Stevie Johnson doesn't workout in the offseason

[stony]

No he wouldn't, not with Welker and the two tight ends there. He would have lesser numbers. Brandon Lloyd is a more accomplished and probably better reciever then Johnson is, his numbers weren't as big as Johnson's were in Buffalo.

 

Lloyd kinda sucks. One good year with Cutler I believe, nothing close to the consistency Stevie has been able to produce over the past three seasons. Not saying that Stevie would put up huge numbers in NE, but saying Lloyd is more accomplished is based off what?

[BuffBill]

Unfortunately there's no training program that could help Stevie corral more of Fitz's trademark wounded ducks. Now that would be a program worth buying into.

There is training that might help him catch the several passes a year that hit his hands and he drops either because he is expecting a hit, or just being Stevie Johnson. Most of the great receivers, Jerry Rice would spend hours in the off season with the throwing maching throwing hundreds of footballs a day at them. Playing basketball isn't going to help that at all.

[The Big Cat]

There is training that might help him catch the several passes a year that hit his hands and he drops either because he is expecting a hit, or just being Stevie Johnson. Most of the great receivers, Jerry Rice would spend hours in the off season with the throwing maching throwing hundreds of footballs a day at them. Playing basketball isn't going to help that at all.

 

There's probably also a training program out there that would allow him to out run defensive backs. Once. In his career.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Satisfied? What else should we draw from this? He unabashedly declared: I don't follow the team's conditioning schedule.There was no remorse. There was no "ah shucks." Yes, he eventually. arrived at the conclusion that he's ready to work. Why he gets a pass for this--as we approach his sixth season--I don't begin to understand.

 

Also, I'm not blaming Stevie for the Bills woes. That's just silly. But by his own admission, he didn't do everything he could do to make it better. And yes, there's a bit of inference here--based on the way he said it and his pattern of behavior to date--so please don't come back with "you don't know what he does and doesn't do." Stevie's own actions/words are a much better indication than what we as fans have never witnessed but hope to be the case behind the scenes.

I guess we just fundamentally disagree based on the fact that what I've witnessed is that Stevie is, in the games themselves, performing at a very high level. It'd be stupid to say I don't want to see more, but until he has a QB that is really elevating his play, I can't believe that his training methods are holding him back. He might say that, but Stevie has always been the kind of guy who is unfiltered and says what's on his mind even though it might get him in trouble. I don't think that's cause for celebration, but I do think we can avoid overreaction. In other situations, as with his teammates, being candid can actually be a pretty important thing. So if he is being himself, but being challenged by the team to improve himself, I say that's a better-case scenario than, say, that of a guy like Donte Whitner whose ratio of talk to results is pretty poor.

 

I don't love what he said but I don't see the personal results to prove that his training methods are keeping his numbers down, especially when the guy is constantly playing with injury.

 

There's probably also a training program out there that would allow him to out run defensive backs. Once. In his career.

You mean like when he regularly beats one of the best cover corners in the league?

[The Big Cat]

I guess we just fundamentally disagree based on the fact that what I've witnessed is that Stevie is, in the games themselves, performing at a very high level. It'd be stupid to say I don't want to see more, but until he has a QB that is really elevating his play, I can't believe that his training methods are holding him back. He might say that, but Stevie has always been the kind of guy who is unfiltered and says what's on his mind even though it might get him in trouble. I don't think that's cause for celebration, but I do think we can avoid overreaction. In other situations, as with his teammates, being candid can actually be a pretty important thing. So if he is being himself, but being challenged by the team to improve himself, I say that's a better-case scenario than, say, that of a guy like Donte Whitner whose ratio of talk to results is pretty poor.

 

I don't love what he said but I don't see the personal results to prove that his training methods are keeping his numbers down, especially when the guy is constantly playing with injury.

 

 

You mean like when he regularly beats one of the best cover corners in the league?

 

I was referring more to when he ALWAYS gets run down. He's not fast in the open field, period.

 

Also, I don't know how much more I can stress this: for me it's less of a "what if" scenario and more of a "you dumb ****, even if that's true (and it's despicable if it is) you don't !@#$ing say that on a nationally syndicated radio show. When are you going to learn to grow the !@#$ up?"

 

Look, Stevie has been saying for two or three years now that it's "up to him to be the leader" he wants to "be a leader." Well, in this instance, he failed lesson one.

 

Also, please keep in mind, that we have very very very limited access to these guys, so I don't think it's out of line to say that whatever behaviors we witness while the mics are rolling are probably magnified ten times behind the scenes.

 

The guy just needs to get over himself. He's good. But he's not that good.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I was referring more to when he ALWAYS gets run down. He's not fast in the open field, period.

