Rockinon Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 I don't believe this. There will be no restructure. Fitz will either be here or he won't. Can't believe this has gone on for 8 pages.
paupmvp1995 Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 That's right, I'm going to defend Fitz... Now, I'm all onboard with trying to find that QB of the future, a franchise guy (even if it means drafting two QBs this year, whatever it takes)... And I'm fine with those saying Fitz would be a great backup but they don't want him starting (that's reasonable). But to those who are saying that he is absolutely horrible, shouldn't even be a backup (3rd stringer at best), etc. Well, I just have to assume you are not the "so-called" realists on the board. So, what is reality? Yes, I'm going to bring those damn stats into the discussion... In 2012 Fitz ranked: 18th in yards with 3,400 16th in completions with 306 18th in completion % with 60.6 (QBs with at least 100 Atts, i.e. starting QBs) 13th in TDs with 24 8th in Ints with 16 In 2011 Fitz ranked: 11th in yards with 3,832 6th in completions with 353 10th in comp. % at 62 (QBs with at least 100 Atts, i.e. starting QBs) 10th in TDs with 24 1st in Ints with 23 What do the stats seem to say? Fitz is an average starting QB in this league. Of course, we all want better than average, but to say he's not even good enough to be a backup is just ridiculous. The two things that jump out is that his stats regressed in 2012 and that he has thrown too many INTs over the past two years. But, with the defenses we have had, we were always playing from behind and Fitz had to force it more, which leads to picks. That doesn't excuse him from throwing that many picks, but it does factor in. By the way, Fitz's annual salary in 2012 ranked 18th among starting QBs. About where his stats rank him. So, if the FO got him to restructure, I would be more than happy to keep Fitz as backup and even let him compete for the starting job. What if we whiff on drafting a QB. Then what? And what FA could we bring in that would be a significant upgrade to Fitz? You could make a case for Alex Smith maybe (although I'm dubious of that) but after him, who? Fitz is a team guy, not a prima donna, so I don't think there would be any disruption in the locker room if he doesn't start. I would trust him coming into a game if the new starter went down. And not only is he smart, but he's been in the NFL 8 years and has started 74 games. How would that experience not be a help to a young QB learning the ropes? You are delusional. The stats do lie, because a whole lot of Fitzy's numbers were accumulated in garbage time. (See first Jets game as a prime example) And the rest of his yardage was on short crossing patterns, and dump offs to the RB's. We have absolutely no downfield passing game with Fitz. And the other big stat is that he was 6-19 in the last 25 games he started for us. Why would you want a QB with that kind of record on your roster? When the game is on the line, he almost never produces. Did you not watch this team play the past few years? Once teams figured out our 5 receiver quick passing game with all passes thrown within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, we were done. I think Fitz is gone within the next few weeks. And even if he does restructure his contract this month, I still think he doesn't make it out of training camp with us, unless he can make a dramatic turnaround. I just do not understand why anyone would want a losing QB with no upside on the roster.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 I will stand by my assertion that Fitz has value as an above average backup NFL QB. If he could beat playoff-caliber teams in spite of a bumbling head coach, no #2 WR, and one of the worst defenses in franchise history, then he wouldn't be a back-up NFL QB in the first place...he'd be a top-10 NFL QB...an assertion that I have never made. Your expectations for a back-up NFL QB are unreasonable. Wise up, son. A back up qb left on the team he was a starter for is a bad idea. You bring up the fact that by some miracle Brady threw 4 picks in a game and the Bills won on a last second field goal at HOME, is the very reason why it is a bad idea. Cut Fitz, let him go be a back up for another team, or even compete for another teams starting job. To do so in Buffalo will just keep the franchise stuck where it is and has been for 12 years. If you love the Bills and like Fitz honestly the best thing to do is cut him... Sorry but you know what he is capable of with the Bills.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 A back up qb left on the team he was a starter for is a bad idea. You bring up the fact that by some miracle Brady threw 4 picks in a game and the Bills won on a last second field goal at HOME, is the very reason why it is a bad idea. Cut Fitz, let him go be a back up for another team, or even compete for another teams starting job. To do so in Buffalo will just keep the franchise stuck where it is and has been for 12 years. If you love the Bills and like Fitz honestly the best thing to do is cut him... Sorry but you know what he is capable of with the Bills. Spot-on.
jcbillsfan Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 Chan had a lot of deficiencies ,but he did draw up some nice plays. I think any positive stats from fitz should go to chan. Fitz is a weak armed turnover machine.
