keepthefaith Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 really? $10/hour over a full work year equates to $20k...so a small business increasing wages $2/hr for it's 5 workers incurs this additional expense. all other similar businesses do as well. and prices go up marginally to compensate. alternatively, carve out an exception for businesses employing less than say, 10 employees as has been done on other labor issues (eg "right to work"). irrespective of that, it's a moral question from my perspective: should all full time workers be paid subsistence wages thus eliminating the need for taxpayer support of these workers? my answer is a very clear "yes". I don't think raising the minimum wage saves taxpayers a nickel on programs for the poor. Many businesses can't raise prices as they operate in markets where prices are always declining, like many businesses that sell technology. Frankly I think that states should continue to set their own minimum wage as there is a big disparity in the economies and cost of living in many states and cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I don't think raising the minimum wage saves taxpayers a nickel on programs for the poor. Many businesses can't raise prices as they operate in markets where prices are always declining, like many businesses that sell technology. Frankly I think that states should continue to set their own minimum wage as there is a big disparity in the economies and cost of living in many states and cities. I don't think raising the minimum wage saves taxpayers a nickel on programs for the poor. Many businesses can't raise prices as they operate in markets where prices are always declining, like many businesses that sell technology. Frankly I think that states should continue to set their own minimum wage as there is a big disparity in the economies and cost of living in many states and cities. i think it would if the minimum wage was set at a livable level. and $9 probably isn't that (especially without health insurance). but this requires a true paradigm shift in the thinking of americans. admittedly, it's a hard sell (x to those making minimum wage now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 really? $10/hour over a full work year equates to $20k...so a small business increasing wages $2/hr for it's 5 workers incurs this additional expense. all other similar businesses do as well. and prices go up marginally to compensate. alternatively, carve out an exception for businesses employing less than say, 10 employees as has been done on other labor issues (eg "right to work"). irrespective of that, it's a moral question from my perspective: should all full time workers be paid subsistence wages thus eliminating the need for taxpayer support of these workers? my answer is a very clear "yes". Oh, so Obama is proposing a cut in welfare programs at the same time as minimum wage goes up? I guess I missed that part. I don't have a problem with a higher minimum wage per se, but the current left wing power structure wants absolutely nothing to do with getting people off reliance on the federal government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 . and prices go up marginally to compensate. All prices go up, cost of living increases, minimum wage is too low again. rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Oh, so Obama is proposing a cut in welfare programs at the same time as minimum wage goes up? I guess I missed that part. I don't have a problem with a higher minimum wage per se, but the current left wing power structure wants absolutely nothing to do with getting people off reliance on the federal government. Not to mention, it is very frustrating to hear a liberal say that companies should pay higher wages simply because the company has the money. Liberals are so free and easy with other people's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 All prices go up, cost of living increases, minimum wage is too low again. rinse and repeat. All prices go up, cost of living increases, minimum wage is too low again. rinse and repeat. you're making an invalid assumption that cost wil go up proportionallt to minimum wage increases. for these wages to increase 25% (7 to 9 dollars) shouldn't result in anywhere near a 25% inc in production/service costs and thus shouldn't result in a large inc in the price of goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 you're making an invalid assumption that cost wil go up proportionallt to minimum wage increases. for these wages to increase 25% (7 to 9 dollars) shouldn't result in anywhere near a 25% inc in production/service costs and thus shouldn't result in a large inc in the price of goods. Why not, where would the money come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 you're making an invalid assumption that cost wil go up proportionallt to minimum wage increases. for these wages to increase 25% (7 to 9 dollars) shouldn't result in anywhere near a 25% inc in production/service costs and thus shouldn't result in a large inc in the price of goods. The minimum wage is 7.25, which is too high. In fact I will make the argument all MW laws do is lead to higher unemployment of younger people at a time where 60% of them are unemployed. If we can uncap this regulated wage the market would be flooded in a good way with employers hiring the unemployed for a wage they are worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 In 2011 73.9 million American workers age 16 and over were paid at hourly rates. That's 59.1 percent of all wage and salary earners. Of those hourly workers, 3.8 million (5.2%) worked for wages at or below the Federal standard. "Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about 1/5 of hourly-paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Several states have lower minimum wage rates for certain categories of workers, many have higher rates. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour about 23%earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3% of workers age 25 and over." US Bureau of Labor Statistics http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm So roughly one in twenty hourly-paid workers get minimum wage $7.25/hr... that's roughly one in 38 of all workers. A High School kid with a minimum wage job would make about $140 per week for 20 hours of work. That's not too shabby for a kid that's living at home, not paying room and board and learning the meaning of an honest day's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 In 2011 73.9 million American workers age 16 and over were paid at hourly rates. That's 59.1 percent of all wage and salary earners. Of those hourly workers, 3.8 million (5.2%) worked for wages at or below the Federal standard. "Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about 1/5 of hourly-paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Several states have lower minimum wage rates for certain categories of workers, many have higher rates. