Lil Donte Still Talkin

[JohnC]

 

 

So what? A few years ago, the 49ers had a good overall football team, and a hole at SS. Today, they have a better overall football team, and a hole at SS.

 

.

 

Part of the reason for that long drought was the squandering of the 8th overall pick on Whitner.

 

Why blame him for the franchise's stupidity?

 

Why does a former inconsequential player drafted by a moronic front office at the top of the draft draw so much attention and ire?

 

When Whitner was selected to the Pro Bowl, many of his supporters here on these forums triumphantly proclaimed he was a top safety. After watching his performance in the Super Bowl, it should have been glaringly obvious to anyone why Whitner the free agent had attracted so little interest from GMs.

 

But now that it's become crystal clear that Whitner's detractors were right all along, we're not supposed to point this out because . . . we're spending too much attention on the subject? Back when Whitner's supporters were gloating about his (completely undeserved) Pro Bowl invitation, did you tell them they were giving the subject too much attention?

 

You will always have people who have a contrary view. The overwhelming majority of people recognized at a very early stage in his career that he was not as good relative to his draft position.The minority of fans who held the positon that Whitner was an all-pro type of player are not worth debating. There are some fringe people who sincerely believe that Fitz is a good qb. They view him as a gunslinger. There comes a point when what is the point of discussing that type of obvious issue? There are people who don't believe in climate change or evolution. Do you think any reasoned discussion is going to change those luddites?

 

> When your product is garbage work on your own stink before spending an iota of time and effort on player that has for a long time nothing to do with you.

 

You seem to be holding Bills' fans collectively responsible for the incompetence of the front office. Is there anything you would advise me, as a fan, to do differently to promote a more competent front office?

 

Pay more attention to your own team's foibles instead of harranguing long departed players. Whatever you think of Whitner as a player and person when he was with the Bills he played hard and with passion. He certainly wasn't an elite player but without a doubt he was a team guy. That is more than I can say for Stevie, a player who felt it was more important to go into his juvenile look at me act that drew a penalty and was a blatant act of insubordination towards the HC. I'll take Whitner's attitude over that of the me player currently on the hometown roster.

Edited February 12, 2013 by JohnC

[Orton's Arm]

You will always have people who have a contrary view. The overwhelming majority of people recognized at a very early stage in his career that he was not as good relative to his draft position.The minority of fans who held the positon that Whitner was an all-pro type of player are not worth debating. There are some fringe people who sincerely believe that Fitz is a good qb. They view him as a gunslinger. There comes a point when what is the point of discussing that type of obvious issue? There are people who don't believe in climate change or evolution. Do you think any reasoned discussion is going to change those luddites?

 

 

 

Pay more attention to your own team's foibles instead of harranguing long departed players. Whatever you think of Whitner as a player and person when he was with the Bills he played hard and with passion. He certainly wasn't an elite player but without a doubt he was a team guy. That is more than I can say for Stevie, a player who felt it was more important to go into his juvenile look at me act that drew a penalty and was a blatant act of insubordination towards the HC. I'll take Whitner's attitude over that of the me player currently on the hometown roster.

 

> The overwhelming majority of people recognized at a very early stage in his career that he was not as good relative to his draft position.

 

True. But a number of those who acknowledged he hadn't lived up to his draft position still described him as an above-average or even Pro Bowl safety.

 

Edwards_Arm

> Is there anything you would advise me, as a fan, to do differently to promote a more competent front office?

 

JohnC

> Pay more attention to your own team's foibles instead of harranguing long departed players.

 

My question was about what I could do to promote a more competent front office. Not about what I could do to please you personally.

[JohnC]

.

 

My question was about what I could do to promote a more competent front office. Not about what I could do to please you personally.

 

Whatever you do or don't do has nothing to do with pleasing me. That is your business; that is your prerogative.

 

You have as much say as I do on influencing the Bills front office to become more competent. There is virtually nothing you can do other than voicing your opinion by not spending money on the team. When I cancelled my Directv Tickept plan it was offered free of charge.So I kept it. I used to buy Bills' clothing such as hats and t-shirts etc. I now don't and won't until there is a new owner and I'm assured that the team will stay in the region. It's not very impactful but it is good enough for me.

