Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Rome wasn't built in a day... It took HOU a while to turn into to what they are now. They focused on building their D through the draft with spectacular results.. Btw, I think you're 100% right about Shaub. However, HOU still won 11 games... Shucks, I'd love for us to reach that benchmark. Being just ONE player away from a superbowl appearance ain't a bad place to be. -I'm thinking if we take advantage of this defensive draft class, that might be us on the doorstep next year. True but their real turnaround came with Wade, which is what I'm hoping for in Pettine. Hopefully we do get some D-talent in here and we can get that explosive Defense but I still think it takes a year. As horrible as it would be getting the top pick is our best option in getting a franchise QB in here especially when we have much better options than in this years draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I say we finish at .500, which, sadly, would be better than the previous five or so years. Marone and Petine seem to be solid picks. The OC, on the other hand, seems, at first glance, to be a stretch. It also appears as if this team threw the baby out with the bathwater with all the assistant coaches. Could be a big mistake not bringing back our ST and OL coaches. Continuity is so important. I think last season burned me for good concerning ever having high hopes. Add that with continuity issues, a still dominant Pats* and a surging Dolphins, I would be pleasantly surprised with a winning season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 At best 7-9. I believe we're playing the AFC North, and NFC south next year. Good luck with us playing the Ravens, Steelers, Bengals, Pats twice, Atlanta, and Tampa on the upswing. The holes have already been written and without a QB, we're toast. We most likely will have better coaching, and get more out of our players. Best guess is 5-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Who was the last Bills QB to throw for 3,000+ yds and 23+TDs 3 seasons in a row? Yeah, Fitz is the ONLY reason we can't win more than 6 games. PTR Geez, it isn't always all about stats. Who really shivs a git if he throws for 4k yards 30+ TD's if he can't win games!! I used to be a fan of Fitz in 2010 after I watched him run for his life game after game, and he survived! Then he played so well in those OT games against the Ravens and Steelers. This year I watched in disbelief as Fitz tried to run the 2 min drill several times only to fall on his face hard. That game against the Titans Fitz had a little over a minute to go 60 yards for a FG and all he could do was go 4 and out against one of the worst defenses in the NFL....truly pathetic! I can only think that Fitz regressed badly under Gailey, who kept using the same plays and scheme that stopped working back in mid 2011. Perhaps Marrone can bring Fitz back to life as a suitable QB in a better run offense, who knows. (no pun intended) But yea, last years defense was the very worst part of the 2012 Bills, It certainly didn't help that Gailey couldn't find a way to get the run game working against the better teams tho. Probably because they only ran well out of passing formations, so if the passing game gets shut down, then so does the run game. Hopefully Marrone will build an offense that can get a 3rd and short by pounding the run game, rather then constantly airing it out all game long in any situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I can't believe there are any defenders of Nix or Fitz left. Nix spent our whole salary cap and 3 drafts to rebuild a defense and has the worst defense in the league to show for it. I can't even talk about Fitz anymore. Just, WOW, I guess. not saying a totally disagree with you. but we have 20 mil in cap space, plus what we have saved in our cuts, plus a roll over from last year. all that together puts us at about 35-40 mil in cap space. we are actually in a great position there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 for the first time in over 20 years following this team, i am completely devoid of optimism heading into next season. if the new head coach can look at the team and say "we have no qb, no wide reciever, no defensive backfield, no linebackers, and may need to rebuild our offensive line," then that tells me we're in rebuilding mode. the problem is, the guy who built this team that needs to be rebuilt is still our gm. and the succession plan in place is to hand this over to his protege. the new head coach we hired was a .500 coach in the big east. this isnt harbaugh coming in, this isn't carrol coming in, this is someone who was completely average at coaching in a completely average conference. the league is built on offense, and our offensive coordinator has next to no experience as an offensive coordinator on the pro level, he is young, he is wet behind the ears, and he doesn't inspire confidence in me. i know coordinators don't usually come with a sterling pedigree, but generally they at least come from a solid coaching tree--ours does not. in addressing the