eball Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 If that's true...then I'll agree... But I have to tell you...According to Marrone's own words, that's not the way the decisions have been made...He went to great lengths during his Combine interviews to claim his Staff was there to Coach what they were given, and that he had basically no input on the personnel decisions thusfar...Marrone also said that was his philosophy (Coach what they give you), and basically said that's what he told the Bills in his interview...Now...I'll grant you that could all be nonsense speak...But I think when you add it to the comments Brandon made about Buddy being absolutely still 100% in charge of the Football operation, AND the fact that Buddy is obviously the point man for the Football side so far (WGR interview, Combine interview, no Whaley interviews, etc...), it's easy to assume Buddy is still in charge...It may not be correct...But that is ABSOLUTELY the message the Bills want out there...They have been calculated in giving the appearance that Buddy is still 100% in charge...What the real truth is?...Well that's anyone's guess... That's the most salient point in all of this. We are all guessing. In my mind, however, it makes no sense to exclude the head coach from providing any input in personnel decisions.
KOKBILLS Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 And I would counter this with two assertions: Re Draft: I was shocked that they passed on Wilson in the third, but so did ten other teams, including five after us, likewise for Kap, and I was unaware that we were already questioning the Dareus pick--that said, if he doesn't get his act together under Pettine, said questioning is valid. Re Regime: I'm going off the assumption that Gailey's dismissal cut into Nix's authority, that not only does he have a different dynamic with Marrone trying to evaluate for his scheme, but that we are also in the midst of the Whaley torch-passing. I believe the days of Chan/Buddy, Michael/Scottie, Mario/Luigi, Peanut butter/Jelly have ended. I get the sense that there's less synergy between Marrone and Buddy, and for the better. I totally understand that I'm displaying symptoms of a victim in an abusive relationship, namely the denial that things will never change. But I'm giving this a chance when the one thing that everyone claimed had to change did change: Ralphy handing over the keys. So when I say "regime," I'm starting (as the most ardent negative Nancies have for years) from the top-down. Fair enough... To be perfectly honest I would like nothing better than to be able to have the same mind set...And I probably would if Nix was not still lingering around with his nonsense...I don't trust anything the Bills do as long as Buddy Nix is still in the building...I just can't at this point...And for all our sake's I hope I'm dead wrong...
Buftex Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 I believe Marrone's evaluation of Nelson is that he doesn't bring anything special to the table, and he can find suitable production elsewhere. That's the only conclusion I can draw since as we have both surmised, the price tag associated with Nelson is a non-issue. Similarly, since Nelson has been so widely "acclaimed" as an all-around great guy of high character, I don't see this as a "change the cuture" move by Marrone, as opposed to what Gregggo did a decade or so ago. Funny thing is, if the Bills sign a vetran receiver with the same stats and history as Nelson, most will probably view it as a solid signing. I realize, it is still too early to know wtf the Bills are up to (maybe still to early for the Bills themselves to know!), but this move makes little sense right now. Personally, I think Nelson has above average hands and good size, length wise...if he bulked up a little more, to me, he is an ideal 3rd or 4th guy, who has experience, has been productive, and I assume won't command a ton of money wherever he signs. As for Gregg Williams vs Doug Marrone roster flipping...I don't think the roster that Williams inherited was as deficient as this one. That purging was more of a salary cap clensing. They didn't seem interested, back then, in "winning now" as much as they were in purging the old players, in favor of a squad built in the eye of Gregg Williams and Tom Donohoe. If they had a "win now" approach, I think things may have played out a little differently...in some ways, it reminds me more of Scotty Bowman taking over the Sabres...getting rid of all the vets, and bringing in his own type of players...in Bowmans' case, he put together a bunch of great regular seasons, but, ultimately, little success otherwise. I don't see the Nelson decision being that type of move. It just creates another hole that will likely be filled by a player similar to Nelson...of course, I keep forgetting Marcus Easley is on the roster...the previous coaching staff seemed to have a lot of faith in him...after 3 years, maybe we get something out of him? As I recall, it seemed like the Bills, as has become their way, made unnecessary holes in their roster back then...and they may be headed that way now. Again, really trying hard to reserve judegement right now, as we won't really have a true idea as to what the Bills might look like, until the free-agency period begins and draft come to pass. I didn't really question the release of Barnett or Wilson (two guys I like, but realize their best is behind them), and I was okay with letting Jones walk (though I thought he wasn't completely useless)...but I am not sure what the rush is to get Nelson off the roster.
