Kelly the Dog Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Flutie fumbled at the 9 yard line in the Miami playoff game and it was 3rd down. I think it was first down, but the Bills had no time outs left. Flutie was very good that game. Moulds killed us with the early fumble that should have been a TD, and Andre killed us with a late fumble. Flutie was up and down but he made play after play after play. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/1998/playoffs/news/1999/01/02/miami_buffalo/ Not to mention Andre getting an unsportsmanlike penalty on the Dolphins 1 yard line with less than 2 minutes to go.
Gordio Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Well said. IMO, Flutie was the epitome of a “me first” athlete. No doubt now that he was a better QB than RJ but his playing time and personal success were more important than team success. Many of the vets on that team realized that and it ultimately divided the locker room. He could have still competed hard but also helped RJ out along the way because it would have been the best thing for the team but he didn’t. Who knows, maybe RJ would have progressed into the QB we all hoped he would be with a little more tutelage from the veteran QB early on since most of his issues appeared to be mental. Flutie was just not a team guy and had no interest in helping RJ out because starting was more important to him. Say what you want about Alex Smith but Harbaugh has stated that Alex has helped Kap out anyway that he could despite the hard feelings over losing the starting job. Flutie is one of if not the best QB to ever play in the CFL yet he played for 3 teams in 8 years. Why is that? Can you imagine Joe Montana or Peyton Manning changing teams in the prime of their careers after setting passing records and/or winning championships? I can’t. It would be like the Packers letting Aaron Rodgers go. Flutie has done a lot for Autism, no one can deny that. We all know that to be true because he made sure the cameras were always following him on those visits to hospitals, etc. Just my opinion but if a lot of people know of your charitable deeds and especially if it’s being covered on the news week after week, you’re probably not doing it for the noblest reasons. Lastly, the thing I hate most about Doug Flutie is that he made me root for Rob Johnson. I wouldn't put too much stock in what the vets thought at the time especially Thomas/Reed/Smith. These guys were just about shot & they were on their way out & they knew. It is funny, Flutie was always labelled a me first guy but on that team the ultimate malcontent imo was Reed. Remember he shot his mouth off a few days before the titans game saying how miserable this year has been for him & that the coaches don't want to give him the ball? Great timing on that Reed. Noone says anything about that though. Also, wasn't the first two teams he changed was due to the organizations having financial problems? I thought I read something like that before. I am no CFL expert so if anybody has different information, please correct me. Edited January 31, 2013 by Gordio
mattsox Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I wonder what would have happened if he hadn't been on our team and Flutie was allowed to start. Like!!
extrahammer Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I think it was first down, but the Bills had no time outs left. Flutie was very good that game. Moulds killed us with the early fumble that should have been a TD, and Andre killed us with a late fumble. Flutie was up and down but he made play after play after play. http://sportsillustr.../miami_buffalo/ Not to mention Andre getting an unsportsmanlike penalty on the Dolphins 1 yard line with less than 2 minutes to go. Ah. So close...
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I think it was first down, but the Bills had no time outs left. Flutie was very good that game. Moulds killed us with the early fumble that should have been a TD, and Andre killed us with a late fumble. Flutie was up and down but he made play after play after play. http://sportsillustr.../miami_buffalo/ Not to mention Andre getting an unsportsmanlike penalty on the Dolphins 1 yard line with less than 2 minutes to go. Exactly.