quarterback situation, we're still inviting fitz back to "an open competition." he is terrible, and anyone who watched last year and thought differently is a fool, plain and simply. if last season happened before the era of FANTASY FOOTBALL, ryan fitzpatrick would be out of the league today. however, because buffalo is a small market without a lot of nationally televised games, and because fitz put up middle of the road (respectable) numbers, he is viewed as "an adequate backup." he is not even that. we resigned tavaris jackson, who was an unrestricted free agent. meaning, we TARGETED tavaris jackson as a qb for next year. 30 year old tavaris jackson who had middling success in minnesota is going to be the bills qb of the future? or, the alternative, we draft a qb. the problem with that scenario is, however, if we draft a qb and he is middle of the road (dalton,) than we will be like the bengals, with a 9-7 ceiling and a potential divisional round game every few years to get excited about, for the next decade. if we draft a qb and he's terrible, we will have to stick with him for 3 years before rebuilding again. unfortunately, we're in the worst possible position. just enough talent to not necessitate cutting everyone on the roster, not enough core talent to build a team that can win a super bowl. we may be staring down the barrel of a "rebuilding" project that sees us hover at 6 wins for this year and next, and maybe peak with a 9 win wild card season, until our defensive line retires, cj hits 30, and it's time to rebuild again. with that being said, however, having 0 optimism may be a good thing. if we win 4 games, ill have been expecting it and won't be dissapointed. if we win 9 and steal a wild card, it will be an amazing ride. you're a little late to the party but welcome aboard. Until we have a legit QB we aint doin nuttin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Can the 2013 Bills get away from this crowd? @BaxFootballGuru Worst #NFL road rec since ’02: #Lions (17-71), #Cardinals (22-66), #Raiders (24-64), #Rams (24-63-1), #Browns (26-62), #Bills (28-60) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 You did see how many points Defenses that were 100 times better than The Bills Defense gave up to Franchise caliber QB's in the Playoffs right? You witnessed that...Did you not? Until The Bills actually have a QB, it's the biggest need...And there is not even a close 2nd...Period...End of story... The defense was not just bad. It was incredibly bad. End of story? No. People are seriously hung up on the QB position around here. Building a championship team involves a lot more than a single position on the playing field. And defense still wins championships. As for the offense, you cannot be consistently good without a consistently good defense. Even Brady has been unable to consistently win big games with a poor defense. Now, I know we don't have the greatest caliber QB, but we can still win with an average one. All he needs is some talent around him. Yes, we have Stevie, to throw to but who else? Donald Jones?.....see ya! Give me a top notch TE or WR that isn't injured half the freakin season and suddenly a Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't as bad as everyone thinks. Give me a guy like Matt Barkley and the future could look even better, yes, but don't expect a QB like that to come right in and perform better than a wily veteran like Fitz. Addition by subtraction only works when you replace that talent with something better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 The defense was not just bad. It was incredibly bad. End of story? No. People are seriously hung up on the QB position around here. Building a championship team involves a lot more than a single position on the playing field. And defense still wins championships. As for the offense, you cannot be consistently good without a consistently good defense. Even Brady has been unable to consistently win big games with a poor defense. Now, I know we don't have the greatest caliber QB, but we can still win with an average one. All he needs is some talent around him. Yes, we have Stevie, to throw to but who else? Donald Jones?.....see ya! Give me a top notch TE or WR that isn't injured half the freakin season and suddenly a Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't as bad as everyone thinks. Give me a guy like Matt Barkley and the future could look even better, yes, but don't expect a QB like that to come right in and perform better than a wily veteran like Fitz. Addition by subtraction only works when you replace that talent with something better. Everyone is hung up on finding one player to fix the offense as opposed to 11 to fix the D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 The defense was not just bad. It was incredibly bad. End of story? No. People are seriously hung up on the QB position around here. Building a championship team involves a lot more than a single position on the playing field. And defense still wins championships. As for the offense, you cannot be consistently good without a consistently good