 

I'm not all negative about the prospects of the team. Without a doubt Brandon is a significant upgrade over the ailing owner.. He disappointed me when he kept Nix on the job. But I have more hope that he will modernize this archaic franchise into a more normally run operation. That is some progress.

[Orton's Arm]

Whatever you do or don't do has nothing to do with pleasing me. That is your business; that is your prerogative.

 

You have as much say as I do on influencing the Bills front office to become more competent. There is virtually nothing you can do other than voicing your opinion by not spending money on the team. When I cancelled my Directv Tickept plan it was offered free of charge.So I kept it. I used to buy Bills' clothing such as hats and t-shirts etc. I now don't and won't until there is a new owner and I'm assured that the team will stay in the region. It's not very impactful but it is good enough for me.

 

I'm not all negative about the prospects of the team. Without a doubt Brandon is a significant upgrade over the ailing owner.. He disappointed me when he kept Nix on the job. But I have more hope that he will modernize this archaic franchise into a more normally run operation. That is some progress.

 

I mostly agree with this post. I'd also add that when fans come to games with paper bags over their heads or other visible signs of discontent, that also sends a message.

 

Brandon has been in charge of this team before. Back then, the Bills drafted Maybin and Wood in the first, and Byrd and Levitre in the second. Back when Nix took over from Brandon, people pointed at Maybin as the type of pick Nix would not make. Maybin was a one year wonder, and did not have any big games against top competition. While Buddy might be willing to take chances on guys like that later in the draft, he's not willing to use first round picks on them.

 

I remember when TD was billed as an upgrade over Butler. I remember when Marv was billed as an upgrade over TD. I remember when Brandon was billed as an upgrade over Marv. I remember when Buddy was billed as an upgrade over Brandon. Now Brandon is being billed as an upgrade over Nix? You'd think that with this much upgrading, the Bills would have several Super Bowl trophies by now!

 

In a perfect world, Buddy and Brandon would work together to produce a better-run team than either would have alone. There's even a chance things will work out exactly as fans like me hope. But I want to see some good, solid drafts for the Bills before getting the anointing oil out for either Buddy or Brandon.

[holmz56]

Remember this Donte ! Your offensive line was fortunate to have zero yes zero injuries the whole season ! My hats off to you and the O-Line if they're that lucky next season . Give the Bills your O-Line and Ryan would've been in the Pro Bowl ! Your team is great ,I'll admit it , but it's so much luck involved ,injury wise !!

[BuffBill]

He's a very un-likeable a-hole.

Why? Because he isn't on the Bills anymore? You like many on here would still be pleasuring yourself to a life sized "Fathead" of him on your bedroom wall if he was still playing in Buffalo. Because he isn't, he is the anti-christ. Get over it.

[Bill from NYC]

Why? Because he isn't on the Bills anymore? You like many on here would still be pleasuring yourself to a life sized "Fathead" of him on your bedroom wall if he was still playing in Buffalo. Because he isn't, he is the anti-christ. Get over it.

 

A little over the top, no? The man stated an opinion.

[Maury Ballstein]

Why? Because he isn't on the Bills anymore? You like many on here would still be pleasuring yourself to a life sized "Fathead" of him on your bedroom wall if he was still playing in Buffalo. Because he isn't, he is the anti-christ. Get over it.

 

taking it too far? if he was still on the Bills he would be treated like Kelsay, Aaron Williams, and Fitz are currently. Just another guy most of us don't care for.

[BADOLBILZ]

Why? Because he isn't on the Bills anymore? You like many on here would still be pleasuring yourself to a life sized "Fathead" of him on your bedroom wall if he was still playing in Buffalo. Because he isn't, he is the anti-christ. Get over it.

 

There are people like that here......C Biscuit and Promo are a couple that hate on other teams players and are far to overzealous in defense of poor performing Bills coaches, players or other management.

 

I am not in that group. Those are the fan-haters.

 

The only thing that Donte did big when he was in Buffalo was talk. The saying is "talk is cheap", but for some like yourself, Donte's Baghdad Bob impersonation was precious currency for you to cling to during the decade of failure.

 

I am just not a fan of no-account f*cks like Donte and my opinion reflects that.

[C.Biscuit97]

There are people like that here......C Biscuit and Promo are a couple that hate on other teams players and are far to overzealous in defense of poor performing Bills coaches, players or other management.

