesla was fighting when the "old boy" club really did exist, and they really did have control over the media.

 

First, the "old boy" club still exists. And second, you of all people should know that the media is more "controlled" than ever before. The power of the media is in the hands of a few corporations -- and if you look at who runs those corporations you will see ties their ties the "old boy" club is stronger than ever.

 

 

Double Moreover, if anyone thought they could make any money off of any of Tesla's theories...they'd be doing it. Not just in this country. Especially if they could get their hands on his research.

This is nonsense -- it's sound logic and makes sense on the surface but it completely overlooks the main thrust of this topic. Tesla HIMSELF couldn't make money on his own designs. He tried fighting the powers the be and lost. He wasn't alone.

 

You don't wield the kind of power and influence this group does without knowing how to silence threats. It happens every single day.

 

 

I find that most of the "they are doing this" stories come from the wannabes. Not good enough to go get a EE degree and invent something...but still interested in EE? Become a "journalist" or a "watchdog" and then write stories about the people who are good enough to get that degree and engineer something. It's the same thing in my job. There are a zillion "health care informatics" bloggers or "workflow" bloggers or "mobile enterprise" bloggers. Hardly if any have ever run a project, built an archtecture from scratch, or actually sat down an wrote a single line of code that has been put into production.

 

But, they all "know" something about what I do.

There's no question that for every valid conspiracy theorist you find you can point to hundreds if not thousands of nut jobs who are spouting nonsense. Disinformation campaigns work for a reason.

 

But this doesn't mean every conspiracy theory is nutty. In Tesla's case, it's well documented and proven that there was indeed a massive conspiracy organized by the most powerful men in the world to discredit and keep his designs out of the public eye.

 

It happened before, less than 100 years ago in this case, why would you ever think it can't happen again? That's just ignorant.

Edited February 27, 2013 by We Come In Peace

[Joe Miner]

That's not an answer, I was being serious and not trying to be truculent with my response. Nothing I've said about Tesla is controversial unless you don't know your history, which it seems you might not.

 

Your stories about Tesla aren't what's making you an idiot in this thread.

[We Come In Peace]

Your stories about Tesla aren't what's making you an idiot in this thread.

Then please explain.

[Joe Miner]

Then please explain.

 

Run through your logic from renewable energy to Tesla to gov't suppressing technology once more and try to figure out where you stopped making sense.

 

Here's a hint: Your initial premise on renewable energy is totally off base

Edited February 27, 2013 by Joe Miner

[We Come In Peace]

Run through your logic from renewable energy to Tesla to gov't suppressing technology once more and try to figure out where you stopped making sense.

 

Here's a hint: Your initial premise on renewable energy is totally off base

My initial premise was that there is a history of the powers that be (not the US government, there is a difference) suppressing alternative technologies that pose a threat to our economic model. Tesla's life was offered as an example of this.

 

Tesla's life work was dedicated to creating an alternative and renewable energy source, one that draws electricity from the atmosphere and despite his advances and proven record of success, his work was systematically suppressed by the powers that be. Not the US government -- though they played their part. Had his work not been suppressed in favor of Edison's direct current, and allowed to compete in the open marketplace, we might have a completely different energy system in place.

 

That's not off base. That's historical fact.

Edited February 27, 2013 by We Come In Peace

[Joe Miner]

My initial premise was that there is a history of the powers that be (not the US government, there is a difference) suppressing alternative technologies that pose a threat to our economic model. Tesla's life was offered as an example of this.

 

Tesla's life work was dedicated to creating an alternative and renewable energy source, one that draws electricity from the atmosphere and despite his advances and proven record of success, his work was systematically suppressed by the powers that be. Not the US government -- though they played their part. Had his work not been suppressed in favor of Edison's direct current, and allowed to compete in the open marketplace, we might have a completely different energy system in place.

 

That's not off base. That's historical fact.

 

So utilities today use Edison's system?

[DC Tom]

My initial premise was that there is a history of the powers that be (not the US government, there is a difference) suppressing alternative technologies that pose a threat to our economic model. Tesla's life was offered as an example of this.

 

Tesla's life work was dedicated to creating an alternative and renewable energy source, one that draws electricity from the atmosphere and despite his advances and proven record of success, his work was systematically suppressed by the powers that be. Not the US government -- though they played their part. Had his work not been suppressed in favor of Edison's direct current, and allowed to compete in the open marketplace, we might have a completely different energy system in place.

 

That's not off base. That's historical fact.

 

Well, they had to outlaw it after Hugh Jackman abused it so badly. And ironically, if it wasn't for Edison, he never would have been able to record Ziggy Stardust.

