Bills contact Fitz to Restructure

[RuntheDamnBall]

Geezuz god you are insane. Please, like I need your help. You can't even help yourself.

Yeah... Smith played a lot better the past 2 yrs.... duh!!! but Exatly as I stated... due to harbaugh, a killer defense, ol, and offensive weapons.... SUPPORTING CAST!!!! all of which Fitz does not have. Before that he was a total POS. And like I said... Fitz driving that niner car would yield the same results as smith.

You're right, Fitz didn't have the leader in YPC, A #1 WR that he couldn't connect with at long range despite his getting open, probably the best #2 back in the league, and a top-ten offensive line according to many independent ratings. If Fitz had Michael Crabtree and Vernon Davis, he would magically have been able to hit them in the numbers instead of missing them by 5 yards.

 

Also, I see little about what defense has to do with it. The defense Smith benefited from in 2009 was good as well, but he didn't show results. The difference was offensive coaching and scheme.

 

Fitz hasn't been able to adjust or gailey and co. Weren't able to adjust? I think its more the latter than the former. Was fitz even allowed to audible at times? There were times where the playcalling by gailey was downright criminal.

 

The difference between the talent on the niners roster and the talent on the bills roster is worlds apart. Factor in a coach who is much better than our retread coach, and that wass the primary difference between the niners in 2011 and the bills in 2011, and not the QB (imo)

I just fundamentally disagree and I think that when healthy, the Bills have the edge or equal value in several categories.

 

QB: Kaep >>>>> Fitz. Smith > Fitz

HB: CJ + FJ > Gore

WR: SF gets the edge here with better depth. I think I would take Stevie over Crabtree

TE: SF wins hands-down

OL: SF has a close edge.

 

It's the coaching that's the big difference. I will buy that Kaepernick is a better QB than Smith, but I still don't see how the kinds of shortcomings Fitz displayed would be improved with Harbaugh. Fitz knew the throws to make and he couldn't hit them. Smith needed the game slowed down, and that's what Harbaugh was able to do for him.

 

Edit: The defensive talent is clearly another story, but the Bills defense is still not throwing pick-6's.

Edited February 10, 2013 by RuntheDamnBall

[bobobonators]

Let's also not ignore the main problem, or the 800lb gorilla in the room: over the last 3 years, our major signings and majority of draft choices have been on the defensive side of the ball. Yet the defense has ranked at the bottom of the league in defense year after year. So not only have we ignored adding any major talent to the offense, our focus on defense has been an overwheling failure.

 

And our biggest offensive acquisition - CJ spiller - didn't even start until this year.

 

How is a team, and an offense, supposed to overcome those epic shortcomings by the coaches and mgmt?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

As a person who's watched both Alex Smith and Fitz very closely (living here in the Bay Area and having NFL Sunday Ticket), I'd much rather have Alex Smith.

 

First I think Smith is better than Fitz and second, Fitz has run his course here.

 

It's time he and the Bills move on IMO.

[bobobonators]

 

You're right, Fitz didn't have the leader in YPC, A #1 WR that he couldn't connect with at long range despite his getting open, probably the best #2 back in the league, and a top-ten offensive line according to many independent ratings. If Fitz had Michael Crabtree and Vernon Davis, he would magically have been able to hit them in the numbers instead of missing them by 5 yards.

 

Also, I see little about what defense has to do with it. The defense Smith benefited from in 2009 was good as well, but he didn't show results. The difference was offensive coaching and scheme.

 

 

I just fundamentally disagree and I think that when healthy, the Bills have the edge or equal value in several categories.

 

QB: Kaep >>>>> Fitz. Smith > Fitz

HB: CJ + FJ > Gore

WR: SF gets the edge here with better depth. I think I would take Stevie over Crabtree

TE: SF wins hands-down

OL: SF has a close edge.

 

It's the coaching that's the big difference. I will buy that Kaepernick is a better QB than Smith, but I still don't see how the kinds of shortcomings Fitz displayed would be improved with Harbaugh. Fitz knew the throws to make and he couldn't hit them. Smith needed the game slowed down, and that's what Harbaugh was able to do for him.