defense. Even Brady has been unable to consistently win big games with a poor defense. Now, I know we don't have the greatest caliber QB, but we can still win with an average one. All he needs is some talent around him. Yes, we have Stevie, to throw to but who else? Donald Jones?.....see ya! Give me a top notch TE or WR that isn't injured half the freakin season and suddenly a Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't as bad as everyone thinks..... You are correct.....building a championship team involves a lot more than a single position on the playing field. You are however incorrect.....defense can no longer be considered to win championships......and the odds that you can win a championship without a franchise QB are extremely low. Looking at the stats of Championship winning teams(& their QBs) shows this to be true.....and not just some random opinion that I might have. Read through this thread & you'll see how the modern NFL has changed. How top QBs are a vital commodity.....and how teams with poorly performing defenses regularly win the SB now a days. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/155525-how-to-win-a-super-bowl/?do=findComment&comment=2722647 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 The defense was not just bad. It was incredibly bad. End of story? No. People are seriously hung up on the QB position around here. Building a championship team involves a lot more than a single position on the playing field. And defense still wins championships. As for the offense, you cannot be consistently good without a consistently good defense. Even Brady has been unable to consistently win big games with a poor defense. Now, I know we don't have the greatest caliber QB, but we can still win with an average one. All he needs is some talent around him. Yes, we have Stevie, to throw to but who else? Donald Jones?.....see ya! Give me a top notch TE or WR that isn't injured half the freakin season and suddenly a Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't as bad as everyone thinks. Give me a guy like Matt Barkley and the future could look even better, yes, but don't expect a QB like that to come right in and perform better than a wily veteran like Fitz. Addition by subtraction only works when you replace that talent with something better. Yawn... Ryan Fitzpatrick IS as bad as people on this board think he is...As a matter of fact there is a good chance he's worse and that Gailey got all he could out of him...Some of us around here were adamant 3 years ago that he was never going to be good enough, yet we're still having this discussion?... And Defense still wins Championships huh? Not if you don't have an excellent QB it doesn't...Of course The Bills need to get better on Defense...You will not find one single Bills fan that disagrees with that general statement...But the fastest road to improvement for this team is to improve the QB situation over Fitz who ranked 27th in Total QB Rating last year...No one said it's going to be easy to find a great QB...But to find one that is better than Fitz is not going to be all that difficult either... You do realize that over the past 3 years, INT's and lost fumbles combined, Fitz is #1 in the NFL in turnovers...#1...He had 67 combined turnovers...54 INT's and 23 Fumbles (13 lost) in that span...So...considering we all know that QB is the most important position on any NFL team...And considering the Bills have the #1 turnover machine over a three year span as their starting QB...You're saying that QB is not the #1 need on this team?...OK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Everyone is hung up on finding one player to fix the offense as opposed to 11 to fix the D Well, Fitz is bad. No doubt really. o His avg yards/attempt is 26 or 27 in league with QBs having > 100 attempts. That's pretty bad. o I checked and Spiller/Jackson caught a lot of balls, but those 2 RBs accounted for approx 26 % of Fitz completions. Throwing 5-7 yards to an on-covered back coming out of the backfield is great, and most certainly padded his stats. Getting the ball to Spiler is fine, but really covered up the problem which is Fitz can't really throw. I agree that the D was a huge issue, and getting that unit to perform even average, or somewhere around middle of the pack re: yards / game and points / game would be huge. Given a QB who can actually throw downfield at ALL, and doesn't mess all over himself at the end of games with improved D may actually get the Bills a sniff at the playoffs. IMHO. Gailey no doubt cost them a couple games also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paupmvp1995 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Yawn... Ryan Fitzpatrick IS as bad as people on this board think he is...As a matter of fact there is a good chance he's worse and that Gailey got all he could out of him...Some of us around here were adamant 3 years ago that he was never going to be good enough, yet we're still having this discussion?... And Defense still wins Championships huh? Not if you don't have an excellent QB it doesn't...Of course The Bills need to get better on Defense...You will not find one single Bills fan that disagrees with that general statement...But the fastest road to improvement for this team is to improve the QB situation over Fitz who ranked 27th in Total QB Rating last year...No one said it's going to be easy to find a great QB...But to find one that is better than Fitz is not going to be all that difficult either... You do realize that over the past 3 years, INT's and lost fumbles combined, Fitz is #1 in the NFL in turnovers...