Mango Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Just a note worth discussing. We have been hearing since Vick, the game is changing mobile QB's are more versatile and is the movement in the NFL. I know Kaepernick is young, and he will/may have his time to win the big one, but the fact of the matter is that even back to Warren Moon we haven't seen the ultra mobile QB win the Super Bowl. We saw yesterday that a really immobile Flacco totally outplayed Kaep. I think the pocket passer will continue to be the better option for the next decade. The mobile QB has a shorter shelf life, and when defenses figure them out, they at the end of the day have to beat them with their heads and arms. The amount of great athletes in the last few drafts at the QB position is interesting, but from Newton to RG3 to Kaepernick, we may never see them win the big one while Flacco, Luck, and Brady continue to rack up the big wins in the post season Flame Away!
jaybee Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 No flaming here. Can't argue with fact. As much fun as these guys are to watch, its just too risky of a strategy in the NFL where guys can get crushed. I do like the way Russel Wilson is playing though. Does a decent job of avoiding the big hit. RGIII on the other hand. That poor kid is gonna get killed. Good post. Mobile pocket passers will always be around in this league and the read option will "probably" be a short term fad but I've been wrong before.
BobChalmers Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Kaepernick is younger than Flacco as you qualify - but there may be a deeper truth to your point in that even - which is how does a running QB survive long enough to become a veteran like Flacco, much less Brady or Manning? That Kaepernick was as good as he is/was though at such a young age may be what tips the scales - college QB's are throwing more - even the most moble of them - so they don't need as long to develop, which means over time the NFL may have a steady supply of effctive young ones, and not unlike the RB's today they may have much shorter careers and become much more expendable.
Punch Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Did Kaepernick not have a brilliant 2nd half in which he very nearly pulled off what would have been the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history? Certainly the deficit spotted him had more to do with the 49ers sieve of a D in the 1st and a SB record KO return for TD to start the 3rd Q, though he admittedly struggled early. I think his early game struggles had more to do with his relative inexperience than his style of play. It's like when Bill Parcells said "Power football still wins!" after SB XXV. If Norwood makes that kick, the No-Huddle wins. Brilliant game-planning, playcalling and execution won SB XXV, not a particular style. And the same was true yesterday. Edited February 4, 2013 by Punch
Rockinon Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 No flaming here. Can't argue with fact. As much fun as these guys are to watch, its just too risky of a strategy in the NFL where guys can get crushed. I do like the way Russel Wilson is playing though. Does a decent job of avoiding the big hit. RGIII on the other hand. That poor kid is gonna get killed. Good post. Mobile pocket passers will always be around in this league and the read option will "probably" be a short term fad but I've been wrong before. Brady is using the read option.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Did Kaepernick not have a brilliant 2nd half in which he very nearly pulled off what would have been the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history? Certainly the deficit spotted him had more to do with the 49ers sieve of a D in the 1st and a SB record KO return for TD to start the 3rd Q, though he admittedly struggled early. I think his early game struggles had more to do with his relative inexperience than his style of play. It's like when Bill Parcells said "Power football still wins!" after SB XXV. If Norwood makes that kick, the No-Huddle wins. Brilliant game-planning, playcalling and execution won SB XXV, not a particular style. And the same was true yesterday. +1 The fact that the Ravens won the Superbowl means nothing more than the fact that the Ravens won the game. The 49ers' inability to gain 5 yards in one particular situation doesn't really act as a referendum on mobile QBs.
Tcali Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 I was really shocked that they didnt run Kaepernick more in the 4th quarter---esp toward the end-when the fat Balt D linemen were completely winded. Seemed like he could do whatever he wanted to out there. I am surprised that the Niners lost this one and surprised w some of the offensive play calls in the 4th. Kaepernick has out of this world skill. +1 The fact that the Ravens won the Superbowl means nothing more than the fact that the Ravens won the game. The 49ers' inability to gain 5 yards in one particular situation doesn't really act as a referendum on mobile QBs. Completely agree with that. And kaep has skill in every aspect of QBing.I dont see any weaknesses there exc inexperience.