 

Edit: The defensive talent is clearly another story, but the Bills defense is still not throwing pick-6's.

 

Pick 6's- nonsense man. Hown many pick 6's has Fitz thrown in last 2 years? 1 for sure off top of my head..maybe 2.

 

Interesting to note, as the great alphadawg would tell you, is that QBR takes all this good info into account, yet Fitz with a qbr 5 points higher than smith in 2011, did not make the AFC championship game. Look elsewhere besides QB for the major problem on this team.

Edited February 10, 2013 by bobobonators

[RuntheDamnBall]

Pick 6's- nonsense man. Hown many pick 6's has Fitz thrown in last 2 years? 1 for sure off top of my head..maybe 2.

 

Interesting to note, as the great alphadawg would tell you, is that QBR takes all this good info into account, yet Fitz with a qbr 5 points higher than smith in 2011, did not make the AFC championship game. Look elsewhere besides QB for the major problem on this team.

Aside from coaching, I can't. Not on offense.

 

And it's not just pick-6's. It's critical, 4th quarter situations where a pick is thrown, or turnovers in their own zone when the game is still in the balance - even if they don't immediately lead to points.

 

As a game manager in 2011, Smith threw 5 INTs. With a little more confidence this season, he still only threw 5 over 9 starts (one ended by injury). Prorate it to a full season and you're still talking only 9-10 INTs. That would be an average of 7.5 INTs per 16 game season, the past two. Fitz has averaged 19.5 INTs the past two years. These things don't automatically change with more talent surrounding you, even though I don't think my argument that the Bills have a decent amount of offensive talent has been countered very well, either.

[KOKBILLS]

Look elsewhere besides QB for the major problem on this team.

 

Bull...

 

I don't think anyone here would say the Bills don't have other problems outside of QB...But if you don't think the lack of a quality QB is not the #1 problem with this team then I'm uncertain exactly which league, and team, you follow...Because this is the NFL...And in the NFL QB is King...Fitz is a slightly below average NFL QB...There is no question that upgrading the QB position will go farther in improving this Bills team than anything else...Nothing comes close...

[bobobonators]

 

 

Bull...

 

I don't think anyone here would say the Bills don't have other problems outside of QB...But if you don't think the lack of a quality QB is not the #1 problem with this team then I'm uncertain exactly which league, and team, you follow...Because this is the NFL...And in the NFL QB is King...Fitz is a slightly below average NFL QB...There is no question that upgrading the QB position will go farther in improving this Bills team than anything else...Nothing comes close...

 

Look at alex smith's numbers in 2011 and fitz's numbers that same year, and then look at their teams respective records. There's a clear disconnect there.

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat. If christian ponder can lead a team to the playoffs then its not all about the QB. Mark sanchez went pretty deep into the playoffs too.

 

If there's an upgrade at QB in the draft, by all means draft the kid and start him.

 

We'll see how it plays out. I think with the right level of talent around him, fitz can take a team to the playoffs. Many on here don't. That's fine.

[Alphadawg7]

Who cares about competion %? LOL. The one poster stated how fitz's accuracy isn't up to par. I'm sure if alex smith had a higher completion % you would be the first one on here chirping about how alex smith has a higher completion % and that fitz is so inaccurate. But he generally hasn't, so now who cares.

 

Weren't you the one who also said that the new QBR is the almighty indicator of a QB's success? God knows you said that about 20x in another thread. Alex smith had his best full season in the NFL in 2011, statistically speaking, yet Fitz still had a QBR that was 5 pts higher than Alex Smith. Let me guess, that doesn't matter now either right? So Fitz had more yards, more TD's, a higher completion %, and a higher QBR than alex smith in 2011..but who cares about all that, fitz sucks. When you even start to take into account the disparity in talent on the offensive side (and the coaching staff) between both teams, those #' should be even more damning for Smith.

 

Alex Smith went to the NFC championship game in 2011. What was the main difference between the niners in 2011 and the Bills in 2011? It sure as heck wasn't the QB, it was everything but.

