New gun control thread!

[DC Tom]

why confound the discussion with another subject we fully disagree on: handguns. and how did we get from semi automatic shotguns to double action revolvers. oh....cuz that's where you want to go to serve your argument even if it's totally divorced from the ongoing discussion.

 

The question is "how did we get from semi-automatic weapons to double-action revolvers."

 

The answer is: because I took in that direction, to see what you thought. And I was never talking about shotguns - you were having that conversation with someone else. Keep your conversations straight, moron.

[/dev/null]

I didn't think he's completely lose his mind after "double," though.

 

It's like talking to an autistic mute.

 

I beg to differ.

 

Autistic people can be quite mechanically adept but don't often speak

 

Birdog doesn't seem to comprehend the mechanics of semi-auto weapons or double action pistols and is really quite vocal about his lack of understanding

[birdog1960]

I beg to differ.

 

Autistic people can be quite mechanically adept but don't often speak

 

Birdog doesn't seem to comprehend the mechanics of semi-auto weapons or double action pistols and is really quite vocal about his lack of understanding

so where am i i mistaken? http://science.howst...om/shotgun6.htm Edited May 3, 2013 by birdog1960

[DC Tom]

so where am i i mistaken? http://science.howst...om/shotgun6.htm

 

In any discussion, people tend to fall in to one of three groups: there's those that are right, those that are wrong, and those that lack any sort of meaningful context in which to participate in the discussion. By way of example - which I'll dumb down to a Sesame Street level, in hopes you'll understand - one person might say "'A' is the first letter of the alphabet." Another might say "'A' is not the first letter of the alphabet." And a third might say "'A' is my favorite vegetable." One person is right, one person is wrong, and one person is so bloody ignorant that they can't even be considered "mistaken," as they make no goddamn sense.

 

Now in terms of this conversation, take one great big flying leap of a !@#$ing guess which group you're in...

[birdog1960]

http://www.budsgunsh..._id/41868 agun manufactured for buyers to imagine a use. HD and SHTF in the gun culture vernacular: "home defense and "when the shite hits the fan". hmmm. i'm wondering if there are varying definitions of both of those situations. and of the ability of the buyer to decide.

 

http://www.gandermou...0&merchID=4005: a gun with many well defined practical uses and damn good at them. which one is more valuable? which one is more in demand? the answers are vey likely different...

Edited May 3, 2013 by birdog1960

[TakeYouToTasker]

But... For what purpose would law enforcement possibly need such heavy fire power? I don't understand.

[Joe Miner]

http://www.budsgunsh..._id/41868 agun manufactured for buyers to imagine a use. HD and SHTF in the gun culture vernacular: "home defense and "when the shite hits the fan". hmmm. i'm wondering if there are varying definitions of both of those situations. and of the ability of the buyer to decide.

 

http://www.gandermou...0&merchID=4005: a gun with many well defined practical uses and damn good at them. which one is more valuable? which one is more in demand? the answers are vey likely different...

 

What the hell are you talking about?

[/dev/null]

so where am i i mistaken? http://science.howst...om/shotgun6.htm

 

We were discussing semi-auto weapons and you brought up double barrel shotguns

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

I'm not sure even he knows anymore

[birdog1960]

We were discussing semi-auto weapons and you brought up double barrel shotguns

 

and i was pointing out an intermediate gun that could be reasonably used to fire 2 shots quickly to pull off a double while still being practical for hunting and home defense and without having to go to the extremes of semi automatics.

 

i know some of you aren';t the sharpest tools in the shed but you're not actually this opaque? are you?

[Nanker]

Why knock semi-auto shotguns and not pump action shotguns? You think the minor inconvenience of pumping the forestock is that significant? Why not crusade against all cartridge guns and force people to go back to black powder muzzle loaders? After all, that's what they had when they wrote the god damned Constitution you loathe so.

[birdog1960]

i'm also pointing out that very little of this debate and vitriol has anything to do with the sporting life and sporting heritage.