Hotpockets28 Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Good god....16 pages on a player who was no more then a decent #3 type wr on the already below average skilled bills WR crew....
cantankerous Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 He was slow to begin with. After tearing up his knee he's probably lost a few steps. I wish him well, see ya David!
boyst Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Its a mistake. It was and is still. He is no different then Victor Cruz or any of the Giants extra WR a few yrs ago. No sense in this
cantankerous Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Its a mistake. It was and is still. He is no different then Victor Cruz or any of the Giants extra WR a few yrs ago. No sense in this No different than Victor Cruz? Lmao! What??
Hotpockets28 Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Its a mistake. It was and is still. He is no different then Victor Cruz or any of the Giants extra WR a few yrs ago. No sense in this wait....what...huh?????? Victor cruz is a totaly diferent type of WR...and not to mention nelson was a average #3 Wr on a below average bills Receiving corps while victor cruz is a top ""10"" Wr in the league.... Edited February 25, 2013 by Hotpockets28
BillsBytheBay Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Seriously? No offense but...The guy got open as well as anybody on this team including Stevie...He's a huge target for a WR...He PRODUCES...How many current Bills players, not just WR's, can you say that about? Like I said previously if the knee is not healing right I could see it...Otherwise this is just stupid...He would only require the minimum tender so the risk is next to nothing...He's a REAL good kid... He will contribute elsewhere if healthy...He's just a good player...He may not have the measureables, and that's why he went undrafted...But he's a good player coming from a team with very few good players...Just makes no sense to me at all... Nelson didn't really impress me either, and I don't think anybody is scared of him. Good player, great person, was third reciver on a team with no wide outs, he'll be a role player somewhere else. Its a mistake. It was and is still. He is no different then Victor Cruz or any of the Giants extra WR a few yrs ago. No sense in this Nelson scored three touchdowns, in three receptions, his first time on a pro field? Nelson can destroy man press coverage deep? Let's not talk about Nelson and Cruz in the same breath. Being a "good" reciver on the bills is like being the tallest midget. You're still a midget.
Buftex Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Nelson didn't really impress me either, and I don't think anybody is scared of him. Good player, great person, was third reciver on a team with no wide outs, he'll be a role player somewhere else. Nelson scored three touchdowns, in three receptions, his first time on a pro field? Nelson can destroy man press coverage deep? Let's not talk about Nelson and Cruz in the same breath. Being a "good" reciver on the bills is like being the tallest midget. You're still a midget. A false equivalancy....not everyone could catch 61 passes from Fitz, in one season. The guy has good hands. I agree, he isn't the player that Cruz is, but he isn't as worthless as some are making him seem.
boyst Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Until a few years ago he was just another depth WR. Not saying Nelson will be Cruz but having a fleet of good WR Malaina a difference.
KOKBILLS Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 He was slow to begin with. After tearing up his knee he's probably lost a few steps. I wish him well, see ya David! Right, because 4.5 is slow for a 6-5 WR...
The Big Cat Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Right, because 4.5 is slow for a 6-5 WR... Ha, bro: I loved me some David Nelson. I think we suffered last year without him. But I'm just not sad to see him go, and I think there are a lot of others like me. And, you can throw around 40 times all you like, I watched the man run during football games, it wasn't pretty.