 

Can we upgrade at QB? Sure, and eventually we will. But let's not make fitz out to be a 3rd stringer and players like alex smith to be tom brady.

 

What are you talking about? Why are you talking to me like I am some kind of Alex Smith guy...I think Alex is better than Fitz, but not that be all end all solution. He just doesnt make as many mistakes.

 

Yes QBR is something I am an advocate of, not the QB rating of old, but the new QBR and Fitz sucks. And you should read the post again, I did not say who cares about accuracy, I said who cares of how his career accuracy compares to Alex Smith career accuracy. You chose Smiths career accuracy because its lower than it has been the last 2 years. Why, because Alex didnt develop into a decent QB until Harbaugh took over. But you want to use the career number to elevate Fitz to look better or comparable.

 

Again, I say WHO CARES about how FItzs career comp % compares to another mediocre QB. That comparison does NOT make Fitz accurate. Thats like saying how does a fart compare to a burp. Neither smells good, but because one might smell a little less bad than the other does NOT mean that one doesn't also smell bad.

 

You love to do this crap of comparing meaningless things to somehow yet again elevate the pathetic performance Fitz has shown on the field for 3 years. He leads the NFL in freaking turnovers...the NUMBER 1 thing by a mile that your QB must not do...its literally the single most important job on the field and he has been the worst at it. His whole career he has been turn over prone and had poor accuracy. So compare him to who ever you want, NOTHING changes the FACTS about Fitz not being accurate and turning the ball over. Case closed.

 

Pick 6's- nonsense man. Hown many pick 6's has Fitz thrown in last 2 years? 1 for sure off top of my head..maybe 2.

 

Interesting to note, as the great alphadawg would tell you, is that QBR takes all this good info into account, yet Fitz with a qbr 5 points higher than smith in 2011, did not make the AFC championship game. Look elsewhere besides QB for the major problem on this team.

 

This shows how delusional you are about Fitz. For crying out loud, he had 2 in a sinlge game and you want to say he had one, or maybe two total haha, come on man. He has several games where he threw a pick 6 as a QB of the Bills, including ones that were at the end of games we should have or could have won. And if I am not mistaken he has thrown 2 pick sixes in more than one game.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Alphadawg7

[machine gun kelly]

If he can accept $2 mil a year like a typical backup, then fine. i agree he could be an excellent back up, but we need the cap space to put together a solid team. We need two solid young durable free agents, and hope Whaley knows what he is doing for the draft which is the real answer.

[Bronc24]

Sigh.

 

If Fitz cannot win games taking all the snaps with the first team, how does that translate to him being a solid backup?

 

Bobo and his merry band of stats keepers seemed to disappear in the latter part of the season. You know, that time period where it was apparent we were on our way to yet another 6 win season. Yet now that the rotting stench of Pickspatrick's performances are two months removed, here they are again. Incredible. Fitz did nothing to show he can take any team to the playoffs.

 

No fan base in this league will jump for joy if the Bills cut Fitz and their team signs him. Oh sure, there will be some stat guys who can try and put him on par with winning QBs, but the wins and losses don't lie.

 

Every time the Bills were in the game in the fourth with Fitz having a chance to win, people knew he would not do it. When an entire fan base knows this about your QB, it's time to move on.

 

Cut the chord. I will never look back and say, "Man, I wish we had kept Fitz." It is time to move on from that fiasco.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Marauder24

[bobobonators]

You're right, Fitz didn't have the leader in YPC, A #1 WR that he couldn't connect with at long range despite his getting open, probably the best #2 back in the league, and a top-ten offensive line according to many independent ratings. If Fitz had Michael Crabtree and Vernon Davis, he would magically have been able to hit them in the numbers instead of missing them by 5 yards.

 

Also, I see little about what defense has to do with it. The defense Smith benefited from in 2009 was good as well, but he didn't show results. The difference was offensive coaching and scheme.

 

 

I just fundamentally disagree and I think that when healthy, the Bills have the edge or equal value in several categories.