KOKBILLS Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 Chan had a lot of deficiencies ,but he did draw up some nice plays. I think any positive stats from fitz should go to chan. Fitz is a weak armed turnover machine. I definitely believe Chan maximized Fitz's abilities and hid (as much as could be hid) his deficiencies...Chan believed in Fitz like no other Coach has, or ever will for that matter...We've see the best of Fitz...And it was never good enough...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) His career completion % is higher than Alex Smith's. What really affected the offense in about 75% of the games (IMO) this season and last, is a defense that is ranked about last in every critical category. Who cares about how his career comp % compares to Smith...it has nothing to do with how accurate, or should I say inaccurate Fitz is. Not to mention, Smith got substantially better a couple years ago over his career numbers prior to then...while Fitz has blown every year. Smith is a better QB today than Fitz too. More importantly, Fitz played in an offense that made Tyler Thigpen look productive in KC too...yet weirdly, like Fitz, had an atrocious record winning just one game. Why, because guys like Fitz and Tyler padded stats when down big or against bad teams while folding when game was winnable or against good teams. Fitz is not a good QB, he is not a starter...he has had a career substantially longer than the average NFL player career length to prove it on the field. He is a turnover machine and led NFL in them as a starter. He has about 30 should be INTs (and that number is probably higher than that) that were awful passes right into the arms of defenders dropped too, so he's lucky that number isn't way higher than that. We are making a complete regime change, time to remove the 2nd biggest problem on this team behind only the old coaching staff. Let him have a fresh start somewhere else and let this offense get a fresh start without dr turnover. Edited February 9, 2013 by Alphadawg7
JohnC Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) We are making a complete regime change, time to remove the 2nd biggest problem on this team behind only the old coaching staff. Let him have a fresh start somewhere else and let this offense get a fresh start without dr turnover. If we are making a complete regime change then why is Buddy Nix involved in this year's draft? Why is he still involved with the organization? Who has the ultimate authority in personnel moves? Who is the real GM if it is not Buddy? Edited February 9, 2013 by JohnC
mob16151 Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 Aren't us long time Bills fans suffering enough? There can't be any worse news imaginable then keeping FItz around. I am not sure about other Bills fans, but I am in dire need of a winning team and it isn't going to happen with Noodle Arm around. People can throw out stats, and stats don't mean crap. Just watch him play. If the game is on the line, you can bet your paycheck he will choke. Wanna bet?
Best Player Available Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 If we are making a complete regime change then why is Buddy Nix involved in this year's draft? Why is he still involved with the organization? Who has the ultimate authority in personnel moves? Who is the real GM if it is not Buddy? Valid point. To be clear, based on Brandons 5 minute "talk" on 1/1/13, in which NO press were allowed. I believe no one outside of the inner circle on OBD has a clue. Those clowns may not have a clue either. That purposely muddy "vision" to me says nothing has changed on OBD. Fire NIx, then Brandon.
KOKBILLS Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 Who cares about how his career comp % compares to Smith...it has nothing to do with how accurate, or should I say inaccurate Fitz is. Not to mention, Smith got substantially better a couple years ago over his career numbers prior to then...while Fitz has blown every year. Smith is a better QB today than Fitz too. More importantly, Fitz played in an offense that made Tyler Thigpen look productive in KC too...yet weirdly, like Fitz, had an atrocious record winning just one game. Why, because guys like Fitz and Tyler padded stats when down big or against bad teams while folding when game was winnable or against good teams. Fitz is not a good QB, he is not a starter...he has had a career substantially longer than the average NFL player career length to prove it on the field. He is a turnover machine and led NFL in them as a starter. He has about 30 should be INTs (and that number is probably higher than that) that were awful passes right into the arms of defenders dropped too, so he's lucky that number isn't way higher than that. We are making a complete regime change, time to remove the 2nd biggest problem on this team behind only the old coaching staff. Let him have a fresh start somewhere else and let this offense get a fresh start without dr turnover. Well said...Agreed 100%... And I'd like to get rid of the 3rd biggest problem, Buddy Nix, ASAP as well...