 

I am not in that group. Those are the fan-haters.

 

The only thing that Donte did big when he was in Buffalo was talk. The saying is "talk is cheap", but for some like yourself, Donte's Baghdad Bob impersonation was precious currency for you to cling to during the decade of failure.

 

I am just not a fan of no-account f*cks like Donte and my opinion reflects that.

 

You just reek of douche. But good job on personalizing posts.

 

But obviously since a cranky guy on an internet message board says Whitner sucks, he must obviously suck. Harbaugh is a joke of a coach and has no idea what he is doing. And Whitner is only going to the pro bowl because he was so popular from his time in the media haven of Buffalo. You're right, and Harbaugh & the pro bowl voters are wrong.

[Orton's Arm]

You just reek of douche. But good job on personalizing posts.

 

But obviously since a cranky guy on an internet message board says Whitner sucks, he must obviously suck. Harbaugh is a joke of a coach and has no idea what he is doing. And Whitner is only going to the pro bowl because he was so popular from his time in the media haven of Buffalo. You're right, and Harbaugh & the pro bowl voters are wrong.

 

> You just reek of douche.

 

No he doesn't. He reeks of telling it like it is, without being gullible enough to buy into empty Whitner-related hype.

 

> But obviously since a cranky guy on an internet message board says Whitner sucks, he must obviously suck.

 

I take it you didn't watch the Super Bowl?

 

> You're right, and Harbaugh & the pro bowl voters are wrong.

 

The 49ers signed him to a below-average contract. They were not wrong: Whitner is a below-average safety, and they're paying him what he's worth. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

The idea that Whitner's Pro Bowl selection had anything to do with his level of play is a complete myth. Write the name of each starting SS on a 3 x 5 card, tape those cards onto the wall, and throw a few darts at your wall. Most of those darts will end up hitting better SSs than Whitner. This includes the darts which didn't hit any 3 x 5 cards at all.

 

There's a lot about Whitner which has gotten him name recognition among casual fans. First, he got drafted 8th overall. I recognize names like Eric Berry and Michael Huff based on their draft position. I have to assume a lot of fans from other teams are the same WRT Whitner. Those fans get to cast votes for the Pro Bowl. Then there's the fact that Whitner got to be part of a successful San Francisco defense. Those who don't watch the games closely might assume that the 49ers' defensive success was in part because of him; as opposed to having been despite him. Show these fans a few highlight reels of Whitner making big hits, and they're sold.

 

Any serious fan who's watched Whitner in pass coverage for any length of time knows the 49ers have a hole at SS.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Edwards' Arm

[BADOLBILZ]

You just reek of douche. But good job on personalizing posts.

 

But obviously since a cranky guy on an internet message board says Whitner sucks, he must obviously suck. Harbaugh is a joke of a coach and has no idea what he is doing. And Whitner is only going to the pro bowl because he was so popular from his time in the media haven of Buffalo. You're right, and Harbaugh & the pro bowl voters are wrong.

 

Thank you, your inclusion in a thread about unaccountability is appropriate for obvious reasons.

 

I never knocked Harbaugh, but there are no complete teams anymore. The Niners have a hole in coverage where Donte is. It's not easy for everyone to exploit because the front 7 usually takes care of business before it gets that far. He's a weak point in their defense.

[JohnC]

Thank you, your inclusion in a thread about unaccountability is appropriate for obvious reasons.

 

I never knocked Harbaugh, but there are no complete teams anymore. The Niners have a hole in coverage where Donte is. It's not easy for everyone to exploit because the front 7 usually takes care of business before it gets that far. He's a weak point in their defense.

 

How many weak points do the Bills have? The qb position; the receiver corps; issues on the DL; the LBing corps; the DB group; our coaching staff hasn't been too impressive; the countryboy GM and the caliber of ownership. Do you know what the real absurdity of anything that is associated with Donte? It is that the Bills drafted this inconsequential player near the top of his draft year while bypassing prospects who are now all-pro.

 

There are plenty of inconsequential players within the Bills roster that should be drawing your attention without needing to look outside of the organization. When your team has been out of the playoffs for 13 consecutive years with no credible playoff prospects in sight and when your team has had a losing record 8 times out of the last 10 (in a system designed for parity) what credibility do you and the many other Dante critics have for a player who is with a winning organization?

