Hsp08 Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Great, we Bills fans must be bored. The Johnson and Flutie debate is revived! You Flutopians still kill me...after all these years.... oh ya, and Rob Johnson was taking us to the promised land. Right.
Gugny Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Doug Flutie sucked. He was the locker room cancer poster boy. He divided the team for personal gain and he sucked on the field. I wish he was never on the Bills. Hell, I wish he was never in the NFL. Rob Johnson tried hard to win. Doug Flutie tried hard to be a starter. Big difference. Good riddance to rotten, filthy rubbish the day that jerk left Orchard Park. And I don't want to hear about all the stuff he does for autism research, either. If his son wasn't autistic, he wouldn't even know how to spell it.
transient Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Yes, there is that, and the growing phenomenon amongst Bills fans to declare draft picks as busts...everyone wants to be the first one to claim it. You mean like the bust that the Bills drafted #8 overall in April 2013, what a POS he'll turn out to be.
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I dunno...I believe he was 2-0 as a starter for the Bucs. He played more the role of "game manager", but they did win. Undoubtedly, the Bills experienced more success those years with Flutie starting, but I think the Bills gave up on Flutie at the right time... he really wasn't very good most of his final season in Buffalo. "Choosing" RJ over Flutie was really a financial decision as much as one based on talent. If they had kept Flutie, I seriously doubt things would be much different than they are now. They realized Flutie wasn't taking them any further, and gambled that Johnson, as the undisputed starter, might be able to elevate his game...he did show flashes...the Bills would have taken a big cap hit cutting RJ that year...not so much in the final year of his deal. The two games he "won" for the Bucs: 12-9 with neither team scoring an offensive TD, and 15-0 in a meaningless final game of the season in which neither team scored an offensive TD.
Wayne Fontes Posted January 31, 2013 Author Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) I'll try hard to over look the insult to cancer victims and little people . . . but you really showed your IQ deficiency when you some how came to the convoluted logic to think that Rob Johnson was a better QB for the Buffalo Bills than Doug Flutie . . . further evidence that there should be a driving text for posting on TBD Locker room cancer is a common term for a divisive player. Fluite was that by all accounts. I don't believe that I stated that Rob was better than Doug - Frankly, I was never interested in the debate. I was more interested in the player best equipped to get the team a ring. Ultimately, neither were. Doug provided a spark and was a gamer for sure, but hit his redline soon after becoming the starter, By late 1998, you knew what you were getting. The Bills strong defense covered up for his shortcomings. Johnson never developed, but I was enamored with his potential since he had the arm and the athleticism, and back then, more upside than Flutie. As was stated previously, he showed flashes, and I for one kept hoping he would turn the corner into an effective starter. Edited January 31, 2013 by Wayne Fontes
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) You're kidding me. Flutie v. the Dolphins: 90.05 rating against a defense that was 6th in passing defense, 3rd in overall D, and first overall in points allowed. Johnson v. the Titans: 64.8 rating against a defense that was 25th overall in passing defense, 17th overall in D, and 15th overall in points. Seriously -- come on. Threw an INT in the end zone at the end of the first half, held the ball too long for a sack/fumble at the Dolphins 5 to end the game. Seriously yerself. Edited January 31, 2013 by RJ (not THAT RJ)
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Locker room cancer is a common term for a divisive player. Fluite was that by all accounts. I don't believe that I stated that Rob was better than Doug - Frankly, I was never interested in the debate. I was more interested in winning football Doug provided a spark and was a gamer for sure, but hit his redline soon after becoming the starter, By late 1998, you knew what you were getting. The Bills strong defense covered up for his shortcomings. Johnson never developed, but I was enamored with his potential since he had the arm and the athleticism, and back then, more upside than Flutie. As was stated previously, he showed flashes, and I for one kept hoping he would turn the corner into an effective starter. Anyone who followed johnson's college career wouldn't have expected him to excel. Blessed with Tony boselli as his LT and - in sequence over 3 years - curtis Conway, Johnny Morton, and Keyshawn Johnson as his #1 receivers, he never beat either Notre Dame or UCLA in 6 tries. In fact, in the final two UCLA losses, he was the reason, throwing terrible game ending INTs despite the fact that USC was stacked with talent (ie, Willie McGinest). I was at UCLA at the time and have fond memories of his chokes. There is a reason he was drafted in the 4th round despite having top of first round physical talent. Fwiw, his brother Bret Johnson was the #1 recruit in the nation (qb) and bailed on ucla after one unhappy and pouty season. He transferred to michigan state and flamed out.