#1...He had 67 combined turnovers...54 INT's and 23 Fumbles (13 lost) in that span...So...considering we all know that QB is the most important position on any NFL team...And considering the Bills have the #1 turnover machine over a three year span as their starting QB...You're saying that QB is not the #1 need on this team?...OK... Anybody who watched this past season's playoffs should realize that you need AT LEAST a very good QB to have a chance to win a championship. I think we all know that Fitzie is not that. But I am a little bit excited about seeing what TJack can do with a coaching staff that will give him an opportunity to compete. His arm is way stronger than Fitzies, and that in itself is an improvement because it will allow us to stretch the field a whole lot more. And the guy also has some mobility. Is he RGlll or Vick in his prime? Probably not. But he can move the chains w his feet. One of the worst traits of Fitz was that he could absolutely NOT make a play when the pocket started to collapse. He would usually kind of fall forward into the rushing D lineman, and never kept his head up to look downfield. Jackson is a bigger man, and should be able to make things happen a lot more in those type of situations. I am not saying that Jackson is any type of long term answer. But given how poorly Gailey was in evaluating his personnel, I think Jackson has more game than a lot of people on this board give him credit for. And in addition, I think that the odds of Fitzie making the opening day roster even with a restructured contract are less than 50/50. I think that unless Fitz dramatically improves his accuracy that Marone and staff will realize what most of us on this board know, that Fitz is simply not good enuf to win many games in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 After looking at this list of superbowl QBs I think anyone can see that with some exceptions, having a very good QB has been necessary in recent history to make it to the big show. http://football.about.com/cs/superbowl/a/sbquarterbacks.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 In the past two years, Buddy has shown increasing feeble-mindedness when it comes to making personnel additions... He can't draft, and neither him, or his head coach had the capacity to assess talent. Last draft everyone who wanted their signal-caller got one. The QB talent was so abundant, it was scandalous. -one franchise even picked up TWO immediate NFL starters. For Months now, I've been sayin that this draft is the POLAR OPPOSITE. -Oh, there's some very good quarterbacks to choose from, but, they're on DEFENSE, not offense. I agree with everyone who has posted that 'we need a QB' Because it's the absolute, undeniable, truth. However, there's MAYBE two kids that can trade blows with anyone in last year's class. As desperate as we are, QB is a position we simply cannot afford to miss on. Tyler Wilson, IMO, would be the guy, if you have to pull the trigger. -Small hands, included. Smaller hooks are fine if you're accurate, make good decisions, and put a death-grip on the football. It also doesn't hurt to have a bazooka-arm, which Wilson does. After him though, the dropoff is sharp. -La. Tech's Colby Cameron is a later-round prospect that I find very interesting, but he'll Take time to develop. In the meantime though, Why not weaponize our D with LB, S, and SS? This draft presents an opportunity to significantly improve a major aspect of our game. Why not Jump at it? So far, I'm really struggling to put a mock together, but this draft I'd take a minimum of 3DB's along with 2WR's, and maybe 1QB prospect. I just don't see the point in reaching for another QB let-down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Anybody who watched this past season's playoffs should realize that you need AT LEAST a very good QB to have a chance to win a championship. I think we all know that Fitzie is not that. But I am a little bit excited about seeing what TJack can do with a coaching staff that will give him an opportunity to compete. His arm is way stronger than Fitzies, and that in itself is an improvement because it will allow us to stretch the field a whole lot more. And the guy also has some mobility. Is he RGlll or Vick in his prime? Probably not. But he can move the chains w his feet. One of the worst traits of Fitz was that he could absolutely NOT make a play when the pocket started to collapse. He would usually kind of fall forward into the rushing D lineman, and never kept his head up to look downfield. Jackson is a bigger man, and should be able to make things happen a