Astrobot Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Translating this to the current crop of Round 2 QBs, you'll likely have the nearly-immobile "pocket passers" Ryan Nassib (10.54yards per game rushing), Tyler Wilson (+0.64 yards per game rushing), Tyler Bray (-3 yards per game rushing), Matt Barkley (-6.55 yards per game rushing), Landry Jones (-7 yards per game rushing), vs the mobile EJ Manuel who has the highest yards per attempt of 8.8, 310 rush yards this season , and 242 yards of passing per game, and the mobile Optimus Klein, who has a yards per attempt of 8.7 925 rush yards this season , and 925 yards of passing per game, and the "mobile" Geno Smith with 8.2 yards per attempt, 167 rush yards this season, and 322.9 yards passing per game. Let's take two. Edited February 5, 2013 by Astrobot
Ramius Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Just a note worth discussing. We have been hearing since Vick, the game is changing mobile QB's are more versatile and is the movement in the NFL. I know Kaepernick is young, and he will/may have his time to win the big one, but the fact of the matter is that even back to Warren Moon we haven't seen the ultra mobile QB win the Super Bowl. We saw yesterday that a really immobile Flacco totally outplayed Kaep. I think the pocket passer will continue to be the better option for the next decade. The mobile QB has a shorter shelf life, and when defenses figure them out, they at the end of the day have to beat them with their heads and arms. The amount of great athletes in the last few drafts at the QB position is interesting, but from Newton to RG3 to Kaepernick, we may never see them win the big one while Flacco, Luck, and Brady continue to rack up the big wins in the post season Flame Away! What makes you say that Warren Moon was an "ultra mobile" QB? Was it his career average of 8 rushing yards per game?
Mr. WEO Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Just a note worth discussing. We have been hearing since Vick, the game is changing mobile QB's are more versatile and is the movement in the NFL. I know Kaepernick is young, and he will/may have his time to win the big one, but the fact of the matter is that even back to Warren Moon we haven't seen the ultra mobile QB win the Super Bowl. We saw yesterday that a really immobile Flacco totally outplayed Kaep. I think the pocket passer will continue to be the better option for the next decade. The mobile QB has a shorter shelf life, and when defenses figure them out, they at the end of the day have to beat them with their heads and arms. The amount of great athletes in the last few drafts at the QB position is interesting, but from Newton to RG3 to Kaepernick, we may never see them win the big one while Flacco, Luck, and Brady continue to rack up the big wins in the post season Flame Away! Luck has yet to rack up a "big win in the post season". Anyway, Kaepernick hardly had a glove laid on him last night or this season. Same for Wilson. RG3 (and Vick) aren't built for the role they are playing. I wouldn't put them with Keap and Wilson at all. Brees and Rodgers are very mobile QBs. They won SBs. So did Steve Young. You're wrong on all counts.
idaholtby Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 How about Kellen Moore???? Could we trade for Detroits 3rd string QB? He is a pocket passer true and true. Very accurate with mid and deap throws. He has the highest winning percentage amongst all QBs across all divisions over the previous four years. The knocks against him is that he is only 6'(maybe) and that he is not known to scramble. He also is not known to have a strong arm, yet watching him over his four years in Boise, he is extremely accurate no matter where the ball is thrown(deep, mid,or screen). He is a mastermind of opposing defenses and is a son of a coach. His record is 50-3 through 4 years at BSU. Beat the Ducks twice. The biggest foe to his career has not been any BCS team, but rather the Nevada led Kapernick team. Even with these losses, Kellen was the best QB, the loss was due to a kicker. This kid is not huge or overly athelthetic, but is extremely intelligent. He knows the opposing defense better than their coordinator does. He is a winner, period. I would love to see him under center and learning as he goes than any other QB that B-Lo has had the past 15 plus years.
mrags Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Actually I was going to comment that the better defense won that game. Didnt have anything to do with QB. CK played well enough to win. The Ravens defense played a better game. Or should I say that Donte Whitner and the 49ers defense crumbled in the first half worse than any Super Bowl team since the 49ers blew out the Chargers. Defense wins championships.