Hsp08 Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Rob Johnson and JP Losman are just not intelligent. It takes brains to play QB. Maybe there is a football IQ. These guys didn't have that either. There is a reason they got sacked so much. They could not read defenses. It is the same reason Vick and other mobile QB's get sacked. They can't read defenses quickly and move from read to read to read... Absolutely agree. Good QBs throw to a spot where the receiver should end up to make the catch, where as these two threw to the spot after the receiver already got there. They tried to stuff it in there with their strong throws.
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Threw an INT in the end zone at the end of the first half, held the ball too long for a sack/fumble at the Dolphins 5 to end the game. Seriously yerself. Held the ball for too long? Lord people have short memories. Armstrong blew by whatever stiff was playing RT and sacked him within a couple of seconds. He didn't even scramble. Recall that the Bills lost 4 fumbles in that game (again, against a superior D). Flutie lost one, but not the other 3. He averaged 10 yards per attempt in that game. Edited January 31, 2013 by dave mcbride
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Held the ball for too long? Lord people have short memories. Armstrong blew by whatever stiff was playing RT and sacked him within a couple of seconds. He didn't even scramble. Recall that the Bills lost 4 fumbles in that game (again, against a superior D). Flutie lost one, but not the other 3. He averaged 10 yards per attempt in that game. Yep. Thurman whiffed on the block on Armstrong. That was one of the great quarterback performances in Bills history. Flutie led them back at least twice in that game. For the record (yet again): Flutie's record for the Bills from 1998 to 2000: 21-9 Johnson's record for the Bills from 1998 to 2000: 8-10 Gimme the "locker room cancer" every time.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Held the ball for too long? Lord people have short memories. Armstrong blew by whatever stiff was playing RT and sacked him within a couple of seconds. He didn't even scramble. Recall that the Bills lost 4 fumbles in that game (again, against a superior D). Flutie lost one, but not the other 3. He averaged 10 yards per attempt in that game. I was a Flutie Fan... but his INT in the end zone (which I remember even if you don't) when the Bills were inside the ten was symptomatic of his biggest problem... small and crowded field was his downfall, as were disciplined defenses. The Bills did not lose that game just because of Flutie, but it is bad history to assume that he had nothing to do with it, just as it is bad history to ignore how his productivity declined as defenses caught up with him.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I was a Flutie Fan... but his INT in the end zone (which I remember even if you don't) when the Bills were inside the ten was symptomatic of his biggest problem... small and crowded field was his downfall, as were disciplined defenses. The Bills did not lose that game just because of Flutie, but it is bad history to assume that he had nothing to do with it, just as it is bad history to ignore how his productivity declined as defenses caught up with him. Well RJ, when Flutie was being phased out in 2000, his productivity was still 4-0 while Johnson's was 4-7.
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I was a Flutie Fan... but his INT in the end zone (which I remember even if you don't) when the Bills were inside the ten was symptomatic of his biggest problem... small and crowded field was his downfall, as were disciplined defenses. The Bills did not lose that game just because of Flutie, but it is bad history to assume that he had nothing to do with it, just as it is bad history to ignore how his productivity declined as defenses caught up with him. I agree that he had limitations. No doubt about that. But he was most definitely a 10-6 qb - a guy who could pull out a close one more often than not. The bills haven't had that since, well, him. In fact my favorite flutie performance was that game against the ravens in 1999. No one really knew just how good that ravens d was at the time, but regardless, flutie was terrible for most of the game. Bt then he really did pull out a miracle finish, pulling out play afte play on the bills final possession.
