A Glimmer of Hope, the Bills Still not committed to keeping Fitz on th

[Meathead]

exactly what part of deal wid it do you guys not understand

[atlbillsfan1975]

Don't care, our O-line wasn't as miraculous as people think. We had to throw the ball within two seconds of the play starting and our QB was getting smashed every play. Just because our guy has a quick release, doesn't make our o-line nasty.

 

 

 

Except, when you talk about arm strength that is the entire point of the characteristic. How far and fast you can throw the ball. They aren't talking about accuracy, but arm strength when they call him noodle arm. The same noodle arm who has proven he can throw the balll 50+ yards, and still people say he can't get the ball 20 yards down the field. Which is wrong and misguided.

 

If you can throw an NFL ball 58 yards with any kind of speed, which I'm absolutely sure you can not, why are you sitting on TBD instead of trying out for the Bills? Is it because the starter is better than you in every other category? Normally, I wouldn't call out someone who is criticizing and tell them to shut up unless they can do better, but you opened the floodgates with your arm strength "stat."

 

"I can run a 4.4 40, big deal, CJ isn't that good; it's not all about speed"

 

There's an example of how stupid someone looks when they try to turn an argument into a different one after they lose by using an unbelievable personal anecdote.

 

tl;dr he has arm strength, go back to your RF voodoo doll until the next punching bag plays for the Bills and disappoints you.

This Oline is good and will be much better as they play more together and mature. And if you think the Oline is not good you lose credability with your Fitz analysis.

Also Fitz was responsible for turning the ball over 22 times last year. 16 INT and 6 fumbles. That is 1.375 T.O per game.When you factor in the average amount of possesions per game is 12, that is big! I am sorry but people who want to bang the Fitz drum need to ask themselves how they felt over the past 3 seasons watching Fitz throw a pick to lose a game?

[FireChan]

This Oline is good and will be much better as they play more together and mature. And if you think the Oline is not good you lose credability with your Fitz analysis.

Also Fitz was responsible for turning the ball over 22 times last year. 16 INT and 6 fumbles. That is 1.375 T.O per game.When you factor in the average amount of possesions per game is 12, that is big! I am sorry but people who want to bang the Fitz drum need to ask themselves how they felt over the past 3 seasons watching Fitz throw a pick to lose a game?

 

Our O-line isn't bad, they just aren't a god send. I'd say they were average to above average, but I guess on a team like the Bills that does make them nasty, eh?

 

Onto your RF points, he did turn the ball over quite a bit. I would say the stats are inflated from playing from behind. Not that he didn't have bone head picks as well but he had a few games where we were down 21 and he threw two picks after. I'd like to look at the Tennessee game to give an example of the day.

Fitzpat... 27/35 225yds 6.4ypa 3TDs 1INT 1-9sacks Hasselbeck 22/33 205 6.2 1 0 2-12

 

Now, looking at those stats, who contributed more to deciding the outcome of the game. Obviously, the pick was costly, but did RF really lose us that game after putting up 21 points? Or would we have not been in it without him?

 

Now let's look at rushing.

Johnson 18 car 195 yds 10.8 avg 2 td's 83 long

(Obviously, this is Chris Johnson)

 

Is 200 yards rushing allowed worse that 1.375 picks a game? On the whole? Including the picks that come sometimes on fluke bounces or in the first quarter when there's still a lot of time to come back?

 

I'm of the opinion that it is. If our defense played even close to average, we could've been 9-7. RF didn't break any awful records at QB this year, yet our defense broke about 10 of them in 3 weeks.

 

So you ask me how I felt when RF threw a game losing pick 3 times this year? About as sick as I felt watching runningbacks have career high games and run for 13 yards a carry every week. The difference is that RF only throws the 1.375 picks a game, whereas the RB's run for 13 yards about 20 times a game. Both suck, but one happened a lot more than the other.

 

If Spiller and Freddy ran as well against our opponents as our opponents ran on us, we would have been 13-3. That's a fact.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not advocating not drafting a QB or looking at other, better options. I am advocating common sense and reason besides, "cut him anyone we draft will be better"

[Dibs]

 

If Spiller and Freddy ran as well against our opponents as our opponents ran on us, we would have been 13-3. That's a fact.

 

 

They kinda did....

 

Bills 2012 rushing yards = 2217

Bills 2012 rushing yards allowed = 2333

 

Bills 2012 rushing Y/A = 5.0

Bills 2012 rushing Y/A allowed = 5.0

 

 

I don't understand all of the Fitz posturing.