 

Also, I don't know how much more I can stress this: for me it's less of a "what if" scenario and more of a "you dumb ****, even if that's true (and it's despicable if it is) you don't !@#$ing say that on a nationally syndicated radio show. When are you going to learn to grow the !@#$ up?"

 

Look, Stevie has been saying for two or three years now that it's "up to him to be the leader" he wants to "be a leader." Well, in this instance, he failed lesson one.

 

Also, please keep in mind, that we have very very very limited access to these guys, so I don't think it's out of line to say that whatever behaviors we witness while the mics are rolling are probably magnified ten times behind the scenes.

 

The guy just needs to get over himself. He's good. But he's not that good.

I guess I've just (sadly) accepted that these guys are self-centered half-grown men playing a kid's game for absurd money and I check my grown-up expectations at the door.

 

Realistically, you need other players - not coaches - to give you that kind of instruction. Brady does it sometimes quietly, sometimes vocally. I know Belicheck sets the tone but you don't see him chewing someone out on-field that often. His is a fairly quiet and boring rage that seems to always loom beneath.

 

People raged about the bickering Bills but I think there is far too much agreement on this team. I think if Eric Wood could stay healthy he could be a catalyst and a guy who challenges his teammates to man up, but thus far he hasn't been able to do so. Ditto Kyle Williams on the other side.

[The Big Cat]

I guess I've just (sadly) accepted that these guys are self-centered half-grown men playing a kid's game for absurd money and I check my grown-up expectations at the door.

 

Realistically, you need other players - not coaches - to give you that kind of instruction. Brady does it sometimes quietly, sometimes vocally. I know Belicheck sets the tone but you don't see him chewing someone out on-field that often. His is a fairly quiet and boring rage that seems to always loom beneath.

 

People raged about the bickering Bills but I think there is far too much agreement on this team. I think if Eric Wood could stay healthy he could be a catalyst and a guy who challenges his teammates to man up, but thus far he hasn't been able to do so. Ditto Kyle Williams on the other side.

 

Yeah, it's a difficult reality to stomach, particularly when the highly educated among us gladly collect our five-digit salaries and don't get to "play" our profession.

 

The race for the Bills locker room leader is definitely heating up. But at this point, Stevie's on the outside looking in.

 

And to your point about Bellicheat: I heard John Lynch tell a great story about his first day in the Patriots* film room: Hoodie was chewing out one of the players and Lynch smirked audibly, thinking Hoodie was just busting the guy's chops.

 

He said the room went completely silent and everyone turned, slowly, to look at him as if to say--bro, are you !@#$ing high? He said the verbal shalacking that ensued was unlike any he'd had since high school...

 

Now imagine Stevie played for Bellicheat and makes those comments...

 

I'm hoping Marrone does what the last three regimes have failed at doing: set a precedent for professionalism and commitment that's on par with teams like the Patriots*. Everyone hates them, players and fans alike, but it's no mystery why they're consistently vying for a championship. They operate at a level Stevie could never comprehend.

[RuntheDamnBall]

 

 

Yeah, it's a difficult reality to stomach, particularly when the highly educated among us gladly collect our five-digit salaries and don't get to "play" our profession.

 

The race for the Bills locker room leader is definitely heating up. But at this point, Stevie's on the outside looking in.

 

And to your point about Bellicheat: I heard John Lynch tell a great story about his first day in the Patriots* film room: Hoodie was chewing out one of the players and Lynch smirked audibly, thinking Hoodie was just busting the guy's chops.

 

He said the room went completely silent and everyone turned, slowly, to look at him as if to say--bro, are you !@#$ing high? He said the verbal shalacking that ensued was unlike any he'd had since high school...

 

Now imagine Stevie played for Bellicheat and makes those comments...

 

I'm hoping Marrone does what the last three regimes have failed at doing: set a precedent for professionalism and commitment that's on par with teams like the Patriots*. Everyone hates them, players and fans alike, but it's no mystery why they're consistently vying for a championship. They operate at a level Stevie could never comprehend.

There it is. There hasn't really been a "program" to get with. Here's hoping that changes.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Yeah, it's a difficult reality to stomach, particularly when the highly educated among us gladly collect our five-digit salaries and don't get to "play" our profession.

 

The race for the Bills locker room leader is definitely heating up. But at this point, Stevie's on the outside looking in.

 

And to your point about Bellicheat: I heard John Lynch tell a great story about his first day in the Patriots* film room: Hoodie was chewing out one of the players and Lynch smirked audibly, thinking Hoodie was just busting the guy's chops.

 

He said the room went completely silent and everyone turned, slowly, to look at him as if to say--bro, are you !@#$ing high? He said the verbal shalacking that ensued was unlike any he'd had since high school...