 

Donte has not been with the Bills for years now. The Bills lost before he was on the roster, when he was on the roster and after he was off the roster. There are many problematic issues associated with the flaccid Bills organization that have nothing to do with its former players. Winners win and losers complain. Jealously gets you no where you need to go to be successful.

[Orton's Arm]

How many weak points do the Bills have? The qb position; the receiver corps; issues on the DL; the LBing corps; the DB group; our coaching staff hasn't been too impressive; the countryboy GM and the caliber of ownership. Do you know what the real absurdity of anything that is associated with Donte? It is that the Bills drafted this inconsequential player near the top of his draft year while bypassing prospects who are now all-pro.

 

There are plenty of inconsequential players within the Bills roster that should be drawing your attention without needing to look outside of the organization. When your team has been out of the playoffs for 13 consecutive years with no credible playoff prospects in sight and when your team has had a losing record 8 times out of the last 10 (in a system designed for parity) what credibility do you and the many other Dante critics have for a player who is with a winning organization?

 

Donte has not been with the Bills for years now. The Bills lost before he was on the roster, when he was on the roster and after he was off the roster. There are many problematic issues associated with the flaccid Bills organization that have nothing to do with its former players. Winners win and losers complain. Jealously gets you no where you need to go to be successful.

 

There are several things you've done in the above post with which I disagree.

 

1) First, you are spending too much of your attention on telling other people how to devote their attention.

2) Second, you are criticizing Badolbellz for having made correct statements about Whitner, without also leveling the same criticism at CBiscuit for his inaccurate statements. Why is it that you're asking Whitner's detractors, but not his supporters, to move on to other subjects?

3) Third, you seem to be under the impression that even intelligent, informed fans of poorly run organizations like the Bills have no right to criticize bad players on good football teams. Is the reverse also true? Do you think that unintelligent, uninformed fans of well-run organizations like the Patriots have the right to criticize good players on bad football teams? Would you say that some idiot who criticizes Spiller on a Patriots message board is granted an aura of credibility due to the discipline with which the Patriots are run? If not, then why do you suppose that Bills fans automatically have an aura of anti-credibility?

4) Most importantly, you seem to be assuming that criticism of Whitner is driven entirely by bitterness about the squandered draft pick. I admit that may be one factor in the Whitner criticism. But there is another: the desire to see things exactly as they are, without the benefit of rose colored glasses. Well-run organizations are known for this. When Whitner's supporters make inaccurate statements about him or about his level of play, why do you object to those statements being corrected?

 

Moreover, to the extent that criticism of Whitner is caused by bitterness, you're not going to get rid of that bitterness by complaining about it, or by telling Whitner's detractors to remain silent while his supporters sing his praises. The way to get rid of bitterness is to substitute some positive goal to be achieved in its place. Any attention used to achieve the goal is attention unavailable for bitterness.

[Bill from NYC]

Donte has not been with the Bills for years now. The Bills lost before he was on the roster, when he was on the roster and after he was off the roster. There are many problematic issues associated with the flaccid Bills organization that have nothing to do with its former players. Winners win and losers complain. Jealously gets you no where you need to go to be successful.

 

Donte Whitner is symbolic of every single thing that is wrong with this team. His selection, attitude and his level of play point to why this team is where it is, and this includes much of what you mentioned.

Badol is expressing his opinion about his level of play, which btw clearly cost his team a superbowl. He thinks (and I agree) that Whitner is a mediocre at best safety. Why are you so invested in his opinion of one football player? Why not leave it alone and perhaps you will see his side on other issues? Or maybe not, but at least there is room for interesting, constructive dialogue.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Bill from NYC

[JohnC]

There are several things you've done in the above post with which I disagree.

 

1) First, you are spending too much of your attention on telling other people how to devote their attention.

2) Second, you are criticizing Badolbellz for having made correct statements about Whitner, without also leveling the same criticism at CBiscuit for his inaccurate statements. Why is it that you're asking Whitner's detractors, but not his supporters, to move on to other subjects?

