Pocket Passer Does It Again

[KOKBILLS]

Just a note worth discussing. We have been hearing since Vick, the game is changing mobile QB's are more versatile and is the movement in the NFL. I know Kaepernick is young, and he will/may have his time to win the big one, but the fact of the matter is that even back to Warren Moon we haven't seen the ultra mobile QB win the Super Bowl. We saw yesterday that a really immobile Flacco totally outplayed Kaep.

 

I think the pocket passer will continue to be the better option for the next decade. The mobile QB has a shorter shelf life, and when defenses figure them out, they at the end of the day have to beat them with their heads and arms. The amount of great athletes in the last few drafts at the QB position is interesting, but from Newton to RG3 to Kaepernick, we may never see them win the big one while Flacco, Luck, and Brady continue to rack up the big wins in the post season

 

Flame Away!

 

Kaepernick, RGIII, Newton, and Wilson all have the potential to be great pocket-style passers...I think this trend has only just begun...As more and more of these kids come into the NFL, I think a couple of them will become great pocket passers...But they'll still have that Elway-like ability to kill you with their feet...

 

I just feel we've only seen the tip of the iceberg...

[TallskiWallski83]

I understand the whole "scrambling QB's" havent won a superbowl argument you are making, but there is no way you can tell me that Flacco outplayed Kaepernick in that game. Also the scramblers in the league now (Kap, Wilson, RGIII) are on a whole different level than Vick ever was. They can all sit in the pocket and make laser throws if they need to. I think that the tide of the league is shifting towards having a QB who can run, that isnt to say that true pocket passers are going anywhere because the elite decision makers like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees dont need to run to be effective. Lastly, Warren Moon was never a scrambling QB I think you meant Randall Cunningham

[Malazan]

I understand the whole "scrambling QB's" havent won a superbowl argument you are making, but there is no way you can tell me that Flacco outplayed Kaepernick in that game. Also the scramblers in the league now (Kap, Wilson, RGIII) are on a whole different level than Vick ever was. They can all sit in the pocket and make laser throws if they need to. I think that the tide of the league is shifting towards having a QB who can run, that isnt to say that true pocket passers are going anywhere because the elite decision makers like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees dont need to run to be effective. Lastly, Warren Moon was never a scrambling QB I think you meant Randall Cunningham

 

Kaepernick had a terrible few series and threw up a terrible interception. I think he redeemed himself, but Flacco was more efficient. What specifically about the game makes you feel that Kaepernick was better?

[NoSaint]

I understand the whole "scrambling QB's" havent won a superbowl argument you are making, but there is no way you can tell me that Flacco outplayed Kaepernick in that game. Also the scramblers in the league now (Kap, Wilson, RGIII) are on a whole different level than Vick ever was. They can all sit in the pocket and make laser throws if they need to. I think that the tide of the league is shifting towards having a QB who can run, that isnt to say that true pocket passers are going anywhere because the elite decision makers like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees dont need to run to be effective. Lastly, Warren Moon was never a scrambling QB I think you meant Randall Cunningham

 

Yes and no. Vick had a cannon but wasnt a great decision maker and was often beat up after a full season. If he could trot out in December on a team that was essentially in the playoffs without him, he might've gone just as far.

 

Wilson is very good at avoiding hits so far but isn't a huge guy

 

CK still has to figure out his progressions, and touch to reach his potential

 

Rg3 just has to learn how to avoid a hit and not listen to shanahan over doctors.

 

 

The truth of the matter is a quarterback has an INCREDIBLY rare skill set and takes catching some lightning in a bottle (healthy, good team and coaches, and a few lucky bounces).... Finding a 1 in a hundred million skill set is hard enough without adding in the odds that this guy can run a 4.5 dash too. It's like winning the lotto then investing that money in a stock that doubles in the first year.

[Dragonborn10]

I'm starting to get sold more and more on arm strength. Both Flacco and Kaepernick have cannons. We have not seen that type of arm since Bledose. I know the winters in Buffalo aren't what they used to be but the spaces in which you have to throw the ball are only getting smaller. Fitz makes the TD throw to Bouldin without any issue. But the TD laser to the TE would have been a batted ball or INT if Fitz was making that throw

[RuntheDamnBall]

How about Kellen Moore???? Could we trade for Detroits 3rd string QB? He is a pocket passer true and true. Very accurate with mid and deap throws. He has the highest winning percentage amongst all QBs across all divisions over the previous four years. The knocks against him is that he is only 6'(maybe) and that he is not known to scramble. He also is not known to have a strong arm, yet watching him over his four years in Boise, he is extremely accurate no matter where the ball is thrown(deep, mid,or screen). He is a mastermind of opposing defenses and is a son of a coach. His record is 50-3 through 4 years at BSU. Beat the Ducks twice. The biggest foe to his career has not been any BCS team, but rather the Nevada led Kapernick team. Even with these losses, Kellen was the best QB, the loss was due to a kicker. This kid is not huge or overly athelthetic, but is extremely intelligent. He knows the opposing defense better than their coordinator does. He is a winner, period. I would love to see him under center and learning as he goes than any other QB that B-Lo has had the past 15 plus years.