 

Now imagine Stevie played for Bellicheat and makes those comments...

 

I'm hoping Marrone does what the last three regimes have failed at doing: set a precedent for professionalism and commitment that's on par with teams like the Patriots*. Everyone hates them, players and fans alike, but it's no mystery why they're consistently vying for a championship. They operate at a level Stevie could never comprehend.

 

Good point.

 

My only real point here is that until I accomplish something on par with becoming a starter in the NFL (and in my opinion, a top 15 starter at his position) I won't call him dumb or lazy. Maybe Stevie wouldn't be able to comprehend the Patriots way, but I similarly can't comprehend the sacrifices and work that Stevie put in to even make an NFL roster.

[Wayne Cubed]

Yeah, it's a difficult reality to stomach, particularly when the highly educated among us gladly collect our five-digit salaries and don't get to "play" our profession.

 

The race for the Bills locker room leader is definitely heating up. But at this point, Stevie's on the outside looking in.

 

And to your point about Bellicheat: I heard John Lynch tell a great story about his first day in the Patriots* film room: Hoodie was chewing out one of the players and Lynch smirked audibly, thinking Hoodie was just busting the guy's chops.

 

He said the room went completely silent and everyone turned, slowly, to look at him as if to say--bro, are you !@#$ing high? He said the verbal shalacking that ensued was unlike any he'd had since high school...

 

Now imagine Stevie played for Bellicheat and makes those comments...

 

I'm hoping Marrone does what the last three regimes have failed at doing: set a precedent for professionalism and commitment that's on par with teams like the Patriots*. Everyone hates them, players and fans alike, but it's no mystery why they're consistently vying for a championship. They operate at a level Stevie could never comprehend.

 

Was that the film day they were watching other people's practices and signals?

[RuntheDamnBall]

Was that the film day they were watching other people's practices and signals?

Belicheck: "THIS IS IMPORTANT, PAY ATTENTION, NUMBSKULL."

[thebandit27]

There is training that might help him catch the several passes a year that hit his hands and he drops either because he is expecting a hit, or just being Stevie Johnson. Most of the great receivers, Jerry Rice would spend hours in the off season with the throwing maching throwing hundreds of footballs a day at them. Playing basketball isn't going to help that at all.

 

Just make sure that Jimmy Graham sees this too, since he had almost twice as many drops as Stevie last year (in fewer games mind you). Might as well throw in Calvin Johnson and Victor Cruz as well, since they both dropped almost 50% more passes than Stevie.

 

Or you can face the reality that he doesn't drop nearly the number of passes you claim he does.

 

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

[The Big Cat]

There it is. There hasn't really been a "program" to get with. Here's hoping that changes.

 

Yeah, and though I was irked with Stevie, I kept thinking: what the !@#$ organization even allows this to happen?

 

Good point.

 

My only real point here is that until I accomplish something on par with becoming a starter in the NFL (and in my opinion, a top 15 starter at his position) I won't call him dumb or lazy. Maybe Stevie wouldn't be able to comprehend the Patriots way, but I similarly can't comprehend the sacrifices and work that Stevie put in to even make an NFL roster.

 

Ha, well, if we were to leave it at that, then we'd have no place to criticize any player for anything ever! Are you saying Fitz is accurate because he can throw better than you!?

[WinBeforeYouLeave]

A gym in town is owned by a guy that was the strenth and conditioning coach for a 2 NFL teams. With a quick glance he can estimate how much mass you can carry relative to your joints and what not, and how much -and little- you should work to hit those targets. Pretty basic stuff, I know. I hear it every day, more is not better, most guys are doing way too much to recover fully, and many can't maintain mass if they're in the gym too much.

 

The trainers that work for the Bills are pretty sharp, even if they're the worst in the league. Stevie is not Aaron Maybin, undersized and desperately needing strength, upper body mass might just slow Stevie down and additional lower body strength may lead to more pulls and strains.

 

Plus he's a free spirit that will say anything when he's on a roll. He likes being provocative.

[Beerball]

Well, personally I think your making many assumptive leaps to arrive at your conclusion.

And as far as I go, i'm not busting on the guy ( ) for not training. I don't profess to know what he does or doesn't do. I'm busting on the guy for what he so flippantly, proudly declared: I take that booklet and put in the drawer. I haven't worked out since before my rookie season.

 

It's an insanely immature thing to SAY, true or not. It's unprofessional, it's selfish and it's unfair to the people within the organization who DO bust their ass. Great, he spends three or four seconds thirty or forty times a game "getting open." He doesn't get a free pass for that when coaches put in 60 hours and others are training their asses off.

Ya know, this thread reminds me of one I started about Drew Bledsoe many years ago. I linked an article that talked about how happy Bledsoe was in Montana. He had no plans to work out etc. etc. etc.