3) Third, you seem to be under the impression that even intelligent, informed fans of poorly run organizations like the Bills have no right to criticize bad players on good football teams. Is the reverse also true? Do you think that unintelligent, uninformed fans of well-run organizations like the Patriots have the right to criticize good players on bad football teams? Would you say that some idiot who criticizes Spiller on a Patriots message board is granted an aura of credibility due to the discipline with which the Patriots are run? If not, then why do you suppose that Bills fans automatically have an aura of anti-credibility?

4) Most importantly, you seem to be assuming that criticism of Whitner is driven entirely by bitterness about the squandered draft pick. I admit that may be one factor in the Whitner criticism. But there is another: the desire to see things exactly as they are, without the benefit of rose colored glasses. Well-run organizations are known for this. When Whitner's supporters make inaccurate statements about him or about his level of play, why do you object to those statements being corrected?

 

Moreover, to the extent that criticism of Whitner is caused by bitterness, you're not going to get rid of that bitterness by complaining about it, or by telling Whitner's detractors to remain silent while his supporters sing his praises. The way to get rid of bitterness is to substitute some positive goal to be achieved in its place. Any attention used to achieve the goal is attention unavailable for bitterness.

 

I just find it absurd that a former Bill has become a whipping boy from Bills' fans.

 

You tell me what is driving this bogeyman attack on him? That he is a jerk? You don't think that the Bills have had and do have their share of jerks? Is he the only twitter fool you know of in the league?

 

As I stated before the Bills were bad before Whitner was on the roster, when he was on the roster, and after he left the roster. The majority of the criticisms directed toward him is due to the fact that he represents the failure of a hometown organization to make wise decisions. That is not his fault

 

Whatever you think of Donte, a mediocre player, when he played for us he played hard and with passion. He was a good team player who in his way tried to be a leader. He doesn't deserve this unwarranted assault on him because he with his lofty draft status represented why this is a failed organization.

 

I simpy believe that a lot of the criticisms he is attracting is due to the fact that he left a loser organization and landed on a SB competing team. Good for him. I wish him well. You can wish him ill-will if you want. That is your prerogative. What is it going to get you?

[JohnC]

Donte Whitner is symbolic of every single thing that is wrong with this team. His selection, attitude and his level of play point to why this team is where it is, and this includes much of what you mentioned.

Badol is expressing his opinion about his level of play, which btw clearly cost his team a superbowl. He thinks (and I agree) that Whitner is a mediocre at best safety. Why are you so invested in his opinion of one football player? Why not leave it alone and perhaps you will see his side on other issues? Or maybe not, but at least there is room for interesting, constructive dialogue.

 

The highlighted quote is exactly my point. How was his selection his fault? He was always a mediocre player. No one is disputing that, at least I am not. His selection was not simply a bad selection, it was outright weird. The selection of Levy to be a GM was just as weird. The selection of Nix without a serious search effort was again weird. My point is that Whitner has unfairly become a symbol of how this odd organization operates. People are infuriated by it. But why blame him and why make him the symbol of such futility?

 

Whatever criticism you have of Whitner when he was with the Bills you can't say that he didn't play hard and with passion. He tried to be a leader. He was simply an average talent on a team with below average players.

 

I have strenuously come to his defense because I don't believe that he is being treated fairly. He has become a symbol (as you noted) of the irrationality of a failed organization. That is not his fault. That should not be his burden.

 

He has had the opportunity to escape the lunacy of a an archaic organization and be with an intelligently run franchise. That has resulted in the priviledge of playing in the SB. More power to him. I wish him well. Some people resent the fact that a mediocre player has found himself in a fortuitious situation while their lackluster team continues to be stuck in the mud. All I can say is that resentmen is not going to get you out of the mud.

Edited February 16, 2013 by JohnC

[Orton's Arm]

I just find it absurd that a former Bill has become a whipping boy from Bills' fans.

 

You tell me what is driving this bogeyman attack on him? That he is a jerk? You don't think that the Bills have had and do have their share of jerks? Is he the only twitter fool you know of in the league?

 

As I stated before the Bills were bad before Whitner was on the roster, when he was on the roster, and after he left the roster. The majority of the criticisms directed toward him is due to the fact that he represents the failure of a hometown organization to make wise decisions. That is not his fault

 

Whatever you think of Donte, a mediocre player, when he played for us he played hard and with passion. He was a good team player who in his way tried to be a leader. He doesn't deserve this unwarranted assault on him because he with his lofty draft status represented why this is a failed organization.

