Why the final Niners play was definitely NOT holding

[Keukasmallies]

As soon as we reach consensus, let's call the Commissioner and ask for a mulligan.

[dogman]

On the pass play the CBs left hand actually pulls on the Jersey. That's holding everywhere on the field. Should be a rule change on the safety. A holding call in the endzone gives your team a safety-exactly what the Ravens were trying to get. Smart call by Ravens!

[Gugny]

Perhaps giving up 3 Flacco TD passes in the first half has more to do with losing than one questionable call at the end of the game.

[KD in CA]

Perhaps giving up 3 Flacco TD passes in the first half has more to do with losing than one questionable call at the end of the game.

Or kicking FGs on 3 red zone possessions. Or turning the ball over twice.

[ExiledInIllinois]

WTF are you talking about? Since when do they put time back on the clock when someone is flagged for offensive holding?

 

I was under the impression that since the penalty is not in the field of play but, the endzone and hence the penalty results in an immediate score (safety)... The play stops when the score happens right? Just like other scores?

 

The safety and score was committed and completed on the penalty. NOT when the kicker left the endzone. Shouldn't a whistle go off the second there is a score?

[2003Contenders]

IMHO it was a very close call. There was definitely contact, which did begin within the 5-yard range, but I saw contact from both Crabtree and Smith. Smith did get ahold of some cloth, but he certainly did not mug Crabtree. As a somewhat unbiased viewer with no real rooting interest at stake in that game, I honestly am glad that the officials did NOT throw the flag there, as that would have been more of an instance of them interjecting themselves into the game's outcome than if they had left the flag in their pocket.

 

Put me on the side of those who prefer when the refs are not (as Marv once famously said) "over-officious jerks". The crew was fairly consistent throughout the game in allowing the DBs to use their hands quite a bit. In fact, there was a MUCH more blatant hold on the part of the 49ers in the 1st quarter on a long pass that would have set the Ravens up inside the redzone. In fact, without the hold on that particular play, I believe Torey Smith (I believe) would have scored a long TD -- so it turned out to be a smart play on the defender's part.

[ExiledInIllinois]

As soon as we reach consensus, let's call the Commissioner and ask for a mulligan.

 

See that is the thing. There was obvious holding. The other side said he pushed off. IMO, Crabtree pushed off because he was held! Anyway, at the very most even... There should have been offsetting penalties (or a mulligan). That seems fair in my book. What the refs did "by letting the play" and throwing the rule book out the window is to basically give or "push" the outcome in Baltimore's favor.

 

 

 

I believe that every obvious penalty that occurs should incur a flag. It just happens that the play being discussed was at the end of the game....hence the opinion that it should have been flagged.....just like any other obvious penalty.

 

That being said however....penalties(or non called penalties) are actually more important for the refs to get correct, as the effected team has no chance to overcome the ref's error, unlike during a mid game ref stuff-up.

 

I would be spitting chips if I was a 49ers fan.

(Is that a purely Aussie exp<b></b>ression?)

 

EXACTLY.

 

It is the reason why the NHL gives penalties @ the 20:00 (60:00) or end of game even when there is a clear winner! The NFL should do the same. WhoTF are the refs to say: "The game is decided, let's pack it in!" WTF! That is worse than "Just Give It To Them!" And that is exactly my point, CULTURE in the NFL among the regular refs... What, they pack it in because they don't want to be bothered.

 

They "push" outcomes this way. The game is NOT fixed but, they do everything in their power to bend the rules and push outcomes that they secretly deem as "favorable outcomes in the interest of the league."

 

Sure as we all sh*t... BFLO NEVER gets the favorable end of that call... Even in the Super Bowl years... Sure somebody brought up The Comeback... But that was multiple plays removed.

 

IMHO it was a very close call. There was definitely contact, which did begin within the 5-yard range, but I saw contact from both Crabtree and Smith. Smith did get ahold of some cloth, but he certainly did not mug Crabtree. As a somewhat unbiased viewer with no real rooting interest at stake in that game, I honestly am glad that the officials did NOT throw the flag there, as that would have been more of an instance of them interjecting themselves into the game's outcome than if they had left the flag in their pocket.