Big Turk Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I think RJ was a better athlete than Trent Edwards...definitely had a much better arm. In the interview, interesting, they are talking about the "scrambling QB's of today", and RJ implies, sort of, that he came up as a drop-back QB, but when he got to the NFL, playing with Brunell and Flutie, who were both runners, he had to add that to his game...and, as he says, he took a lot of hits he shouldn't have taken, and just couldn't stay healthy. "I just wasn't built for that". Funny, I remember him being a pretty decent scrambler. Maybe he should have scrambled more. He is the all time NFL career leader in sack percentage and its not even close for second place...dude got sacked more often than any QB in NFL history...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Well RJ, when Flutie was being phased out in 2000, his productivity was still 4-0 while Johnson's was 4-7. I know. Johnson totally made a mistake when he gave up those special teams TDs, and when he blew out Sam Cowart's knee. RJ, despite being tastefully named, was not the answer either. I'm not saying he was.
billsfans126 Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 What did rob Johnson do? Really ? Flute went 10-5 and Johnson started week 17 against a bad colts team. Flute went 10-5 not Johnson. My best memory of rob Johnson was a bunch of fans running to get his autograph in the parking lot after the game and Johnson tried to run to his vehicle and slipped on ice and fell right on his as* lol Flutie* lol iPhone
Wayne Fontes Posted January 31, 2013 Author Posted January 31, 2013 Anyone who followed johnson's college career wouldn't have expected him to excel. Blessed with Tony boselli as his LT and - in sequence over 3 years - curtis Conway, Johnny Morton, and Keyshawn Johnson as his #1 receivers, he never beat either Notre Dame or UCLA in 6 tries. In fact, in the final two UCLA losses, he was the reason, throwing terrible game ending INTs despite the fact that USC was stacked with talent (ie, Willie McGinest). I was at UCLA at the time and have fond memories of his chokes. There is a reason he was drafted in the 4th round despite having top of first round physical talent. Fwiw, his brother Bret Johnson was the #1 recruit in the nation (qb) and bailed on ucla after one unhappy and pouty season. He transferred to michigan state and flamed out. I've never followed the college game. All I know about USC is that a friend who taught there was required by adminstration to give Keyshawn a passing grade for a course he never attended. Johnson had a handful of pro games that were promising and a few that showed he was willing to grit it out (KC, TB). Though I had doubts, I also thought it may be possible that with time and experience he would overcome some of his obvious lapses.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Threw an INT in the end zone at the end of the first half, held the ball too long for a sack/fumble at the Dolphins 5 to end the game. Seriously yerself. You are my hero.
Nitro Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Johnson, FLutie, Losman, Edwards each had strengths. Their weaknesses ensured that they would not be a starting QB, long term, in the NFL. The Bills got suckered in on flashes of good play and bought into each being a starter. This a common problem in the NFL.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 What did rob Johnson do? Really ? Flute went 10-5 and Johnson started week 17 against a bad colts team. Flute went 10-5 not Johnson. My best memory of rob Johnson was a bunch of fans running to get his autograph in the parking lot after the game and Johnson tried to run to his vehicle and slipped on ice and fell right on his as* lol Flutie* lol iPhone OBVIOUSLY Flutie went 10-5 all by himself and Johnson lost the Music City Miracle all by himself. I also love how it was the team holding Flutie back but it was Johnson's loss when he lost. GET OVER IT. NEITHER OF THESE GUYS WERE GOOD ENOUGH. IT THEY WERE, THAT DEFENSE WOULD HAVE TAKEN THE BILLS TO THE SUPER BOWL.
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