CardinalScotts Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 without the blackout and the 49ers able to have time to gather themselves, the Ravens were going to put up a 40 burger on them
Malazan Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Flacco is actually pretty mobile. He moved around in the pocket and ran outside the pocket a number of times. Just because a guy doesn't run for gains like a running back, doesn't mean he isn't mobile.
Tcali Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 How about Kellen Moore???? Could we trade for Detroits 3rd string QB? He is a pocket passer true and true. Very accurate with mid and deap throws. He has the highest winning percentage amongst all QBs across all divisions over the previous four years. The knocks against him is that he is only 6'(maybe) and that he is not known to scramble. He also is not known to have a strong arm, yet watching him over his four years in Boise, he is extremely accurate no matter where the ball is thrown(deep, mid,or screen). He is a mastermind of opposing defenses and is a son of a coach. His record is 50-3 through 4 years at BSU. Beat the Ducks twice. The biggest foe to his career has not been any BCS team, but rather the Nevada led Kapernick team. Even with these losses, Kellen was the best QB, the loss was due to a kicker. This kid is not huge or overly athelthetic, but is extremely intelligent. He knows the opposing defense better than their coordinator does. He is a winner, period. I would love to see him under center and learning as he goes than any other QB that B-Lo has had the past 15 plus years. id have no prob taking a chance on kellen moore. he could win some big games w the right cast. smart,accurate.a proven winner. Flacco is actually pretty mobile. He moved around in the pocket and ran outside the pocket a number of times. Just because a guy doesn't run for gains like a running back, doesn't mean he isn't mobile. flacco does have surprisingly quick feet in the pocket and a good sense of the rush.
We Come In Peace Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 id have no prob taking a chance on kellen moore. he could win some big games w the right cast. smart,accurate.a proven winner. And the arm strength of a 12 year old girl. We already have one of those on the roster.
JPS Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Just a note worth discussing. We have been hearing since Vick, the game is changing mobile QB's are more versatile and is the movement in the NFL. I know Kaepernick is young, and he will/may have his time to win the big one, but the fact of the matter is that even back to Warren Moon we haven't seen the ultra mobile QB win the Super Bowl. We saw yesterday that a really immobile Flacco totally outplayed Kaep. I think the pocket passer will continue to be the better option for the next decade. The mobile QB has a shorter shelf life, and when defenses figure them out, they at the end of the day have to beat them with their heads and arms. The amount of great athletes in the last few drafts at the QB position is interesting, but from Newton to RG3 to Kaepernick, we may never see them win the big one while Flacco, Luck, and Brady continue to rack up the big wins in the post season Flame Away! A. Warren Moon was a statue B. Steve Young was pretty good...and mobile C. Elway was uber- mobile and a fantastic athlete. D. Rothlisberger moves around in the pocket better than most . E. Even the epitome of a statue, Joe Flacco, made the biggest throws of the playoffs after moving up in the pocket. I guess my point is: all great QBs know when it's time to stay and when it's time to go. Even the most statuesque pocket passers, the great ones that is, know how to slide to clean air. I think the new breed will be good at both. Newton, Luck, Wilson and Kaepernick can throw with the best of them and run when necessary.
Captain Hindsight Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 I think it has more to do with can you trust the guy to sit in the pocket and make plays with his arm. Some guys who run the read option can do it. Wilson and Kapernick for sure. They both have such live arms and are a huge threat to throw thats why they are successful. These guys will morph into more pure pocket passers as their careers move forward. Newton and RGIII, im not so sure
Tcali Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 And the arm strength of a 12 year old girl. We already have one of those on the roster. ..14 yr old girl--u may have a point... ever see one of unitas' throws??
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 And the SF coaches forced Colin K to try and be a pocket passer and they screwed their game up and lost. 4 straight plays. Too bad Colin did not defy them! Honestly if Colin would have went on to defy the coaches and he failed... I am sure Jim Harbaugh would have been cool with it! Remember Ditka-Harbaugh? I know he would have got in!
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