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour about 23%earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3% of workers age 25 and over." US Bureau of Labor Statistics http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm So roughly one in twenty hourly-paid workers get minimum wage $7.25/hr... that's roughly one in 38 of all workers. A High School kid with a minimum wage job would make about $140 per week for 20 hours of work. That's not too shabby for a kid that's living at home, not paying room and board and learning the meaning of an honest day's work. Yes, it's a false argument to make as one particular poster suggested that the hourly wage should be raised to support working families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Yes, it's a false argument to make as one particular poster suggested that the hourly wage should be raised to support working families. so it's ok for those 3% of workers who aren't kids yet make minimum wage to continue making $7.25/hr? is 3% of american workers over 25 a number you're comfortable with discarding to the junk heap of living standards? if it's so few people, why worry about increasing the cost of goods by raising wages? this entire line of argument is disingenuous. and why the arbitrary age of 25? can you not be head of household/primary bread winner before age 25? Why not, where would the money come from? because as a fraction of overall production costs in many industries, wages paid to low earning workers don't amount to much. how many 20% raises on workers making $7.25/hr equals a 2% raise for a worker making 7 figures? or a 2% increase in insurance premiums or electric rates, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 For the love of might. What the !@#$ about the 20 million Americans that are out of work and can't find a job? Nooooooooo! Don't look at that. See - over there - there's a million people who are destitute, I say - destitute! Throw THEM a life raft before I choke on my brie. Jesus H. Christ, every last person is supposed to make at least $50k a year? How many of those poor souls maybe have two jobs, or are working in the black market, or are going to school part time to better themselves, or are in family owned businesses, or their own startups, or any of a dozen other situations that could account for their status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 For the love of might. What the !@#$ about the 20 million Americans that are out of work and can't find a job? Nooooooooo! Don't look at that. See - over there - there's a million people who are destitute, I say - destitute! Throw THEM a life raft before I choke on my brie. Jesus H. Christ, every last person is supposed to make at least $50k a year? How many of those poor souls maybe have two jobs, or are working in the black market, or are going to school part time to better themselves, or are in family owned businesses, or their own startups, or any of a dozen other situations that could account for their status. people wouldn't need 2 jobs if they were paid a living wage for 1. then unemployment goes down. 2 birds with one stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) so it's ok for those 3% of workers who aren't kids yet make minimum wage to continue making $7.25/hr? Man, I sure miss the old days when people who didn't like their wage or job could do what they needed to find a better job with better pay. Seems like only yesterday you could go to the local community college to inexpensively learn a trade that would help you earn more money.Or even join the military for good pay, travel, health benefits and even a uniform. Not sure how people make it anymore knowing the only way they can earn more money is if the government forces their employer to pay them more money in the name of fairness. Edited February 20, 2013 by LABillzFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Man, I sure miss the old days when people who didn't like their wage or job could do what they needed to find a better job with better pay. Seems like only yesterday you could go to the local community college to inexpensively learn a trade that would help you earn more money.Or even join the military for good pay, travel, health benefits and even a uniform. Not sure how people make it anymore knowing the only way they can earn more money is if the government forces their employer to pay them more money in the name of fairness. When I was a teenager the minimum wage was $1.00 an hour. At different points the min. wage was raised to what it is now. Maybe now isn't the best time to raise the min. wage but it will trend up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 When I was a teenager the minimum wage was $1.00 an hour. At different points the min. wage was raised to what it is now. Maybe now isn't the best time to raise the min. wage but it will trend up. Of course it will trend up. But it shouldn't trend up because some liberal dumbass says it should simply because employers show a profit. That's the kind of dumbass thinking that makes Joe Biden look smart. No easy trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 That's pretty much it. The concepts of "fairness" and "morality" should not play any role in economic policy. What it does is take away all logic and substitutes it with one entities perception of fairness. That's simply illogical. That's why I say if there are extensive studies done from honest brokers, and the conclusion is that all in all there are more economic benefits for the economy, then I could be all in for that. Probably the best solution is to have one set of rules for certain types of corporations and another set of rules for small business. Of course I realize that people will circumvent the system, but I would say this general concept should be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 That's pretty much it. The concepts of "fairness" and "morality" should not play any role in economic policy. What it does is take away all logic and substitutes it with one entities perception of fairness. That's simply illogical. That's why I say if there are extensive studies done from honest brokers, and the conclusion is that all in all there are more economic benefits for the economy, then I could be all in for that. Probably the best solution is to have one set of rules for certain types of corporations and another set of rules for small business. Of course I realize that people will circumvent the system, but I would say this general concept should be considered. Terrible solution. Simply eliminate the federal minimum wage, and overtime pay. For $3, $4, $5 an hour there would be a lot more people working as opposed to $7.25 or heaven forbid $9.00. The government needs to eliminate medicare, social security and other entitlements. When private sector debt and asset prices come down, that destroys a lot of wealth, money and debt, which makes wealth more scarce and deflation is allowed to happen. What we need is banks to fail, which will lower prices, and therefore allow for these lower wages. We need to let the global melt down commence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Terrible solution. Simply eliminate the federal minimum wage, and overtime pay. For $3, $4, $5 an hour there would be a lot more people working as opposed to $7.25 or heaven forbid $9.00. The government needs to eliminate medicare, social security and other entitlements. When private sector debt and asset prices come down, that destroys a lot of wealth, money and debt, which makes wealth more scarce and deflation is allowed to happen. What we need is banks to fail, which will lower prices, and therefore allow for these lower wages. We need to let the global melt down commence. You can't even do a parody right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You can't even do a parody right. You'd think at least one of them would be funny simply by accident or luck. But no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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