 

 

(And last I checked, we use AC current, dipshit.)

[We Come In Peace]

So utilities today use Edison's system?

I don't know what they use today. I do know that Edison/GE were the primary competitors during Tesla's time. And that they were ultimately backed by a powerful group of men who worked to assure their version would win the day. And furthermore that the same group worked to discredit, bankrupt and suppress Tesla and his alternative energy research.

 

Well, they had to outlaw it after Hugh Jackman abused it so badly. And ironically, if it wasn't for Edison, he never would have been able to record Ziggy Stardust.

 

 

(And last I checked, we use AC current, dipshit.)

 

I got nothing against Edison. Or Jackman.

[DC Tom]

I don't know what they use today. I do know that Edison/GE were the primary competitors during Tesla's time. And that they were ultimately backed by a powerful group of men who worked to assure their version would win the day. And furthermore that the same group worked to discredit, bankrupt and suppress Tesla and his alternative energy research.

 

And yet, GE and Edison lost, and we use AC current transmission today.

 

Face it, you don't know ****.

[Joe Miner]

I don't know what they use today. I do know that Edison/GE were the primary competitors during Tesla's time. And that they were ultimately backed by a powerful group of men who worked to assure their version would win the day. And furthermore that the same group worked to discredit, bankrupt and suppress Tesla and his alternative energy research.

 

I got nothing against Edison. Or Jackman.

 

Then those powerful men did a ****ty job of suppressing Tesla's research.

[We Come In Peace]

And yet, GE and Edison lost, and we use AC current transmission today.

 

Face it, you don't know ****.

No, again, we're talking about Tesla and what happened to him and his research into renewable/free energy.

 

And I do freely admit I know ****. About most things at least.

 

Then those powerful men did a ****ty job of suppressing Tesla's research.

They certainly did when it comes to his work in the area of renewable energy.

[3rdnlng]

No, again, we're talking about Tesla and what happened to him and his research into renewable/free energy.

 

And I do freely admit I know ****. About most things at least.

 

 

They certainly did when it comes to his work in the area of renewable energy.

 

I guess I'm not sure what you are saying. If "powerful men" did a schitty job of suppressing Tesla's work on "free" renewable energy then why aren't there a ton of people out there promoting it? I mean it sounds like it almost dropped in their laps. What's the holdup?

[OCinBuffalo]

You made that leap, not me.

 

What I am saying is that there are plenty of motives for suppressing and withholding technology and a long history that shows it's been done over and over again in the past. Tesla was just one example. Tesla tried to fight the system and died broke, discredited and dishonored. This was done not because the government wanted to keep his technology for itself but because the cabal that truly wielded the power in the world (and still does today) saw Tesla's methods as a threat to their gravy train and wanted to suppress it. Free, unlimited energy pulled from the atmosphere? How can you monetize that?

 

You can't. Or at least you can't as easily as you can with direct current which requires massive transformers and an infrastructure that makes it a more business friendly (read: profitable) model.

 

The "old boys" favored their model over Tesla's, not because theirs was better, but because they "could put a meter" on their system. This has given them well over 100 years of profits and control over the population.

Yes, and the government/big business is suppressing the prepetual motion device...and also that thing/vacuum cleaner parts that takes milk, or any liquid, and creates and powers things with plasma.

 

None of the people who believe in these myths, understand how venture capital works, or the size of the egos of the people involved. I know some VCs...and I am laughing as I am imaging the various ways in which they would tell someone from "big business" to F off, for even suggesting that they back off on one of their investments.

 

No, you do not need a patent to get funding. Yes, the VCs will fund anything that has a remote chance of working because they are funding 30 other things, and they only need 3 of them to hit big to cover their losses on the other 27. The trouble is: it has to have a remote chance of working, and, it has to have a very high success ceiling. Renewable energy has the highest ceiling there is, right?

 

As I said, I know VC guys. If I told them tomorrow that I had found a potential source of free/renewable/perpetual motion...any of it. I'd be in a private jet to Newark Airport inside of an hour. That would be true even if I said I knew a guy, who knew a guy...because...I've actually gotten a commission for nothing more than knowing a guy, who knew a guy.

Neat story. Not sure what your point is with it...

Oh I don't know, perhaps to illistrate at least one concrete example of the government not supressing commercial application of a technology it has actually used in covert operations, never mind mere theories?

First, the "old boy" club still exists. And second, you of all people should know that the media is more "controlled" than ever before. The power of the media is in the hands of a few corporations -- and if you look at who runs those corporations you will see ties their ties the "old boy" club is stronger than ever.