There seems to be no debate that Fitz is not minimally a good QB. Who really cares if he is horrible, bad or just plain average? None of those can win us a SB.....so time to move on.

[QCity]

Now people are starting to claim Fitz has a strong downfield throwing arm. I think this board started drinking too early today...

[KOKBILLS]

Now people are starting to claim Fitz has a strong downfield throwing arm. I think this board started drinking too early today...

 

Well...At least it's not boring right?

[Bronc24]

 

 

There was a magical time when we had two good WR's. It was 2009. The sun was shining, and we could beat single coverage down the field. The result?

 

 

If he has a noodle arm, how did he throw it 50 yards down the field? I assume it was blind luck that forced the ball down the field, or maybe a seagull grabbed it and dropped it into TO's hands.

 

You're argument is invalid because he can throw 50 yards if it's open. It's proven. There's no flukes with arm strength, either you have it or you don't. He has it.

 

This, alone, speaks volumes. Why didn't you include the more recent picks vs the Giants in 2011? Wide open Stevie, Fitz under threw him twice. Cost us the game, as he admitted after.

 

 

Classic hater response! What reason for the clinically dense...better coaching?

 

Fitz wasn't the biggest reason the team went 6-10 again last year. While I'm not denying Fitz did suck last season, particularly at running the 2 min drill all season. Four passing downs and out against the pathetic Titans defense to lose the game. An INT in the end zone against the Dolphins, but NVM that the rookie WR who should have never been the primary receiver as he had never even run that play before in practice (according to SJ) ran the wrong route. THAT IS BAD COACHING! NVM that the Bills moronic HC kept putting the focus on winning every game on a substandard, broken QB.

 

However, I do recall Fitz playing lights out during a few games back in 2010 against the Ravens 37-34 / Steelers in OT, and almost winning against the Steelers if not for a dropped pass in the end zone by SJ. (the Steelers went 12-4 that year and went to the SB) Fitz threw for 29-43 for 382 yards 4 TD's against that vaunted Ravens defense. (The Ravens went 12-4 in 2010). I also recall the Bills starting 5-1 in 2011, with Fitz going 27- 40 for 369 yards against the Patriots in week three for a win that sent every Bills fan everywhere into delirium. So I know he had some ability to play well at that time!

 

2010, and the first half of 2011 When opposing defenses didn't know every Bills passing play by heart and knew exactly which player the ball was going to on almost every passing play. its a totally different story when the opposing defense knows what you are going to do before you do it. (AKA Titans) I also recall against the Jets, that their DB's knew the Bills passing plays / routes better then the Bills receivers did. It also doesn't help win games to make a substandard QB, and the passing game the focus.rather then the running game. Especially when you have two of the best RB's in the league.

 

How about the haters be patient to wait and see what this new HC does with the QB situation. Fitz may still suck, just like Trent Edwards did after Gailey picked him to start in 2010. OH WAIT! You mean that supposed superstar QB Guru who didn't know the difference between Brian Brohn, Fitz and Trent Edwards, and then chose Edwards? What I'm saying is, give Marrone a chance to sort things out!

 

 

BTW, improving the defense should allow any QB to play better, when the QB isn't always trying to play from behind game after game.

 

Yea, noodle arm...50+ yard pass

 

I remember my ex wife being great in bed in 2010 as well, but that doesn't excuse her for being a total b** ch. saying he was "not the biggest reason", as you state, means he is still a reason, correct? If you've ever coached (I have for twenty five years, successfully), you would know that you don't defend what the other team is incapable of doing. Our QB cannot throw deep, so the Jets saw no need to defend it. Same with every other team.

 

I plan on letting Marrone sort things out. By cutting that lame duck of a QB.

 

Its more then obvious to me that Fitz is the best QB the Bills currently have on their roster.

 

While TJ has some equal stats to Fitz, he played on a better Seahawks team and sucked there or they wouldn't have traded him away. Plus, I recall reading that in every game when the onus was on the QB to win TJ folded like a house of cards. Who knows if he read a defense, set protections, and can get rid of the ball to the open receiver in 2 seconds like Fitz can. Gailey must have thought Fitz, AND Tyler Thigpen were better or TJ would have been active at least one game last season.

 

JaMarcus Russell can throw the ball 100+ yards, that doesn't mean he is worth a crap...