cantankerous Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Ha, bro: I loved me some David Nelson. I think we suffered last year without him. But I'm just not sad to see him go, and I think there are a lot of others like me. And, you can throw around 40 times all you like, I watched the man run during football games, it wasn't pretty. Exactly. I also find it interesting that a lot of people assume his knee will return to its pre-injury condition...Far from a given... Edited February 25, 2013 by cantankerous
KOKBILLS Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Ha, bro: I loved me some David Nelson. I think we suffered last year without him. But I'm just not sad to see him go, and I think there are a lot of others like me. And, you can throw around 40 times all you like, I watched the man run during football games, it wasn't pretty. I know...He's lanky and a bit awkward...I'll give you that much...I might be 100% wrong on this...But I just have this feeling that he's going to go on and contribute big-time on another team...I just think he was about as rock solid as any player we had...Not spectacular by any means...But a guy who had a great feel for the passing game and did very well in his role...We'll see I guess...I just really liked the kid...And I hate to see him go...
Slayers Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 wait....what...huh?????? Victor cruz is a totaly diferent type of WR...and not to mention nelson was a average #3 Wr on a below average bills Receiving corps while victor cruz is a top ""10"" Wr in the league.... Sorry but I think Nelson is a #2 on a team with a real QB. The biggest difference is Nelson has Fitsuck passing to him while Cruz has all world Manning.
vincec Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Let's assume you are correct. What is the harm in tendering Nelson? Marrone's tenure (if you put this on him) to this very early point reminds me of Greggggg's start. You cannot just cut football players without someone to take their place. Creating additional holes does nothing positive for the team. Maybe Marrone just doesn't think he is very good, wants to move on and wants to give him the opportunity to look for work elsewhere. Sorry but I think Nelson is a #2 on a team with a real QB. The biggest difference is Nelson has Fitsuck passing to him while Cruz has all world Manning. Nelson is not even a #3 on a team with a real group of WRs.
dave mcbride Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) And I would counter this with two assertions: Re Draft: I was shocked that they passed on Wilson in the third, but so did ten other teams, including five after us, likewise for Kap, and I was unaware that we were already questioning the Dareus pick--that said, if he doesn't get his act together under Pettine, said questioning is valid. The five teams after the Bills who missed on Russell Wilson: 1. Jax: terrible move by them but typical of a team not willing to give up on an obviously poor player that they drafted #10 overall the year before. New coach too; probably thought that they could rescue Gabbert. 2. Washington: RG III in rd 1, Cousins in rd 4 3. Miami: Tannehill in rd 1 4. KC: there's a reason they're drafting #1 overall this season. They've drafted good players actually, but because they failed at the QB spot, banking on a poor player (Cassell), everyone in the organization is out of a job. Classic example of a team loaded with good players (7-8 pro bowlers, as I recall) completely stymied by a lack of a QB. Proof positive that if you don't have a QB, you draft them as early as f'ing possible. 5. SD: Had an elite QB in Philip Rivers already The five teams who picked before the Bills took Graham: 1. Indy - had just drafted Luck #1 overall 2. Rams - drafted Sam Bradford #1 overall two years before 3. Vikings - drafted Ponder at #12 overall the year before 4. Broncos - had just signed Payton Manning 5. Texans - have Shaub As for 2011, you're off - there were no gaps between the Bills' pick and the drafting of QBs: #29 - Bears (had Cutler already) #30 - Jets (had Sanchez; coming off of two trips to the AFC championship game) #31 - Steelers (had Roethlisberger) #32 - Packers (had Aaron Rogers) #33 - Pats (had Brady) #34 - Bills, Aaron Williams (a certifiably bad player right now) #35 - Andy Dalton #36 - Kaepernick As for Dareus, the four players drafted right after him - AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones, and Aldon Smith - have all made the pro bowl. Green and Peterson are both two-time pro bowlers, and Peterson and Smith have both been first team all pros. Edited February 26, 2013 by dave mcbride
Mark Vader Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Exactly. I also find it interesting that a lot of people assume his knee will return to its pre-injury condition...Far from a given... Maybe he won't be the same after the injury, then again maybe he will. So why not offer him a tendered contract? A contract like that won't put the Bills in cap hell. And if things don't work out, they can cut him after training camp or preseason. How does keeping Nelson hurt the team? Do you think that guys like Kevin Elliot & Chris Hogan have more to offer?
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