 

QB: Kaep >>>>> Fitz. Smith > Fitz

HB: CJ + FJ > Gore

WR: SF gets the edge here with better depth. I think I would take Stevie over Crabtree

TE: SF wins hands-down

OL: SF has a close edge.

 

It's the coaching that's the big difference. I will buy that Kaepernick is a better QB than Smith, but I still don't see how the kinds of shortcomings Fitz displayed would be improved with Harbaugh. Fitz knew the throws to make and he couldn't hit them. Smith needed the game slowed down, and that's what Harbaugh was able to do for him.

 

Edit: The defensive talent is clearly another story, but the Bills defense is still not throwing pick-6's.

 

hey man, i was on the road and couldn't read your entire post properly.

 

referring to SF barely having the edge on offensive talent, i flat out disagree. there's no point in comparing who has more talent at QB since we're discussing the support around them, so forget about who has more depth at QB. As for RB, you may say that CJ + FJ are > than gore, however CJ didn't even really start regularly until this year. Frank Gore has had back-to-back +1200yd seasons with 8td. The fact that we require two players to do what one player on SF does, doesn't necessarily make us better at that spot. But if you want to say that CJ and Freddy are better than Gore, fine, I'll give you that.

 

But then we lose BY FAR at WR; BY FAR at TE; BY FAR at OL. So the only spot that we even hold a candle to SF on the offensive side is at RB.

 

In 2010 we drafted two defensive players in fist 3 rounds: Troup/Carrington

 

In 2011, our first 4 players drafted were on the defensive side: Dareus, Aaron Wiliams, Sheppard, Searcy

 

In 2012, our first overall pick was on the defensive side as well, followed by another in the first 4 rounds: Gilmore/Bradham.

 

Our major FA signings over the last 3 years: Mario Williams, Anderson, Barnett.

 

Meanwhile, lets look at our starters at the "skill positions" on the offensive side over the past few years:

 

Donald Jones - undrafted - garbage

Ruvell Martin - undrafted - garbage

Brad Smith - College QB playing WR on the Bills - good NFL player but only average at best at WR

Marcus Easley - 4th round - garbage

Nelson - undrafted - has played well for us but not an elite talent

Scott Chandler - 4th round - has played well for us but not an elite talent either

Naaman Roosevelt - undrafted - garbage

Fred Jackson - undrafted/NFL europe - great a few years ago; production has taken a massive hit last 2 years

 

Spiller - 1st round - our best offensive weapon - didn't even start regularly until this season.

TJ Graham - 3rd round - we'll see how he pans out but showed very little rookie season.

 

 

In short, we have sure picked up a lot of garbage talent for our offensive skill positions over the last couple of years. We may have hit a homerun with Spiller, but Spiller has yet to even start a full season. I'm actually amazed that when you take into account that Fitz is a 7th round pick, and Stevie is a 7th round pick, that our offense is still WORLDS BETTER than our defense.

 

So here we are going into 2013 ripping on Fitzpatrick when he's played well above his level with nothing but marginal to garbage talent around him compared to a defense that has nothing but 1st round picks and massive FA signings coming in dead last or near dead last in every defensive statistical category year after year.

 

Meanwhile lets look at San Francisco over last couple of years:

 

Crabtree: 1st round, top 10 pick

Randy Moss: HOF

Vernon Davis: 1st round, top 10 pick; 2nd best TE in all of football

Ted Ginn: top 10 pick

AJ Jenkins: 1st round

Gore: 3rd round

Lamichael James: 2nd round

Braylon Edwards: 1st round, top 3 pick

 

There's no comparison. Don't even bother looking at the OL. Yet somehow Alex Smith would just step right into Orchard Park and magically make Donald Jones or Ruvell Martin into great WR's . Alex Smith never even threw for 20td's in San Fran with nothing but pro bowlers at TE, WR, RB, and the O-line. Yet fitz has thrown 23, 24, 24TD's the last three seasons with the likes of Roosevelt, Martin, and Donald Jones lining up at WR. Give me a break.

Edited February 10, 2013 by bobobonators

[QCity]

Yet fitz has thrown 23, 24, 24TD's the last three seasons with the likes of Roosevelt, Martin, and Donald Jones lining up at WR.