 

Put me on the side of those who prefer when the refs are not (as Marv once famously said) "over-officious jerks". The crew was fairly consistent throughout the game in allowing the DBs to use their hands quite a bit. In fact, there was a MUCH more blatant hold on the part of the 49ers in the 1st quarter on a long pass that would have set the Ravens up inside the redzone. In fact, without the hold on that particular play, I believe Torey Smith (I believe) would have scored a long TD -- so it turned out to be a smart play on the defender's part.

 

But they were calling ticky tacky procedure calls and the side judge would run to the spot as crooked as a drunk 3 sheets to the wind!

 

This game and "let them play" was an NHL style abortion. They lost control early and the fights.and chippy style ensued to the point where the game was decided (or had to or not) on a chippy play.

 

On the pass play the CBs left hand actually pulls on the Jersey. That's holding everywhere on the field. Should be a rule change on the safety. A holding call in the endzone gives your team a safety-exactly what the Ravens were trying to get. Smart call by Ravens!

 

That is what I want to know. Does the whistle blow immediately when there is a safety on a penalty or do they let the guy run around for 20 seconds? It is a a score. The penalty should immediately be the score and the clock stopped. If the clock doesn't, this seems inconsistent with the rest of the game? There should be a rule change to close this loop hole.

[FireChan]

See that is the thing. There was obvious holding. The other side said he pushed off. IMO, Crabtree pushed off because he was held! Anyway, at the very most even... There should have been offsetting penalties (or a mulligan). That seems fair in my book. What the refs did "by letting the play" and throwing the rule book out the window is to basically give or "push" the outcome in Baltimore's favor.

 

 

 

EXACTLY.

 

It is the reason why the NHL gives penalties @ the 20:00 (60:00) or end of game even when there is a clear winner! The NFL should do the same. WhoTF are the refs to say: "The game is decided, let's pack it in!" WTF! That is worse than "Just Give It To Them!" And that is exactly my point, CULTURE in the NFL among the regular refs... What, they pack it in because they don't want to be bothered.

 

They "push" outcomes this way. The game is NOT fixed but, they do everything in their power to bend the rules and push outcomes that they secretly deem as "favorable outcomes in the interest of the league."

 

Sure as we all sh*t... BFLO NEVER gets the favorable end of that call... Even in the Super Bowl years... Sure somebody brought up The Comeback... But that was multiple plays removed.

 

 

 

But they were calling ticky tacky procedure calls and the side judge would run to the spot as crooked as a drunk 3 sheets to the wind!

 

This game and "let them play" was an NHL style abortion. They lost control early and the fights.and chippy style ensued to the point where the game was decided (or had to or not) on a chippy play.

 

 

 

That is what I want to know. Does the whistle blow immediately when there is a safety on a penalty or do they let the guy run around for 20 seconds? It is a a score. The penalty should immediately be the score and the clock stopped. If the clock doesn't, this seems inconsistent with the rest of the game? There should be a rule change to close this loop hole.

 

Because of one Super Bowl play, change the rules? Are you serious man? They should change offsides to stop the play too, huh, cause it's unfair to the defense when the offense has a free play. Don't be ridiculous.

 

After the Bills Wide Right, there should be a rule change to make the field goal posts wider. The better team won, deal with it.

[KD in CA]

I was under the impression that since the penalty is not in the field of play but, the endzone and hence the penalty results in an immediate score (safety)... The play stops when the score happens right? Just like other scores?

 

The safety and score was committed and completed on the penalty. NOT when the kicker left the endzone. Shouldn't a whistle go off the second there is a score?

 

Penalties don't create scores. Obviously the play has to be run to its conclusion. How do you know the punter isn't going to fumble the ball and the 49ers recover for a TD?

[Alan Davidson]

Remember, to quote Larry Felser, the further along in the season and into the playoffs you go, the flags get deeper in the pockets.

 

I think he said this after some of the muggings Andre Reed and James Lofton experienced in the Washington Super Bowl.

 

Also, remember Ken Norton Jr.'s uncalled face mask at the goal line in the first Dallas super bowl.

[Buftex]

That ball wasn't uncatchable. Was about one step away from being able to make a play on it.

 

Agreed. I don't mind that they didn't make a call, but that ball was only uncatcable if you assume that the contact with the defender didn't slow down Crabtree at all (meaing he is really, really slow) and that Crabtree has no vertical leap whatsover...none.

[JPS]

If Crabtree runs upfield instead of into the defender, there's a parade in SF today.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

Because of one Super Bowl play, change the rules? Are you serious man? They should change offsides to stop the play too, huh, cause it's unfair to the defense when the offense has a free play. Don't be ridiculous.