 

OK, so in one post, you blame coaching (see above), but now Gailey knew what he was doing by picking Fitz over TJax? It seems Gailey sucks only when it's convenient to your argument.

 

 

 

 

Don't care, our O-line wasn't as miraculous as people think. We had to throw the ball within two seconds of the play starting and our QB was getting smashed every play. Just because our guy has a quick release, doesn't make our o-line nasty.

 

 

 

Except, when you talk about arm strength that is the entire point of the characteristic. How far and fast you can throw the ball. They aren't talking about accuracy, but arm strength when they call him noodle arm. The same noodle arm who has proven he can throw the balll 50+ yards, and still people say he can't get the ball 20 yards down the field. Which is wrong and misguided.

 

If you can throw an NFL ball 58 yards with any kind of speed, which I'm absolutely sure you can not, why are you sitting on TBD instead of trying out for the Bills? Is it because the starter is better than you in every other category? Normally, I wouldn't call out someone who is criticizing and tell them to shut up unless they can do better, but you opened the floodgates with your arm strength "stat."

 

"I can run a 4.4 40, big deal, CJ isn't that good; it's not all about speed"

 

There's an example of how stupid someone looks when they try to turn an argument into a different one after they lose by using an unbelievable personal anecdote.

 

tl;dr he has arm strength, go back to your RF voodoo doll until the next punching bag plays for the Bills and disappoints you.

 

Any video evidence from 2012 to back up your claim? By NFL standards, he does NOT have arm strength. Every QB coming out in the draft can throw the ball 58 yards. Do they all have strong arms? By your standard, yes....by NFL standards, no.

 

Keep setting your bar really low. Then when Fitz leads us to 5 wins over the bottom feeders of the league, you can say, "See! We won and Fitz threw for 3 TDs!"

 

If we keep Fitz, I and others here will see it for what it is. A team mired in mediocrity for the foreseeable future.

[truth on hold]

 

 

There was a magical time when we had two good WR's. It was 2009. The sun was shining, and we could beat single coverage down the field. The result?

 

 

If he has a noodle arm, how did he throw it 50 yards down the field? I assume it was blind luck that forced the ball down the field, or maybe a seagull grabbed it and dropped it into TO's hands.

 

You're argument is invalid because he can throw 50 yards if it's open. It's proven. There's no flukes with arm strength, either you have it or you don't. He has it.

Id bring back TO before keep fitz

[KOKBILLS]

Id bring back TO before keep fitz

 

[thewildrabbit]

This, alone, speaks volumes. Why didn't you include the more recent picks vs the Giants in 2011? Wide open Stevie, Fitz under threw him twice. Cost us the game, as he admitted after.

 

I remember my ex wife being great in bed in 2010 as well, but that doesn't excuse her for being a total b** ch. saying he was "not the biggest reason", as you state, means he is still a reason, correct? If you've ever coached (I have for twenty five years, successfully), you would know that you don't defend what the other team is incapable of doing. Our QB cannot throw deep, so the Jets saw no need to defend it. Same with every other team.

 

Sorry for your problems bro.

 

But yea, Fitz was a big problem last year as he couldn't even run the 2 min drill properly. But then, neither could anybody else on the team save Fred Jackson. Again, that is poor coaching! Can Fitz can throw deep? Or is it just his O line still doesn't always give him enough protection, and allow him the time to do so. I dunno, but I suspect Marrone will find out and let us know.

 

What I do know is that Fitz has an ability to get rid of the ball in 3 seconds or under and still takes a bunch of hits just after the ball is gone.

 

I plan on letting Marrone sort things out. By cutting that lame duck of a QB.

 

OK, so in one post, you blame coaching (see above), but now Gailey knew what he was doing by picking Fitz over TJax? It seems Gailey sucks only when it's convenient to your argument.

 

Gailey did have plenty of faults as I see things and perhaps his biggest fault was looking at Ryan Fitzpatrick and visualizing Tom Brady. He knew what he had in Fitz and Thigpen because he watched both run his offense. I honestly have no idea why he never even gave TJ a chance last year. I can only assume TJ never fully learned the scheme. Gailey still sucks even when it is convenient to my argument.

 

Any video evidence from 2012 to back up your claim? By NFL standards, he does NOT have arm strength. Every QB coming out in the draft can throw the ball 58 yards. Do they all have strong arms? By your standard, yes....by NFL standards, no.

