Coach Tuesday Posted February 23, 2013 Author Posted February 23, 2013 The fact is that Kelsay has been MORE productive than Nelson over the course of his career. Nelson is not even a starting caliber WR on a team with very weak WRs. He is a role player, just like Kelsay. Honestly, all the crying about Nelson is a joke. I think that people on this board have been watching mediocrity for too long to see it for what it is. You don't pay for past production. You pay for future production I think people like YOU are so used to mediocrity that you just assume that anyone on the Bills' roster is expendable because the overall product is so poor. History says you're mistaken.
vincec Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 You don't pay for past production. You pay for future production I think people like YOU are so used to mediocrity that you just assume that anyone on the Bills' roster is expendable because the overall product is so poor. History says you're mistaken. What history? Despite a few exceptions, the vast majority of players that the Bills let go really do suck. It's people like YOU that are always whining about every personnel decision the Bills make. It get's old.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 The fact is that Kelsay has been MORE productive than Nelson over the course of his career. Nelson is not even a starting caliber WR on a team with very weak WRs. He is a role player, just like Kelsay. Honestly, all the crying about Nelson is a joke. I think that people on this board have been watching mediocrity for too long to see it for what it is. Again, why are we comparing an old guy who was a second round pick and has inked over $50M in contracts to a young guy who was an UDFA and has a $1.3M to $2M tender? Oh yeah, because you said they were similarly talented for their positions.
t317 Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 I didn't see anyone else post it, but I checked out his twitter feed again this morning, and the "Wow" reply from Nelson has since been deleted.... not that it matters too much, but just thought I would throw that in
KOKBILLS Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 You do realize that you just thanked someone for one of the dumbest comparisons ever posted on TSW. KOKBILLS summed it up pretty well, but let me add that if Nelson was 34 and had the third highest cap figure on the roster...as a backup....I don't think we wouid see him being "lamented". The Kelsay defenders make out the disdain for Kelsay like it is a personal vendetta against him. What are you getting at? I don't really know why people like you and vincec would think that is the case. This is the reason; As as a fan we discriminate against old, unproductive and grossly overpaid players. Thats the nature of the game. It's not personal. Nobody is calling him an a-hole, they are saying as a player he does not bring enough to the table. The disdain is elevated with each passing season where Kelsay is retained at high dollars and lays yet another egg. Nelson is a young guy, he has been playing for peanuts for his first 3 seasons and he is a useful player. Is he great? No. But he is the second best WR on a team that figures to be in a lot of 3 wr sets. He is also kind of a hybrid TE/WR and a good blocker, a big target that would by any measure seem to be a nice player to have around if breaking in a young QB. I'm not going to lose any sleep over losing ANY Bills player, but just from a standpoint of logic, letting David Nelson leave seems like an invitation to more of the same, trading out one good player for another potentially good player on draft day. That is not progress. Exactly...Well put... And I'll add that ANY Bills fan who is not looking at this Organization, and the moves it makes, without a bit of skepticism has not been paying much attention to anything over the past decade and then some...Buddy Nix is still in that office...He still has a say in decisions...Not sure how any Bills fan could give a Nix-lead Front office the benefit of any doubt...But maybe that's just me...
Meathead Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 the comparison was historical, not just for the current situation. for this season yeah id say kelsay could easily be released for a younger player due to his age and salary. but the irrational kelsay hate has been around for a long time. futher, he is a bonafide starter who would get snatched up and either start or be in a primary rotation for several teams even if he is released now. nelson has no chance being a real wr2. i will be slightly puzzled if they really do just let nelson walk, but to not see the irony between his and kelsays situation when it comes to fan perspective is, well, ironic
Coach Tuesday Posted February 23, 2013 Author Posted February 23, 2013 What history? Despite a few exceptions, the vast majority of players that the Bills let go really do suck. It's people like YOU that are always whining about every personnel decision the Bills make. It get's old. Right - you can go ahead and trust this FO to make the right decisions with player evals - their track record has been stellar, as you point out. Honestly, Bills fans may be the biggest suckers on the planet. the comparison was historical, not just for the current situation. for this season yeah id say kelsay could easily be released for a younger player due to his age and salary. but the irrational kelsay hate has been around for a long time. futher, he is a bonafide starter who would get snatched up and either start or be in a primary rotation for several teams even if he is released now. nelson has no chance being a real wr2. i will be slightly puzzled if they really do just let nelson walk, but to not see the irony between his and kelsays situation when it comes to fan perspective is, well, ironic Kelsay is NOT a "bona fide starter." Surely you are joking. He can't even crack the starting lineup for the Bills - what does that tell you?
BringBackFergy Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 I know - just pointing out that this was part of the undercurrent of the downside of firing him. I know he earned that firing, especially down the stretch. One possible cheap free agent I could see filling the 2nd/3rd wr role for a couple years would be devery Henderson from the saints. Won't get you that excited but knows marrone, likely a similar system, plays on the outside if Stevie goes to the slot more, and might be that vet on field coach for the offense like people keep seeking in jets defenders I like him.
dhg Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 They may be trying to get the number one pick next year, I am starting to think. You seriously think losing Nelson is that big of a difference?