lot more in those type of situations. I am not saying that Jackson is any type of long term answer. But given how poorly Gailey was in evaluating his personnel, I think Jackson has more game than a lot of people on this board give him credit for. And in addition, I think that the odds of Fitzie making the opening day roster even with a restructured contract are less than 50/50. I think that unless Fitz dramatically improves his accuracy that Marone and staff will realize what most of us on this board know, that Fitz is simply not good enuf to win many games in the NFL. Jackson's had 2 opportunities to show he belongs as a NFL starter and couldn't get it done. Believing he's now capable to start in Buffalo with a new, shiny, and unknown coaching staff is complete madness. He's 17-17 as a starter, offers less than a 60% career completion rate, is about 1:1 in TD to INT rate, and played the majority of snaps in 2 of his 6 seasons outside Buffalo. QB's just don't get markedly better after 7 seasons in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 QB's just don't get markedly better after 7 seasons in the NFL Tell that to Alex Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 In the past two years, Buddy has shown increasing feeble-mindedness when it comes to making personnel additions... He can't draft, and neither him, or his head coach had the capacity to assess talent. Last draft everyone who wanted their signal-caller got one. The QB talent was so abundant, it was scandalous. -one franchise even picked up TWO immediate NFL starters. For Months now, I've been sayin that this draft is the POLAR OPPOSITE. -Oh, there's some very good quarterbacks to choose from, but, they're on DEFENSE, not offense. I agree with everyone who has posted that 'we need a QB' Because it's the absolute, undeniable, truth. However, there's MAYBE two kids that can trade blows with anyone in last year's class. As desperate as we are, QB is a position we simply cannot afford to miss on. Tyler Wilson, IMO, would be the guy, if you have to pull the trigger. -Small hands, included. Smaller hooks are fine if you're accurate, make good decisions, and put a death-grip on the football. It also doesn't hurt to have a bazooka-arm, which Wilson does. After him though, the dropoff is sharp. -La. Tech's Colby Cameron is a later-round prospect that I find very interesting, but he'll Take time to develop. In the meantime though, Why not weaponize our D with LB, S, and SS? This draft presents an opportunity to significantly improve a major aspect of our game. Why not Jump at it? So far, I'm really struggling to put a mock together, but this draft I'd take a minimum of 3DB's along with 2WR's, and maybe 1QB prospect. I just don't see the point in reaching for another QB let-down. Buddy Nix put this franchise in a bind when he didn't attempt to get any credible qb prospect on the roster during his tenure. But as much as we put a lot of emphasis on the qb position Nix's biggest failings is his drafting in general. The only impact player he has drafted in three years is Spiller. I can't think of one lower round pick that turned into a meaningful contributor. Nix has starkly demonstrated the difference of having a scout mind-set compared to a more complex GM mind-set. A scout ranks players while a GM has to put together a roster, knowing which positions to value over other positions. Someone once made the apt comparison between a checkers and a chess player. Many people are saying that there are few good qb prospects in this draft. I don't agree with the assessment. Although there aren't qbs in this draft who can immediately step in as a starter, as there were last year, there are a number of good prospects who with some developmental time will be good qbs. The qb I am touting is Tyler Wilson. Because of the turmoil in his program last year and because of injuries he didn't play as well as he did his junior year. My preference if it can be executed is to trade down and then select your favored qb prospect. With the added pick or picks acquired in the trade down you can still address other needs. The problem with that scenario is that we have a GM who believes in standing pat and not maneuvering around. The stodgy GM's lack of creativity has not gotten us anywhere so far. Why not get out of your tight comfort zone and try a more flexible approach that might prove to be useful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I like the new HC, new DC, but the OC has done nothing in the NFL and again we are going to fail to address QB, but its because we bypassed talent in previous years. It is going to be SOSDY at OBD for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Nix got TJ. Does that count? Everybody hates Fitz. Somebody here said it was Gailey. I sat here every game and said don't call that play again and he did. Def. sat there and killed us. Everybody knew what we were going to do. LB, WR, TE and S is what we need to help Fitz. We have him for another year so accept it. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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