Dr. Trooth Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 Yeah, he played like a real loser the past two seasons. You've pretty much discredited any argument you have here. His team went 13-3 last season and 8-2-1 this past year before he lost his job to injury. His team beat Super Bowl Champion QB Drew Brees and the Saints in last year's playoffs, in no small part due to a great game from Smith. But you're right, 21-5-1 sounds exactly the same as 12-20 over the past two seasons. If anyone is discredited it is you. In your world and man love for Smith, he would have been 25-5-1 with the Bills. You believe Alex Smith was the reason SF went 25-5-1 the last couple years. But, are somehow blind to him going something like 15-100 the previous 5 seasons. Alex Smith didn't do spit til Harbaugh became HC and even Harbaugh realized he was spinning his wheels with Smith and couldn't wait to replace him. If Fitz had SF's HC, oline, TE, Crabtree, Moss, Gore, and their killer defense, the result would have been the same for SF and Fitz would have, just like Smith, been ulfimately replaced with Kaep. Under Harbaugh, Mark Sanchez or even Matt Leinart couldn't have made SF look bad. The supporting cast and coaching is there. In Buffalo it has not. That's a fact. Fitz, like Smith, is merely a fringe NFL starting qb and caretaker. Whether he sucks or not isn't the arguement. We know he sucks, we know he's not the answer. But, he is, and will be the Bills starting QB until they bring in someone better. That's a fact. And so far, neither Thigpen, Young, or Jackson have presented any challenge to him... that's a fact. If he restructures he restructures. If not, and whether or not he's cut or plays under his current contract this year it counts the same under the cap. That's a fact. Fitz has nothing to gain by restructuring. He's gone whether he does or does not. The only question is, does he want to stay here one year, or two? One if he doesn't restructure, two if he does. Lastly, mark this down... Bills are not going to release Fitz this offseason before they have a new starter in place... and there is absolutely no one out there besides Flacco that is an upgrade to Fitz... and that includes Smith, Flynn, Campbell, Grossman, Stanton. And any vet comimg in sees the writing on the wall... Bills are drafting their 2014 starter in April.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 If anyone is discredited it is you. In your world and man love for Smith, he would have been 25-5-1 with the Bills. You believe Alex Smith was the reason SF went 25-5-1 the last couple years. But, are somehow blind to him going something like 15-100 the previous 5 seasons. Alex Smith didn't do spit til Harbaugh became HC and even Harbaugh realized he was spinning his wheels with Smith and couldn't wait to replace him. If Fitz had SF's HC, oline, TE, Crabtree, Moss, Gore, and their killer defense, the result would have been the same for SF and Fitz would have, just like Smith, been ulfimately replaced with Kaep. Under Harbaugh, Mark Sanchez or even Matt Leinart couldn't have made SF look bad. The supporting cast and coaching is there. In Buffalo it has not. You're positively nuts. I don't think Smith is Peyton Manning or anything and I do think Kaep has the higher ceiling, but if you can't admit that Smith has shown more in the past two seasons than Fitz has ever shown in his career, I can't help you.
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 You're positively nuts. I don't think Smith is Peyton Manning or anything and I do think Kaep has the higher ceiling, but if you can't admit that Smith has shown more in the past two seasons than Fitz has ever shown in his career, I can't help you. Urban Meyer QBs haven't really done much overall in the NFL. Tebow and Smith (Harris as well, though he was not as hyped) have both been disappointing overall. If the Bills trade for Smith, there is a good argument to put him in a college read offense. But, it's not clear if he'll actually withstand the beating of a full season in a full-blown spread option offense at the NFL level. He's rather lean and lanky in body type. In 8 years, he's made it through 2 seasons. PS: Not saying that he is not worth a look.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 Urban Meyer QBs haven't really done much overall in the NFL. Tebow and Smith (Harris as well, though he was not as hyped) have both been disappointing overall. If the Bills trade for Smith, there is a good argument to put him in a college read offense. But, it's not clear if he'll actually withstand the beating of a full season in a full-blown spread option offense at the NFL level. He's rather lean and lanky in body type. In 8 years, he's made it through 2 seasons. PS: Not saying that he is not worth a look. Yeah. And I'm not saying at all that I would have zero reservations about Smith. He provided major cause for concern in his pre-Harbaugh career, and really didn't mature (as a player - seems like a generally mature person) or show he could carry a team until the playoffs last year. I just take issue with the notion that he is equivalent to Fitzpatrick; the evidence clearly proves he can get results that Fitz has never gotten in his career. People can argue otherwise, but Fitz did have a team that Carson Palmer had recently taken to the playoffs with a couple of great receivers, he came up with Mike Martz, it's not like he was toiling away under a succession of purely horrible circumstances. Fitz has positives and he has very identifiable limitations. Smith has at least been able to work with his and produce victories, even when it came down to managing the game. We have seen Fitz throw away enough games with a late INT that the case should be closed.
BuffaloFan68 Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 I'm OK with keeping Fitz for.about $900k/yr but not much more than that. It's not like any other team will want him, except for perhaps the Jets. Fitz doesn't have half the accuracy of Smith. where Smith can throw a ball through a tire, Fitz can't even hit the tire.