 

I simpy believe that a lot of the criticisms he is attracting is due to the fact that he left a loser organization and landed on a SB competing team. Good for him. I wish him well. You can wish him ill-will if you want. That is your prerogative. What is it going to get you?

 

> You tell me what is driving this bogeyman attack on him? That he is a jerk?

 

We're agreed that he's a jerk, and that he's self-centered. His personality, or lack thereof, is one of the reasons why he's received negative attention on these forums.

 

> Whatever you think of Donte, a mediocre player, when he played for us he played hard and with passion.

 

I'll grant he'll give you a few highlight reel hits every now and then. That in itself should not necessarily be taken to mean that he plays every snap with passion. Other than his occasional hard hits, what evidence do you have that he plays any harder than is normal for a starting safety?

 

> He doesn't deserve this unwarranted assault on him because he with his lofty draft status represented why this is a failed organization.

 

Why are you emotionally invested in defending him?

 

> I simpy believe that a lot of the criticisms he is attracting is due to the fact that he left a loser organization and landed on a SB competing team.

 

I can't speak for others, but I felt no bitterness over the fact that Rob Johnson was part of the Bucs team which won the Super Bowl. Like Whitner, Johnson also cost the Bills a first round pick, and also didn't work out as planned. Likewise, I felt no resentment toward Antoine Winfield for being part of a reasonably well-run Vikings organization; or toward Antowain Smith for being part of the Patriots' first two Super Bowl wins. (I objected to the first round pick-->first-contract-and-out drafting strategy Winfield represented, but never took my frustration out on Winfield personally, either as a person or as a player.)

 

Several differences between those guys and Whitner:

• By the time those guys left the Bills, none were associated with empty hype. Compare that to Whitner, who received a completely unearned Pro Bowl invitation. Plus plenty of (completely undeserved) support on these forums.
  
• Whitner's mouth is bigger than the other three guys' mouths combined.
  

As a team, the 49ers worked very, very hard to achieve everything they did. They came so close to winning it all. After the Super Bowl, did Whitner apologize to his teammates or the fans for letting them down so very badly? Did he express a sense of remorse, of heartbreak, because his own failures had prevented his teammates' hard work from resulting in a Super Bowl win? No. He did none of these things, took no responsibility for the Super Bowl loss, and did not acknowledge the effect his poor play had on his teammates or the fans. Whitner's putrid performance cost his team a lot more points than Norwood's missed kick cost the Bills. But instead of showing any sign of Norwood-style heartbreak, Whitner briefly acknowledged he could have played better, and then almost immediately began bragging about hypothetical future accomplishments.

 

Had Whitner said, "I'm heartbroken because of how I let my teammates down," my respect for him would have increased. But nothing I've seen from Whitner which would suggest that he does care about how badly he hurt his team. That being the case, why should you care about protecting him from hostility on message boards like this?

Edited February 16, 2013 by Edwards' Arm

[San Jose Bills Fan]

JohnC,

 

There are very valid reasons why former Bills such as London Fletcher, Takeo Spikes, Antoine Winfield, Jabbari Greer, etc are looked upon fondly and positively and very valid reasons why guys like Jason Peters, Marshawn Lynch, and Donte Whitner are not.

[JohnC]

JohnC,

 

There are very valid reasons why former Bills such as London Fletcher, Takeo Spikes, Antoine Winfield, Jabbari Greer, etc are looked upon fondly and positively and very valid reasons why guys like Jason Peters, Marshawn Lynch, and Donte Whitner are not.

 

The assault on Donte is very much different from the negative views expressed toward Peters andLynch. What I and others, such as NYC Bill, have noted is that Donte has come to symbolize everything that is wrong with this flummoxed franchise. The drafting of Whitner while bypassing exceptional prospects such as Ngata infuriated the fanbase. His selecton was outright bizaare. That is not his fault.

 

Dante is an inconsequential player who is also a talker who plays on a prominent team. That irks a lot of people, especially the long suffering fans of a very irrelevant franchise. His offense that has inflamed many of his bashers was that he was a horrendous pick by this odd duck franchise. He is getting pummelled not for him being the inconsequential player that he is but for him being a symbol embodying the foolishness of a backwater organization. That is not fair.

Edited February 16, 2013 by JohnC