 

Fitz pads his stats in garbage time against 2nd string defenses when we are getting blown out.

 

Week 1 NY Jets

 

Fitz 8/15 for 75yds 0TD and 3INT. Score NY Jets 41 Buffalo 7. In comes 2nd stringers and the Jets give up playing D and all of a sudden Fitz 18/32 195yds 3TDs LOL

 

I seen that happen all too often over the past 2 years. Fitz wouldn't have cracked 15TDs last year if it wasn't for garbage time. Spiller catching a 2yd screen and running 60+ yards for a TD doesn't hurt either. Put the Fitz stats away, they are meaningless. Go back and watch him on tape, that's all you need to know.

[Alphadawg7]

Fitz pads his stats in garbage time against 2nd string defenses when we are getting blown out.

 

Week 1 NY Jets

 

Fitz 8/15 for 75yds 0TD and 3INT. Score NY Jets 41 Buffalo 7. In comes 2nd stringers and the Jets give up playing D and all of a sudden Fitz 18/32 195yds 3TDs LOL

 

I seen that happen all too often over the past 2 years. Fitz wouldn't have cracked 15TDs last year if it wasn't for garbage time. Spiller catching a 2yd screen and running 60+ yards for a TD doesn't hurt either. Put the Fitz stats away, they are meaningless. Go back and watch him on tape, that's all you need to know.

 

+1000

[#34fan]

Giving Fitz that kind of coin in the first place was like doubling-down on BAD, -but hey that's history. For our next trick, we should try like hell not to repeat it. Most of the available FA QB's could come in here and do a decent Job until Marcus Mariota declares. Matt Moore... Drew Stanton.... You pretty much want a guy like Fitzy's locker cleaned out before the start of OTA's... That's KEY to changing directions, as far as I'm concerned.

[KOKBILLS]

Fitz pads his stats in garbage time against 2nd string defenses when we are getting blown out.

 

Week 1 NY Jets

 

Fitz 8/15 for 75yds 0TD and 3INT. Score NY Jets 41 Buffalo 7. In comes 2nd stringers and the Jets give up playing D and all of a sudden Fitz 18/32 195yds 3TDs LOL

 

I seen that happen all too often over the past 2 years. Fitz wouldn't have cracked 15TDs last year if it wasn't for garbage time. Spiller catching a 2yd screen and running 60+ yards for a TD doesn't hurt either. Put the Fitz stats away, they are meaningless. Go back and watch him on tape, that's all you need to know.

 

Plus he continuously came up short in key drives late in games...He had his chances to come up big in 2012, but he failed miserably...He was literally the opposite of clutch last year, and he's pretty much been the same QB since he cooled down after that hot start in 2011...He's just not good enough...Especially against decent Defenses...Time to go...

[ganesh]

I'll buy that. I'll also admit that I am intrigued by Smith in part because he proves my thesis that there is a class of players that isn't destined to succeed or fail, but whose success is entirely dependent on the right fit with coach and system. We use the term "system QB" derisively, or that Harbaugh is steroids for QBs and the like, but some players are really transformed by that connection with a system and coach that works for them (paired with the player's work ethic). Kurt Warner comes to mind. It seems like a lot of these players also fail when partnered with defense-first coaches with a weak OC.

 

The classic definition of "System QB" is simply have a scheme that allows your players to use their skills correctly and succeed in doing so!

[NewEra]

 

 

hey man, i was on the road and couldn't read your entire post properly.

 

referring to SF barely having the edge on offensive talent, i flat out disagree. there's no point in comparing who has more talent at QB since we're discussing the support around them, so forget about who has more depth at QB. As for RB, you may say that CJ + FJ are > than gore, however CJ didn't even really start regularly until this year. Frank Gore has had back-to-back +1200yd seasons with 8td. The fact that we require two players to do what one player on SF does, doesn't necessarily make us better at that spot. But if you want to say that CJ and Freddy are better than Gore, fine, I'll give you that.