 

After the Bills Wide Right, there should be a rule change to make the field goal posts wider. The better team won, deal with it.

 

I am talking about a score. What happened seems like a loophole that BAL played brilliantly. Yes, they should change the rules to where the whistle stops on the immediate action of a score. The score occurred on the gross penalties (that the refs put their glasses away for) NOT when the kicker left the endzone.

 

IMO, just seems grossly inconsistent w/the spirit of the game.

 

 

 

Penalties don't create scores. Obviously the play has to be run to its conclusion. How do you know the punter isn't going to fumble the ball and the 49ers recover for a TD?

 

Good point. In this case, a penalty does score and should stop the play immediately. IMO.

 

If Crabtree runs upfield instead of into the defender, there's a parade in SF today.

 

In basketball, that is a defensive foul and every body is screaming if it wasn't called. Simply, Crabtree was held from getting to WHERE HE WANTED TO BE. That is the definition of holding.

[Maddog69]

i don't see why everybody has their panties in a bunch about this. If you look close enough, you could throw multiple penalty flags on just about every single play of every single game. The officials in this game pretty much decided from the start that they were going to keep their flags in their pockets. There were a ton of plays during the game that could have been called. It is kind of silly to focus on only the very last few. The refs did not "push" a particular outcome. They let the players battle it out on the field and they did not let a flag decide the game. It was a very entertaining game to watch. The end was exciting and the intrique of the intentional safety was great.

[Rubes]

I am talking about a score. What happened seems like a loophole that BAL played brilliantly. Yes, they should change the rules to where the whistle stops on the immediate action of a score. The score occurred on the gross penalties (that the refs put their glasses away for) NOT when the kicker left the endzone.

 

IMO, just seems grossly inconsistent w/the spirit of the game.

 

Sorry, this is football. Penalties never, ever, ever stop a play from running through to its completion once the ball is snapped. Dead-ball fouls, of course -- such as illegal procedure -- are called before the ball is snapped. That is consistent throughout the game of professional football. There is no inconsistency there. It has always been that way. It is not a loophole.

 

As KD said, there are many possible outcomes from a play, and once a penalty occurs during the flow of a play, the play is allowed to finish completely so that other possible outcomes can be allowed to happen.

[ExiledInIllinois]

The officials in this game pretty much decided from the start that they were going to keep their flags in their pockets.

 

LoL

 

That is why they threw a flag on the first play from scrimmage.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, this is football. Penalties never, ever, ever stop a play from running through to its completion once the ball is snapped. Dead-ball fouls, of course -- such as illegal procedure -- are called before the ball is snapped. That is consistent throughout the game of professional football. There is no inconsistency there. It has always been that way. It is not a loophole.

 

As KD said, there are many possible outcomes from a play, and once a penalty occurs during the flow of a play, the play is allowed to finish completely so that other possible outcomes can be allowed to happen.

 

Fair enough.

[atlbillsfan1975]

It was Karma.

The 49ers stoped the Falcons with similar type coverage to get into the Super Bowl.

Roddy White was clearly contacted before the ball reached him by Bowman on the fourth down play to end the game. No call, game over. Can't have it both ways.

[Doc]

If Crabtree runs upfield instead of into the defender, there's a parade in SF today.

Not necessarily. The score would have at-best been 37-34 SF with 1:45 left on the clock, the Ravens with all 3 TO's left, and the 49'ers having to kick it to Jones.

[BillsBytheBay]

Take a look at the Safety where the punter ran out of the endzone. There was holding all over the place linemen were tackled. What's the point? Few seconds maybe, maybe someone hits the punter and causes a fumble. Point is throw the flag when you are suppose to throw the flag.

nah, they called the game even for both teams. They let them play. The good thing is we can focus on this one thing, and lose interest I a week. If the refs been throwing flags all day, ok i'd be mad. But I watched the whole game. No ejections, and easy on the flags. It was actually nice to see a game played that way..... remember when we used to complain the game was getting to soft.........

[Pondslider]

If Crabtree runs upfield instead of into the defender, there's a parade in SF today.

 

Crabtree was probably instructed to try and run through the CB figuring either they'd get the call and a 1st down or they'd catch the ball and get the TD. Neither happened. I still blame the coach for calling those passing plays inside the 5.