Fan in San Diego Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 My buddy saw him walking across the street in solana beach and yell his name, and he froze PTSD
SouthernMan Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Flutie was the ultimate competitor, made the most of his ability, and made those around him better. If he'd been 6-3 and 225 lbs., he'd be in the hall of fame. Was he a prick? Probably. But everyone loves a winner. Johnson on the other hand appeared lackadaisical, and was not a natural thick body, so he was prone to injury. The one thing everyone in this thread is missing is that a large part of Johnson's downfall is that he had the same timing issue that plagued both Bledsoe and Losman. Good quarterbacks have that sixth sense to know when defenders are converging on them. Johnson, Bledsoe, and Losman all had tunnel vision, focusing on their receiver and reads and didn't have that mental clock and sense to know when to dump the ball. This led to 3rd and long, 3 and out, and uneccesary sacks that often took them from field goal range, forcing them into a punting situation. That would drive me nuts! Johnson is the perfect example of a "combine player" Had plenty of the physical tools and atheletism that are measured at the Indy combine, but the things that are integral to being an NFL QB that can't be measured, such as heart, timing, and durability, he was sorely lacking. IMO - he had that same dull blade personality that seems to have such great appeal to Ralph Wilson, who made the call to start Johnson in the Titans game. it's the same less than exciting personality that has characterized the last 4 or 5 head coaches. For all the debate on this board and by so many fans who are divided over Flutie and Johnson, I'd love to get the opinions of guys like Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman, Tasker, to name a few, and know who their choice would have been. Edited January 31, 2013 by SouthernMan
Doc Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 The defense was great in those days. But the O-line was weak and masked by Flutie's scrambling, and in the Titans playoff game, it was decimated. Again RJ left the field with the lead, only to have the ST's blow the game. But I also don't pin the loss to the Dols in the playoffs the year earlier on Flutie, and that should have been a home game, if not for the "just give it to 'em game" against the Pats earlier in the year. As for Flutie's stellar record with the Bills, all you need to do is look at his record when he went to the Chargers. He was 7-14. Obviously the team around him/a QB makes a difference. And after 2000, there was little talent left on the team thanks to Butler's cap mismanagement.
dogman Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I so wanted Johnson to succeede because he had a much bigger upside than Flutie. Yet, a different offense, a different coordinator almost every year contributed to it not working. Unlike most QBs Flutie free-lanced a lot, so the type of offense he ran didn't matter much. So in the chaos that was the Bills' offense at that time Johnson just never could make it work. Although he left the field in Tennesse ahead-after an awesome drive to put them ahead. The Flutie fable worked in Buffalo because we so love the underdog.
Buftex Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) The two games he "won" for the Bucs: 12-9 with neither team scoring an offensive TD, and 15-0 in a meaningless final game of the season in which neither team scored an offensive TD. Okay, I get it Dave...but should we go through and look at Fluties stats, team records, etc before crediting him with 24 wins (or whatever it was)? The argument works both ways. I recall Flutie having some pretty miserable games amongst those wins. Edited January 31, 2013 by Buftex
NorWideRight Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Sign him and bring him back. Rob Johnson has to be better than Fitztrajic.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Had plenty of the physical tools and atheletism that are measured at the Indy combine, but the things that are integral to being an NFL QB that can't be measured, such as heart, timing, and durability, he was sorely lacking. IMO - he had that same dull blade personality that seems to have such great appeal to Ralph Wilson, who made the call to start Johnson in the Titans game. it's the same less than exciting personality that has characterized the last 4 or 5 head coaches. Is Joe Flacco the most interesting man in the world? How about Aaron Rodgers? I don't care how much of a rah ran guy the player is. If he can play his teammates will believe in him. If he can't, they won't. A "lackadaisical" player who can play is better than a guy who is über competitive and refuses to ever accept the blame when he has failed.
SouthernMan Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Is Joe Flacco the most interesting man in the world? How about Aaron Rodgers? I don't care how much of a rah ran guy the player is. If he can play his teammates will believe in him. If he can't, they won't. A "lackadaisical" player who can play is better than a guy who is über competitive and refuses to ever accept the blame when he has failed. Never said anything about being a rah-rah, but I think a team often reflects the leaders - i.e. 0 the head coach and QB. I don't know any of those QBs personally, but my impression of Rogers is he has some degree of charisma and leadership that teammates can believe in. My impression of Johnson is he was guy always showing up uninvited and that you were trying to ditch in high school. Johnson maybe had enough charisma to do commercials for No-Doze. He seems like a real swell guy. Surf's up.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I think it was first down, but the Bills had no time outs left. Flutie was very good that game. Moulds killed us with the early fumble that should have been a TD, and Andre killed us with a late fumble. Flutie was up and down but he made play after play after play. http://sportsillustr.../miami_buffalo/ Not to mention Andre getting an unsportsmanlike penalty on the Dolphins 1 yard line with less than 2 minutes to go. Still no mention of the INT in the end zone at the end of the first half. Flutie clearly was magical; he has the power to cloud men's minds.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Still no mention of the INT in the end zone at the end of the first half. Flutie clearly was magical; he has the power to cloud men's minds. That is what I meant by "up and down", Flutie was very accurate in that game, he scrambled wild, he brought the team back twice, he made ridiculous plays, he should have had about an 80 yard TD on the first play, he threw for 360 yards, the Bills had about 100 yards in penalties that took away a few good plays as well, we very likely would have won the game if Andre didn't totally screw up with 1:47 to go just because he was pissed off. I remember that game very well. I think Flutie fumbled twice, not just once, and he threw that INT. But he was amazing that game despite the three bad plays, he made 12-15 good ones, and he played a lot more good than bad. Except for Moulds, he was probably the best player on the field that game (and Moulds fumbled away a sure TD, getting caught from behind and fumbling it away).