bobobonators Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 Who cares about how his career comp % compares to Smith...it has nothing to do with how accurate, or should I say inaccurate Fitz is. Not to mention, Smith got substantially better a couple years ago over his career numbers prior to then...while Fitz has blown every year. Smith is a better QB today than Fitz too. More importantly, Fitz played in an offense that made Tyler Thigpen look productive in KC too...yet weirdly, like Fitz, had an atrocious record winning just one game. Why, because guys like Fitz and Tyler padded stats when down big or against bad teams while folding when game was winnable or against good teams. Fitz is not a good QB, he is not a starter...he has had a career substantially longer than the average NFL player career length to prove it on the field. He is a turnover machine and led NFL in them as a starter. He has about 30 should be INTs (and that number is probably higher than that) that were awful passes right into the arms of defenders dropped too, so he's lucky that number isn't way higher than that. We are making a complete regime change, time to remove the 2nd biggest problem on this team behind only the old coaching staff. Let him have a fresh start somewhere else and let this offense get a fresh start without dr turnover. Who cares about competion %? LOL. The one poster stated how fitz's accuracy isn't up to par. I'm sure if alex smith had a higher completion % you would be the first one on here chirping about how alex smith has a higher completion % and that fitz is so inaccurate. But he generally hasn't, so now who cares. Weren't you the one who also said that the new QBR is the almighty indicator of a QB's success? God knows you said that about 20x in another thread. Alex smith had his best full season in the NFL in 2011, statistically speaking, yet Fitz still had a QBR that was 5 pts higher than Alex Smith. Let me guess, that doesn't matter now either right? So Fitz had more yards, more TD's, a higher completion %, and a higher QBR than alex smith in 2011..but who cares about all that, fitz sucks. When you even start to take into account the disparity in talent on the offensive side (and the coaching staff) between both teams, those #' should be even more damning for Smith. Alex Smith went to the NFC championship game in 2011. What was the main difference between the niners in 2011 and the Bills in 2011? It sure as heck wasn't the QB, it was everything but. Can we upgrade at QB? Sure, and eventually we will. But let's not make fitz out to be a 3rd stringer and players like alex smith to be tom brady.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 Who cares about competion %? LOL. The one poster stated how fitz's accuracy isn't up to par. I'm sure if alex smith had a higher completion % you would be the first one on here chirping about how alex smith has a higher completion % and that fitz is so inaccurate. But he generally hasn't, so now who cares. Weren't you the one who also said that the new QBR is the almighty indicator of a QB's success? God knows you said that about 20x in another thread. Alex smith had his best full season in the NFL in 2011, statistically speaking, yet Fitz still had a QBR that was 5 pts higher than Alex Smith. Let me guess, that doesn't matter now either right? So Fitz had more yards, more TD's, a higher completion %, and a higher QBR than alex smith in 2011..but who cares about all that, fitz sucks. When you even start to take into account the disparity in talent on the offensive side (and the coaching staff) between both teams, those #' should be even more damning for Smith. Alex Smith went to the NFC championship game in 2011. What was the main difference between the niners in 2011 and the Bills in 2011? It sure as heck wasn't the QB, it was everything but. Can we upgrade at QB? Sure, and eventually we will. But let's not make fitz out to be a 3rd stringer and players like alex smith to be tom brady. Can there be no more than one grade in-between? Smith did have a completion % far exceeding Fitz's this season before losing his job to injury, btw. I would not say it was "everything but QB" that the 49ers did better. One major factor was health, and another was better game-planning and coaching. Either way, Fitz has not acquitted himself better than has Smith over his career as a starter. They had been about equal and then Smith really started turning the corner. Fitz had a nice stretch for a few games, got figured out and has not been able to adjust.
Dr. Trooth Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 You're positively nuts. I don't think Smith is Peyton Manning or anything and I do think Kaep has the higher ceiling, but if you can't admit that Smith has shown more in the past two seasons than Fitz has ever shown in his career, I can't help you. Geezuz god you are insane. Please, like I need your help. You can't even help yourself. Yeah... Smith played a lot better the past 2 yrs.... duh!!! but Exatly as I stated... due to harbaugh, a killer defense, ol, and offensive weapons.... SUPPORTING CAST!!!! all of which Fitz does not have. Before that he was a total POS. And like I said... Fitz driving that niner car would yield the same results as smith. Get over the fact that Fitz is likely going to be driving the Bills car this season Smith = Fitz Fitz = Smith the only difference is one was driving a Ferrari and the other Taurus.
bobobonators Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 Can there be no more than one grade in-between? Smith did have a completion % far exceeding Fitz's this season before losing his job to injury, btw. I would not say it was "everything but QB" that the 49ers did better. One major factor was health, and another was better game-planning and coaching. Either way, Fitz has not acquitted himself better than has Smith over his career as a starter. They had been about equal and then Smith really started turning the corner. Fitz had a nice stretch for a few games, got figured out and has not been able to adjust. Fitz hasn't been able to adjust or gailey and co. Weren't able to adjust? I think its more the latter than the former. Was fitz even allowed to audible at times? There were times where the playcalling by gailey was downright criminal. The difference between the talent on the niners roster and the talent on the bills roster is worlds apart. Factor in a coach who is much better than our retread coach, and that wass the primary difference between the niners in 2011 and the bills in 2011, and not the QB (imo) Now as for Kaep and the niners in 2012, I'm not going to argue that because the niners became an incredibly dynamic team after kaep took over.
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