So does the internent. Is anybody controlling what I am writing here? The "power of the media" is nowhere near what it was.

 

Perhaps you should ask Bill Clinton, Dan Rather or Anthony's Weiner whether things are the same as they were before the internet. JFK ran around putting himself in a position to compromise national security on a nightly basis. The only reason he got away with that? The old media.

 

With the new media? He wouldn't be elected Senator.

This is nonsense -- it's sound logic and makes sense on the surface but it completely overlooks the main thrust of this topic. Tesla HIMSELF couldn't make money on his own designs. He tried fighting the powers the be and lost. He wasn't alone.

 

You don't wield the kind of power and influence this group does without knowing how to silence threats. It happens every single day.

As I said, you simply don't know any VC guys, investment bankers, or their ilk. Talk to one sometime, that would be a treat..for me. I'd like to come watch that meeting, where you tell random investment banker dude that he's so weak, that he would be willing to throw away his 2-6 months of work, and his 1st traunch $, because somebody tells him to. I've never actually seen anybody beaten senseless with a wingtip.

 

Come on with this nonsense. If there was a chance of making money off Tesla, these guys would have it. In fact, it's an even money bet that they have a "Tesla File", because they have a file, or an expert, for everything.

There's no question that for every valid conspiracy theorist you find you can point to hundreds if not thousands of nut jobs who are spouting nonsense. Disinformation campaigns work for a reason.

 

But this doesn't mean every conspiracy theory is nutty. In Tesla's case, it's well documented and proven that there was indeed a massive conspiracy organized by the most powerful men in the world to discredit and keep his designs out of the public eye.

 

It happened before, less than 100 years ago in this case, why would you ever think it can't happen again? That's just ignorant.

I would think it can't happen again....for the opposite reason that Dan Rather thought he could get away with it.

 

I understand the internent. Dan Rather does not. We can now choose to inform ourselves on demand...about anything at will. We are not subject to the whims of Dan Rather. Dan Rather did not take this into account, but, after 30 years of being the self-appointed gatekeeper as to what is said, and how, and what is not, it's not hard to see why he would miss it.

 

That's the ultimate point here: if I invented a renewable energy source and posted it working on youtube...who the F can really stop that? Even if they could, what's to stop me making 10 new accounts and posting it 10 different times from 10 diffeent proxies? If I'm smart enough to invent something like that, I'm pretty sure I'm smart enough to master basic internent hygene.

 

Edit: well there are exceptions of course, like the Scientific Ethics professor who was caught creating phony global warming documents. He was tripped up by that super complex computer science vagary: the timestamp.

Edited February 27, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[We Come In Peace]

(snipped for space)

Your entire basis for believing a conspiracy could no longer suppress information because of the internet is laughably ignorant. It presumes there is a level playing field when there clearly is not.

 

Cheaters are always ahead of the curve.

[OCinBuffalo]

Your entire basis for believing a conspiracy could no longer suppress information because of the internet is laughably ignorant. It presumes there is a level playing field when there clearly is not.

 

Cheaters are always ahead of the curve.

Re-read my post: is the driving factor the internet? Or, does the current, standard behavior, hell the very existence, of the current standard VC/Investment banker drive it?

 

The trouble for you is: both of these things do exist. Given both of them, it's damn near impossible to imagine a scenario where some guy invents a safe disruptive energy technology, can create a working example application with it, and have it suppressed...by of all people "big business" or government.

 

The only trouble I see in that: the government plays their usual EPA games in determining what is safe. If this new energy source allowed us to maintain our current lifestyles, and especially if it allowed us to continue driving SUVs or meant that small businesses could be set up by anyone to collect the energy, thus endangering the social justice(retarded) agenda...there's a good chance that the energy would be arbitrarily deemed unsafe. But again, that's where the internet comes in, and refuses to allow that 'unsafe' determination to be the last word.

 

Even if the guy wanted to give the energy away for free, or, the design made monetizing it difficult such that free was the best way.....the VCs would still fund it. Why? Because they want to be the guy who opens up the chain of coffee stores NEXT to each place where the free energy was collected. They want to be the people who distribute this energy, once it is collected. Or they want to be the guy who makes the stuff used to deliver it.

 

Whatever, however. If the business model makes sense...and if a bunch of other factors are met...it's going to get funded.

 

 

Edit: Does this mean you don't want to have that meeting with the VC where he beats you with his shoe?

Edited February 27, 2013 by OCinBuffalo