vincec Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Again, why are we comparing an old guy who was a second round pick and has inked over $50M in contracts to a young guy who was an UDFA and has a $1.3M to $2M tender? Oh yeah, because you said they were similarly talented for their positions. Who cares what they make? Are you getting a cut or something? The Bills are under the cap. Nelson produces the same or less, therefore he is equivalent. Kelsay is not that good either but he is just the latest whipping boy like Peters, Bell, Whitner and Posluszny before him. You seriously think losing Nelson is that big of a difference? Of course, haven't you been reading? In the hands of Tom Brady Nelson will be the next Randy Moss. The Bills are doomed. Edited February 23, 2013 by vincec
BADOLBILZ Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 What history? Despite a few exceptions, the vast majority of players that the Bills let go really do suck. It's people like YOU that are always whining about every personnel decision the Bills make. It get's old. Those exceptions have been costly. Milloy lead to Whitner. Pat Williams lead to McCargo. Fletcher lead to Poz. The Bills let Winfield, Clements and Greer walk in that order while they were in the range of $30M under the cap each year. Those losses lead to a poor use of high draft picks on Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Williams, and it also necessitated drafting Gilmore. Even years later, all three of those CB's started the majority of their games for their respective teams....all better teams than the Bills......and two of those teams were in the playoffs.....something the Bills haven't done in 13 years. What I am saying is YOU ARE WRONG if you think that the players the Bills let go aren't hurting the franchise.
Coach Tuesday Posted February 23, 2013 Author Posted February 23, 2013 You seriously think losing Nelson is that big of a difference? No. But I think the re-emergence of this dismal cycle of letting good, young players walk and then replacing them with draft picks, then doing it again every three years, is highly disturbing. And it's also disturbing that we may once again have a coach who will not tailor his system to his players.
vincec Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Those exceptions have been costly. Milloy lead to Whitner. Pat Williams lead to McCargo. Fletcher lead to Poz. The Bills let Winfield, Clements and Greer walk in that order while they were in the range of $30M under the cap each year. Those losses lead to a poor use of high draft picks on Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Williams, and it also necessitated drafting Gilmore. Even years later, all three of those CB's started the majority of their games for their respective teams....all better teams than the Bills......and two of those teams were in the playoffs.....something the Bills haven't done in 13 years. What I am saying is YOU ARE WRONG if you think that the players the Bills let go aren't hurting the franchise. Milloy, Williams, Fletcher, Winfield, Clements and Greer were all pro-bowlers. Nelson too? What about Evans, Owens, Parrish, J Reed, Hangartner, Incognito, J Scott and Florence? All starters that were released and went on to start for other teams over the past 4 years. No consideration for them? Is Nelson more like them or the first group? Every personnel move that the Bills make is not wrong, although that seems to be the default position of most posters. Edited February 23, 2013 by vincec
Coach Tuesday Posted February 23, 2013 Author Posted February 23, 2013 Milloy, Williams, Fletcher, Winfield, Clements and Greer were all pro-bowlers. Nelson too? What about Evans, Owens, Parrish, J Reed, Hangartner, Incognito, J Scott and Florence? All starters that were released and went on to start for other teams over the past 4 years. No consideration for them? Is Nelson more like them or the first group? Incognito made the Pro Bowl last year. Scott should not have been allowed to walk - he would've provided much-needed depth that year. The rest of the guys you cite were old when the Bills let them go. You are working very hard to justify a poor argument and to defend an organization that has proven empirically that it sucks at talent evaluation - it is PTR-esq...
vincec Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Incognito made the Pro Bowl last year. Scott should not have been allowed to walk - he would've provided much-needed depth that year. The rest of the guys you cite were old when the Bills let them go. You are working very hard to justify a poor argument and to defend an organization that has proven empirically that it sucks at talent evaluation - it is PTR-esq... Just so I am clear. Your argument is that the Bills suck at personnel evaluation, therefore releasing Nelson is a bad move. What if they kept Nelson? That would've been bad too right? The Bills suck at personnel evaluation so every move they make is poor. Correct? Edited February 23, 2013 by vincec
killshot Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 wow.. young producing player when healthy. He will be a NYJ and kill us every year .
Nuncha Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 I have no idea how relevant his "hot hand" was to Nelson.....but just for interest sake.... Fitz had a hot hand for the first 7 games in 2011. Nelson's averages are: 1st 7 games 2011 4.4 catches/game 52 yards/game Games 8-16 2011 3.3 catches/game 32 yards/game Yea but how many of these were clutch 3rd down conversions? They missed him last season no doubt about that. wow.. young producing player when healthy. He will be a NYJ and kill us every year . New England Patriot...............
RunTheBall Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 I'd like to believe that with Marone's emphasis on players and how he wants to run the team, Nelson would be the first person to know he wasn't being tendered. I'm inclined to think this is just speculation. RTB
bobobonators Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Ok so we have Stevie, TJ Graham, and... Brad Smith? Did we just get one of the worst WR corps in the league?? Why make holes on a roster already with many of them. What was tender, even? Probably have been kept for 1.4 or 1.8 mil. I try to keep an open mind, but I really don't like this one. If we are going with a younger QB than a TE is supposidly their best friend, and Nelson gets open in the short and mid range like a TE and blocks relatively well. And now I can see him going to NE potentially since Belichek wanted him as an UDFA when he came out. Bad move all around. LOL..you only notice this now?
Coach Tuesday Posted February 23, 2013 Author Posted February 23, 2013 Just so I am clear. Your argument is that the Bills suck at personnel evaluation, therefore releasing Nelson is a bad move. What if they kept Nelson? That would've been bad too right? The Bills suck at personnel evaluation so every move they make is poor. Correct? My argument is that when the Bills let young, productive players leave, they tend to have unfilled holes on their roster.
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