 

I was skewered, ripped up one side and down the other. How dare I wonder whether Bledsoe (and his teammates) might benefit from off season work?

 

In hindsight (sorry Captain) I wonder how many people were satisfied with Bledsoe's overall performance in Buffalo. I wonder how his cavalier attitude affected his teammates? I wonder what he could have been if he had passion for the game?

 

Now, our current topic...you always prefer that your best players are your hardest workers (think A Peterson). They set the tone for the rest of the team. How can the #3 receiver not work his butt off if the #1 is? Johnson's comment (whether serious or playful) does nothing good for this organization. We want players who want to win. We need to establish leaders on this team. From this point forward let's hope that Johnson becomes the type of leader this team is sorely lacking.

[Mango]

I dont beleive a word youre saying becuase if you are who you say you are, youd have something to say about rest and recuperation.

 

people hide behind this for some reason. you will not find an elite and sophisticated training program that advocates a 9 month recuperation program....anywhere. offseason is where you make strides, then you have 4 months to fine tune and maintain. take your few weeks off to rest, then get back on it. no strength and conditioning coach in the world would advocate that duration of rest as effective.

 

Elite Athletes at the international level take just a few weeks off to recover and decompress before gearing up for the next world cup circuit and world championships. I understand the bumps and bruises that go along with the NFL, and there is a necessity for a bit more rest due to injury, but as soon as capable these guys (and the good ones are) should be running, putting their bodies together, working on flexibility. most athletes who are chronically injured are generally not very well put together and conditioned.

[Chef Jim]

Some people are gym rats 24/7. Some use the offseason for rest. Some do a little of both.

 

None of the ways in which an athlete approaches "the offseason" means they arent "giving 100%."

 

Johnson is a pro and whatever way he takes care of himself works. End of story. Different "thing" but Stevie Van Zandt doesnt LOOK at a guitar between Springsteen tours. Quick...burn your copies of The Sopranos!

 

But whats the problem here? He said hes going to start an off season program becuase he wants to do even better than he has been. That even though hes been good doing whats hes doing, he thinks hee can do better and is going to take steps to make that happen.

 

Thats a problem?

 

A musician that doesn't pick up their instrument between performances and an athlete that doesn't work out in the offseason is not a professional in my book. Dumbasses.

[Mango]

I can tell you that's unequivocally false. As a guy who played a DI sport, who's married to a woman who played a DI sport, who now works with professional athletes in that sport, I can tell you from first-hand experience: trainers know what they're talking about. They're constantly evolving to the latest techniques and theories, and they design their systems to maximize the body's potential for a specific sport. NFL teams wouldn't hire a training staff that's part of bygone culture. That makes no sense, whatsoever.

 

Concurred. as a former member of the US National team, it seems as though people ignore the posts like this and just keep restating...REST IS BEST. which is true to a certain extent. These sports with high volumes of training, can get a bit overboard. Football has never and will never be considered a high volume training sport. These guys need to rest to recover from their injuries, but the work involved in training for football does not necessitate long durations of rest. also working out doesn't necessarily mean lifting which a lot of people seem to think on this boars.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

 

Ha, well, if we were to leave it at that, then we'd have no place to criticize any player for anything ever! Are you saying Fitz is accurate because he can throw better than you!?

 

I'm actually weirdly accurate. Haven't been beaten in darts!

 

Anyway, I think we all have to admit there's a certain inherent absurdity to a field where we rake the best through the mud and save scant praise for the BEST of the best.

 

For the sake of argument, let's say that Fitz is the 25th best quarterback in the NFL. Think of all the guys in this country who picked up a football imagining themselves as a professional. There must be a million of them. But we spend so much time criticizing the guys who actually achieved that dream. I know I'm a participant in that criticism, but it just boggles the mind.

[The Big Cat]

I'm actually weirdly accurate. Haven't been beaten in darts!

 

Anyway, I think we all have to admit there's a certain inherent absurdity to a field where we rake the best through the mud and save scant praise for the BEST of the best.

 

For the sake of argument, let's say that Fitz is the 25th best quarterback in the NFL. Think of all the guys in this country who picked up a football imagining themselves as a professional. There must be a million of them. But we spend so much time criticizing the guys who actually achieved that dream. I know I'm a participant in that criticism, but it just boggles the mind.

 

Anyone with Any TBD'er with half a brain has experienced the this existential dilema!

 

It's part of the reason I want to blow my brains out for the weeks leading to the draft when all I read are INTERNET POSTS from non-football professionals chirping on and on about "fluid hips," "situational awareness" "quickness off the ball" "fat to muscle ratio" it is truly absurd.

Edited February 7, 2013 by taC giB ehT