PromoTheRobot Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 So why did Flutie get benched in 2000? Maybe it was the 4 straight losses at the end of the season? And speaking of ugly Flutie wins. 10/31/99 vs BAL 18 of 40, 3 INTs 32.8 QR PTR
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 The logic: people assume we would have win the Titans game if Flutie started but ignore that Flutie cost us a playoff win one year earlier by fumbling the ball on the Dolphins one yard line. It just goes to show you how strong the cult of Flutie is here. Considering how much we replay bitter loses from our history that game is all but forgotten. Why is that? PTR Cost us the game? He was the reason we were in that game. Or Flutie would have fumbled away a win like he did in his only playoff start our defense had nothing to do with those wins? Flutie was effective for about half a season, until the NFL stopped buying his little "pixie hop" move when throwing. Then he became Tim Tebow...big rep, little talent. PTR Again, Flutie was 21-9 with the same team that Rob Johnson went 8-10 with. And in Flutie's final season with the Bills (2000) he went 4-1. I think it was first down, but the Bills had no time outs left. Flutie was very good that game. Moulds killed us with the early fumble that should have been a TD, and Andre killed us with a late fumble. Flutie was up and down but he made play after play after play. http://sportsillustr.../miami_buffalo/ Not to mention Andre getting an unsportsmanlike penalty on the Dolphins 1 yard line with less than 2 minutes to go. Flutie was the Bills best player in that game but some here would rather blame him for the loss. So why did Flutie get benched in 2000? Maybe it was the 4 straight losses at the end of the season? And speaking of ugly Flutie wins. 10/31/99 vs BAL 18 of 40, 3 INTs 32.8 QR PTR Again your hatred for Flutie has caused you to warp fact. In 2000, Rob Johnson started 3 consecutive late season losses (Tampa Bay, Miami, and Indy). Flutie started the second to last game, an OT loss to New England in which he played well, and the season ending victory against Seattle where he also played well. I don't mind you hating Flutie but please stop with all the fiction. Your not hurting Flutie's reputation, you're hurting your own.
Bill from NYC Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) Cost us the game? He was the reason we were in that game. Again, Flutie was 21-9 with the same team that Rob Johnson went 8-10 with. And in Flutie's final season with the Bills (2000) he went 4-1. Flutie was the Bills best player in that game but some here would rather blame him for the loss. Again your hatred for Flutie has caused you to warp fact. In 2000, Rob Johnson started 3 consecutive late season losses (Tampa Bay, Miami, and Indy). Flutie started the second to last game, an OT loss to New England in which he played well, and the season ending victory against Seattle where he also played well. I don't mind you hating Flutie but please stop with all the fiction. Your not hurting Flutie's reputation, you're hurting your own. Promo doesn't hate Flutie. He will simply defend every single stupid move ever made by the Bills, no matter how much we lose. I admire his loyalty, and this stops me from confronting him with facts as much as I am tempted to at times. A part of me wishes that I could think like him. Edited February 1, 2013 by Bill from NYC
CSBill Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 Doug Flutie sucked. He was the locker room cancer poster boy. He divided the team for personal gain and he sucked on the field. I wish he was never on the Bills. Hell, I wish he was never in the NFL. Rob Johnson tried hard to win. Doug Flutie tried hard to be a starter. Big difference. Good riddance to rotten, filthy rubbish the day that jerk left Orchard Park. And I don't want to hear about all the stuff he does for autism research, either. If his son wasn't autistic, he wouldn't even know how to spell it. And Flutie won and Johnson didn't
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