 

But then we lose BY FAR at WR; BY FAR at TE; BY FAR at OL. So the only spot that we even hold a candle to SF on the offensive side is at RB.

 

In 2010 we drafted two defensive players in fist 3 rounds: Troup/Carrington

 

In 2011, our first 4 players drafted were on the defensive side: Dareus, Aaron Wiliams, Sheppard, Searcy

 

In 2012, our first overall pick was on the defensive side as well, followed by another in the first 4 rounds: Gilmore/Bradham.

 

Our major FA signings over the last 3 years: Mario Williams, Anderson, Barnett.

 

Meanwhile, lets look at our starters at the "skill positions" on the offensive side over the past few years:

 

Donald Jones - undrafted - garbage

Ruvell Martin - undrafted - garbage

Brad Smith - College QB playing WR on the Bills - good NFL player but only average at best at WR

Marcus Easley - 4th round - garbage

Nelson - undrafted - has played well for us but not an elite talent

Scott Chandler - 4th round - has played well for us but not an elite talent either

Naaman Roosevelt - undrafted - garbage

Fred Jackson - undrafted/NFL europe - great a few years ago; production has taken a massive hit last 2 years

 

Spiller - 1st round - our best offensive weapon - didn't even start regularly until this season.

TJ Graham - 3rd round - we'll see how he pans out but showed very little rookie season.

 

 

In short, we have sure picked up a lot of garbage talent for our offensive skill positions over the last couple of years. We may have hit a homerun with Spiller, but Spiller has yet to even start a full season. I'm actually amazed that when you take into account that Fitz is a 7th round pick, and Stevie is a 7th round pick, that our offense is still WORLDS BETTER than our defense.

 

So here we are going into 2013 ripping on Fitzpatrick when he's played well above his level with nothing but marginal to garbage talent around him compared to a defense that has nothing but 1st round picks and massive FA signings coming in dead last or near dead last in every defensive statistical category year after year.

 

Meanwhile lets look at San Francisco over last couple of years:

 

Crabtree: 1st round, top 10 pick

Randy Moss: HOF

Vernon Davis: 1st round, top 10 pick; 2nd best TE in all of football

Ted Ginn: top 10 pick

AJ Jenkins: 1st round

Gore: 3rd round

Lamichael James: 2nd round

Braylon Edwards: 1st round, top 3 pick

 

There's no comparison. Don't even bother looking at the OL. Yet somehow Alex Smith would just step right into Orchard Park and magically make Donald Jones or Ruvell Martin into great WR's . Alex Smith never even threw for 20td's in San Fran with nothing but pro bowlers at TE, WR, RB, and the O-line. Yet fitz has thrown 23, 24, 24TD's the last three seasons with the likes of Roosevelt, Martin, and Donald Jones lining up at WR. Give me a break.

 

You put WAY too much time and effort defending this scrub QB. He sucks. Get over it.

[truth on hold]

 

 

You put WAY too much time and effort defending this scrub QB. He sucks. Get over it.

Here's the ironic thing:

 

By his logic, Fitz 7th round =garbage

[RuntheDamnBall]

Here's the ironic thing:

 

By his logic, Fitz 7th round =garbage

Plus... Braylon Edwards and Ted Ginn are "FIRST ROUND TALENT" when they play for some other team, instead of washed up retreads, kick return specialists or problem children. Randy Moss could have used his invisibility cloak to actually hide from the defense instead of his QB in the Super Bowl. And Stevie Johnson doesn't get mention among our WRs but Ruvell Martin does. No agenda here!

[BuffBill]

Plus he continuously came up short in key drives late in games...He had his chances to come up big in 2012, but he failed miserably...He was literally the opposite of clutch last year, and he's pretty much been the same QB since he cooled down after that hot start in 2011...He's just not good enough...Especially against decent Defenses...Time to go...

I agree. Have never seen a QB whose stats are so insignificant when it comes to telling the real story of how good a QB is. He has to be the worst I have ever seen when the game in on the line in the last half of the 4th quarter. They talk about getting a big game receiver, to go with Graham's speed and Johnsons fine routes, by why, when the QB can't get the ball to them anyway?