I am a Kellen Moore fan, but as with Ryan Mallett, Kirk Cousins or any of these dudes, the time to get them would have been in the draft. That is, we could have had them THEN instead of any number of guys whom we cut and are bagging groceries, or are sucking ass on the field for us.

 

It makes precious little sense to pay a premium, with extra draft picks going to a competitor, on the kind of guy you can probably find in this upcoming draft. It doesn't make sense unless you are dead certain he is the one (and then, how could your mind have changed so much when you just recently refused to use a late pick on the guy in the draft?). I am not sure I feel that way about Moore, Cousins or Mallett.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Just a note worth discussing. We have been hearing since Vick, the game is changing mobile QB's are more versatile and is the movement in the NFL. I know Kaepernick is young, and he will/may have his time to win the big one, but the fact of the matter is that even back to Warren Moon we haven't seen the ultra mobile QB win the Super Bowl. We saw yesterday that a really immobile Flacco totally outplayed Kaep.

 

I think the pocket passer will continue to be the better option for the next decade. The mobile QB has a shorter shelf life, and when defenses figure them out, they at the end of the day have to beat them with their heads and arms. The amount of great athletes in the last few drafts at the QB position is interesting, but from Newton to RG3 to Kaepernick, we may never see them win the big one while Flacco, Luck, and Brady continue to rack up the big wins in the post season

 

Flame Away!

 

I understand the point you're trying to make in spite of not agreeing with everything you wrote.

 

Out of curiosity, do you consider Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben to be "pocket passers?"

 

I understand the whole "scrambling QB's" havent won a superbowl argument you are making, but there is no way you can tell me that Flacco outplayed Kaepernick in that game.

 

Both QBs played really well.

 

Flacco was amazing. I knew he was peaking and playing the best ball of his career but I was still surprised at the plays where he used his legs effectively to buy time and was also was surprised at his flawless decision making and perfect throws.

 

Even factoring in Kaep's brilliant TD run, I think Flacco was a bit better yesterday.

 

I am a Kellen Moore fan, but as with Ryan Mallett, Kirk Cousins or any of these dudes, the time to get them would have been in the draft. That is, we could have had them THEN instead of any number of guys whom we cut and are bagging groceries, or are sucking ass on the field for us.

 

It makes precious little sense to pay a premium, with extra draft picks going to a competitor, on the kind of guy you can probably find in this upcoming draft. It doesn't make sense unless you are dead certain he is the one (and then, how could your mind have changed so much when you just recently refused to use a late pick on the guy in the draft?). I am not sure I feel that way about Moore, Cousins or Mallett.

 

I don't view Kellen Moore as "an answer" but I do think that at some point it's inevitable that he be given an actual chance to succeed or fail. He certainly deserves that. Hopefully it comes sooner rather than later as it did with Flutie.

 

That said, Moore could probably be had for cheap, compared to Mallett and Cousins.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I don't view Kellen Moore as "an answer" but I do think that at some point it's inevitable that he be given an actual chance to succeed or fail. He certainly deserves that. Hopefully it comes sooner rather than later as it did with Flutie.

 

That said, Moore could probably be had for cheap, compared to Mallett and Cousins.

I think he is more valuable to the Lions than a fourth rounder, and I am not sure it's a real bright idea for this team to give up anything more. They need the kind of talent that R1-3 picks get you. I'd LOVE to see the guy get a chance because I loved his game and his work ethic in college, but I just don't see it. The only scenario where I see it happening is if the Bills acquire a late 3rd somehow and the Lions are game.

 

Realistically, moving your backup QB when your starter is injury-prone makes little sense. I guess Moore is #3 there but who knows for how long, since Shaun Hill is getting up there.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I think he is more valuable to the Lions than a fourth rounder, and I am not sure it's a real bright idea for this team to give up anything more. They need the kind of talent that R1-3 picks get you. I'd LOVE to see the guy get a chance because I loved his game and his work ethic in college, but I just don't see it. The only scenario where I see it happening is if the Bills acquire a late 3rd somehow and the Lions are game.

 

Realistically, moving your backup QB when your starter is injury-prone makes little sense. I guess Moore is #3 there but who knows for how long, since Shaun Hill is getting up there.

 

I'd offer a 6th or 7th.

 

I guess it won't happen then.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I'd offer a 6th or 7th.

 

I guess it won't happen then.

Yeah, I just don't see a scenario where they are that eager to acquire a 6-7 pick. I guess by the book it's spinning straw into, uh, copper, but he still would seem to be more valuable to the Lions.

[TallskiWallski83]

Kaepernick had a terrible few series and threw up a terrible interception. I think he redeemed himself, but Flacco was more efficient. What specifically about the game makes you feel that Kaepernick was better?