 

I would think if Fitz can't make all the NFL throws he simply wouldn't have gotten the money he got, and he wouldn't be an NFL starter, and or he would have been benched. I highly doubt it was all Fitz that was the problem in the offensive passing game.

 

Keep setting your bar really low. Then when Fitz leads us to 5 wins over the bottom feeders of the league, you can say, "See! We won and Fitz threw for 3 TDs!"

 

If we keep Fitz, I and others here will see it for what it is. A team mired in mediocrity for the foreseeable future.

I'm almost kinda hoping they cut or bench Fitz now. Because I can't wait until you haters see what Tavaris Jackson, Tyler Thigpen or a rookie QB looks like behind that supposed vaunted that O line. Particularly on the right side.

[machine gun kelly]

He'll get his contract restructured. He'll do it b/c the leverage the Bills have is we can cut you to be a back up, or you take a haircut and you can compete for the starting position. If you achieve so many wins we'll incentivize your contract. Face it Fitz, you won't anywhere in this league with your record, but with us you'll compete against a rookie, and TJ. There is a good chance you can groom a roookie if you play well, and have a couple of years as a starter and rehab your career.

 

Sound like what they are saying. The Bills get more cap they can spend on one of their needs in free agency, and Fitz gets one last chance to compete for the starting position.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

There seems to be no debate that Fitz is not minimally a good QB. Who really cares if he is horrible, bad or just plain average? None of those can win us a SB.....so time to move on.

 

A fair question. Are you open to a fair answer?

 

We should all care, because contrary to TBD popular opinion, it's not so easy to find a QB who can play at an average level in the NFL.

It's much easier to find a QB who is outright bad, and cinchy to find a QB who is horrible.

 

It may not be possible to win a Superbowl today with a QB who is not elite, or playing at an elite level that year, but it's quite possible to win games and playoffs with a QB who is average.

 

That's not to say we shouldn't try to move on and improve to an elite QB (as SF may have done).

It's just to say you don't throw your average QB in the trash whilst trying to improve.

You try to put him in a better position to avoid mistakes and play to his strengths (as SF did with Smith last year), and you throw out your bad and horrible QB.

[Bronc24]

 

I'm almost kinda hoping they cut or bench Fitz now. Because I can't wait until you haters see what Tavaris Jackson, Tyler Thigpen or a rookie QB looks like behind that supposed vaunted that O line. Particularly on the right side.

 

I hate, and yes it is truly a hate, Fitzpatrick the QB because he cannot get us to the playoffs. I wish I were wrong. I wish he'd prove me wrong. I wish he'd win us a Superbowl. I'd gladly eat that crow and admit I was wrong. But I'm not.

 

As for the personal issues, no worries bro. Happily married to a woman 19 years younger than me, just bought a new house and expecting our first child. Life cannot be better. Appreciate your concern.

[KOKBILLS]

A fair question. Are you open to a fair answer?

 

We should all care, because contrary to TBD popular opinion, it's not so easy to find a QB who can play at an average level in the NFL.

It's much easier to find a QB who is outright bad, and cinchy to find a QB who is horrible.

 

It may not be possible to win a Superbowl today with a QB who is not elite, or playing at an elite level that year, but it's quite possible to win games and playoffs with a QB who is average.

 

That's not to say we shouldn't try to move on and improve to an elite QB (as SF may have done).

It's just to say you don't throw your average QB in the trash whilst trying to improve.

You try to put him in a better position to avoid mistakes and play to his strengths (as SF did with Smith last year), and you throw out your bad and horrible QB.

 

Fitz is not average...He's below average...His production stats may reach the average level at times...But the turnovers counteract that...He's a turnover machine...The most turnovers of ANY NFL QB in the last 3 years combined...The most!...And three years is a very good sample to judge from...If Fitz was more careful with the ball he would be average, or a little better...The fact that he's good for 1.5 turnovers per start on average makes him a below average QB...And it's not that hard to find a below average QB...

 

The Bills tried to put Fitz in a better situation for his skills...And he was still a turnover machine...Not to mention the 2-3 passes per game that should have been intercepted...You, and the few stragglers left here, are overvaluing Fitz the exact same way Chan and Buddy did...You're hoping for something that a massive amount of career evidence says is impossible...Or at least very improbable...There is no reason to keep Fitz...The Bills can do much, much better...Easier said than done? Perhaps...But it's still true...

[Dibs]

A fair question. Are you open to a fair answer?

 

We should all care, because contrary to TBD popular opinion, it's not so easy to find a QB who can play at an average level in the NFL.

It's much easier to find a QB who is outright bad, and cinchy to find a QB who is horrible.

 

It may not be possible to win a Superbowl today with a QB who is not elite, or playing at an elite level that year, but it's quite possible to win games and playoffs with a QB who is average.

 

That's not to say we shouldn't try to move on and improve to an elite QB (as SF may have done).

It's just to say you don't throw your average QB in the trash whilst trying to improve.

You try to put him in a better position to avoid mistakes and play to his strengths (as SF did with Smith last year), and you throw out your bad and horrible QB.

 

If he is not good enough to win a SB(which I think we all agree that he isn't)......and he stays on the roster, it won't be to be the long term starter....it will be at best as a caretaker QB until whomever we get is ready to start.

Similarly, if he gets cut....it won't make a great deal of difference unless we manage to put together a much improved team(particularly defense) in one off-season. The winning difference between an "average" Fitz and a "below average" <insert name> is not likely to be greater than a 2 game difference.....i.e. 4 wins instead of 6 wins.

 

As I said originally, what difference does it make if he is horrible, bad or average? If he stays we are stuck with what he is.....and if he is replaced by a horrible/bad/average QB we are quibbling over a 2 game difference in a losing season.

 

Waste of time if you ask me.

[BuffaloFan68]

There is no reason to keep either Fitz or Thiggy on as players. I might keep Fitz on for coaching & mentoring but that is about it.

[thewildrabbit]

Fitz is not average...He's below average...His production stats may reach the average level at times...But the turnovers counteract that...He's a turnover machine...The most turnovers of ANY NFL QB in the last 3 years combined...The most!...And three years is a very good sample to judge from...If Fitz was more careful with the ball he would be average, or a little better...The fact that he's good for 1.5 turnovers per start on average makes him a below average QB...And it's not that hard to find a below average QB...

 

The Bills tried to put Fitz in a better situation for his skills...And he was still a turnover machine...Not to mention the 2-3 passes per game that should have been intercepted...You, and the few stragglers left here, are overvaluing Fitz the exact same way Chan and Buddy did...You're hoping for something that a massive amount of career evidence says is impossible...Or at least very improbable...There is no reason to keep Fitz...The Bills can do much, much better...Easier said than done? Perhaps...But it's still true...

Not defending Fitz here because he did suck ass last season. Just consider the teams he has been on during his time in Buffalo. The worst defenses in the NFL, crappy receiver corps, bad scheme, bad play calling.

 

How soon fans forget what it was like with Trent Edwards / JP Losman starting! Fitz IS a better talent then Trent Edwards / JP Losman! But he has played on worse teams.. The problem was Gailey kept thinking he had Drew Brees and just kept calling pass plays all game long. Always putting the QB is bad situations because he was almost always playing from behind.

 

Frankly, I just don't shiv a git what Fitz did under the moron Gailey. I want to see what Marrone can do with him. If he stays broken and can't make all throws like so many here are stating. Then by all means let Marrone crap can his arse in the off season!

[Dibs]

Not defending Fitz here because he did suck ass last season. Just consider the teams he has been on during his time in Buffalo. The worst defenses in the NFL, crappy receiver corps, bad scheme, bad play calling.

 

How soon fans forget what it was like with Trent Edwards / JP Losman starting! Fitz IS a better talent thAn Trent Edwards / JP Losman! But he has played on worse teams.. The problem was Gailey kept thinking he had Drew Brees and just kept calling pass plays all game long. Always putting the QB is bad situations because he was almost always playing from behind.

 

Frankly, I just don't shiv a git what Fitz did under the moron Gailey. I want to see what Marrone can do with him. If he stays broken and can't make all throws like so many here are stating. Then by all means let Marrone crap can his arse in the off season!

 

His base talent, wasted talent, lack of talent, potential talent & future talent are all relatively irrelevant(under the assumption that nobody believes he can be the answer at QB)......it all will come down to the caponomics of the situation. If he re-structures he stays......if he doesn't he gets cut.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I don't care if they keep him, cut him, trade him, or shave him, just don't put him on the field as a starting quarterback, and I'm fine.

 

[TheFunPolice]

So they don't get cap relief from cutting ties to this mistake of a contract, but they DO save the $10 million in cash.

 

Someone else said it: this team sells a game to Toronto every year. They are not in a position to blow $10 million in cash for a guy that is clearly not worth that money.