 

I didnt say he was better. Both QBs played incredibly well and the game came down to the final seconds. OP is stating the obvious that pocket passers are the only ones who win SBs which historically has been true. However, the game yesterday came down to the final moments because Kaep led an incredible comeback...eventually a runner is going to win this thing and all this nonsense will be thrown out the window.

 

Kaep is the real deal. He may have the best arm out of any QB in the NFL and I literally have no idea how any defense in the NFL is going to be able to stop the 49ers over the next 5 years as he only gets better and better and they maintain their dominate O line.

[ny33]

I think he is more valuable to the Lions than a fourth rounder, and I am not sure it's a real bright idea for this team to give up anything more. They need the kind of talent that R1-3 picks get you. I'd LOVE to see the guy get a chance because I loved his game and his work ethic in college, but I just don't see it. The only scenario where I see it happening is if the Bills acquire a late 3rd somehow and the Lions are game.

 

Realistically, moving your backup QB when your starter is injury-prone makes little sense. I guess Moore is #3 there but who knows for how long, since Shaun Hill is getting up there.

 

Kellen Moore is worth a sixth at best.

[truth on hold]

Funny thing CK is fast and takes off sometimes, but he uses his speed wisely and doesn't take a lot of hits. when the pocket collapses he tends to fold the tent and protect himself like a Brady, and under blitz he dumps it off quickly. If anything I'm surprised he isn't better under pressure and doesn't extend plays longer. He's definitely not a big Ben type who hangs in there and takes big hits.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack

[ganesh]

I was really shocked that they didnt run Kaepernick more in the 4th quarter---esp toward the end-when the fat Balt D linemen were completely winded. Seemed like he could do whatever he wanted to out there.

I am surprised that the Niners lost this one and surprised w some of the offensive play calls in the 4th.

Kaepernick has out of this world skill.

 

 

 

Completely agree with that. And kaep has skill in every aspect of QBing.I dont see any weaknesses there exc inexperience.

 

Kaepernick did have a read-option in that last 4-downs and he changed the play

[RuntheDamnBall]

Kellen Moore is worth a sixth at best.

I don't disagree, but fat chance Detroit sees it that way.

[The Wiz]

A. Warren Moon was a statue

B. Steve Young was pretty good...and mobile

C. Elway was uber- mobile and a fantastic athlete.

D. Rothlisberger moves around in the pocket better than most .

E. Even the epitome of a statue, Joe Flacco, made the biggest throws of the playoffs after moving up in the pocket.

 

I guess my point is: all great QBs know when it's time to stay and when it's time to go. Even the most statuesque pocket passers, the great ones that is, know how to slide to clean air.

 

I think the new breed will be good at both. Newton, Luck, Wilson and Kaepernick can throw with the best of them and run when necessary.

If you're referring to the TD pass to Jones I agree but one that sticks out more to me is when he gets flushed out of the pocket and ran to the sideline, looked like he was throwing the ball away and completed a 31 yard pass instead.

[ny33]

I don't disagree, but fat chance Detroit sees it that way.

 

Did he do anything over the regular season to improve his outlook as an NFL player as compared to during the draft process? He was an UDFA who might be a decent backup.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Did he do anything over the regular season to improve his outlook as an NFL player as compared to during the draft process? He was an UDFA who might be a decent backup.

Does it much matter? Consider this trade as a precedent. Now, Whitehurst was a third rounder himself so I'll give you that, but if Detroit thinks Moore could be replaced by a 6th rounder, they probably won't be keeping him around for long, because why invest in a guy at all and then move him for only a 6th? Another team is only going to trade for him if it thinks he has starting potential; backups can be had on the cheap. Like it or not, Detroit would be looking at this from the position of an owner of an asset with value.

 

It's kind of like owning a second car that you like and gets the job done, maybe isn't remarkable, but you're not going to sell it for ten dollars to someone who really needs a car just because you have an extra one.

[JPS]

If you're referring to the TD pass to Jones I agree but one that sticks out more to me is when he gets flushed out of the pocket and ran to the sideline, looked like he was throwing the ball away and completed a 31 yard pass instead.

Even better. Great point.

[ny33]

Does it much matter? Consider this trade as a precedent. Now, Whitehurst was a third rounder himself so I'll give you that, but if Detroit thinks Moore could be replaced by a 6th rounder, they probably won't be keeping him around for long, because why invest in a guy at all and then move him for only a 6th? Another team is only going to trade for him if it thinks he has starting potential; backups can be had on the cheap. Like it or not, Detroit would be looking at this from the position of an owner of an asset with value.

 

It's kind of like owning a second car that you like and gets the job done, maybe isn't remarkable, but you're not going to sell it for ten dollars to someone who really needs a car just because you have an extra one.

 

They didn't spend a pick on him, and like Shaun Hill as a backup. I do think that they'd consider a 6th round pick a good return for an UDFA slated to be a backup QB. I doubt anyone in the NFL sees him as anything but a potential quality backup.