[B-Man]

i'm also pointing out that very little of this debate and vitriol has anything to do with the sporting life and sporting heritage.

 

Thats because the Second Ammendment isn't about "the sporting life"

 

but you knew that.

 

 

 

 

.

[TakeYouToTasker]

and i was pointing out an intermediate gun that could be reasonably used to fire 2 shots quickly to pull off a double while still being practical for hunting and home defense and without having to go to the extremes of semi automatics.

What happens if you miss? Do you deserve to be executed by a criminal?

 

How about women, who may find a double barrel shoutgun unwieldly? I assume you believe they should accept their fate?

 

Also, for what reason do law enforcment need semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity magazines? You still haven't clarified this.

[birdog1960]

Thats because the Second Ammendment isn't about "the sporting life"

 

but you knew that.

 

 

 

 

.

then why not drop the pretense? just one example: http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2013/2/wisconsin-governor-announces-2013-policy-initiatives-for-wisconsin-hunters-and-sportsmen.aspx. almost every pro gun publicity piece alludes to hunters. this isn't about them (us) at all.

 

What happens if you miss? Do you deserve to be executed by a criminal?

 

How about women, who may find a double barrel shoutgun unwieldly? I assume you believe they should accept their fate?

 

Also, for what reason do law enforcment need semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity magazines? You still haven't clarified this.

asked and answered.

[TakeYouToTasker]

asked and answered.

Are you being evasive because you're too stupid to answer, or because you know that the only answers you have are damning to your own position?

[B-Man]

The Dishonest Gun-Control Debate

 

 

 

The gun-control debate is one of the most dishonest arguments we have in American politics. It is dishonest in its particulars, of course, but it is in an important sense dishonest in general: The United States does not suffer from an inflated rate of homicides perpetrated with guns; it suffers from an inflated rate of homicides. The argument about gun control is at its root a way to put conservatives on the defensive about liberal failures, from schools that do not teach to police departments that do not police and criminal-justice systems that do not bring criminals to justice. The gun-control debate is an exercise in changing the subject.

 

First, the broad factual context: The United States has a homicide rate of 4.8 per 100,000, which is much higher than that of most Western European or Anglosphere countries (1.1 for France, 1.0 for Australia). Within European countries, the relationship between gun regulation and homicide is by no means straightforward: Gun-loving Switzerland has a lower rate of homicide than do more tightly regulated countries such as the United Kingdom and Sweden. Cuba, being a police state, has very strict gun laws, but it has a higher homicide rate than does the United States (5.0). Other than the truly shocking position of the United States,

the list of countries ranked by homicide rates contains few if any surprises.

 

We hear a lot about “gun deaths” in the United States, but we hear less often the fact that the great majority of those deaths are suicides — more than two-thirds of them. Which is to say, the great majority of our “gun death” incidents are not conventional crimes but intentionally self-inflicted wounds: private despair, not blood in the streets. Among non-fatal gunshot injuries, about one-third are accidents. We hear a great deal about the bane of “assault rifles,” but all rifles combined — scary-looking ones and traditional-looking ones alike — account for very few homicides, only 358 in 2010. We hear a great deal about “weapons of war” turning our streets into high-firepower battle zones, but this is mostly untrue: As far as law-enforcement records document, legally owned fully automatic weapons have been used in exactly two homicides in the modern era, and one of those was a police-issue weapon used by a police officer to murder a troublesome police informant.

 

Robert VerBruggen has long labored over the various inflated statistical claims about the effects of gun-control policies made by both sides of the debate. You will not, in the end, find much correlation. There are some places with very strict gun laws and lots of crime, some places with very liberal gun laws and very little crime, some places with strict guns laws and little crime, and some places with liberal gun laws and lots of crime. Given the variation between countries, the variation within other countries, and the variation within the United States, the most reasonable conclusion is that the most important variable in violent crime is not the regulation of firearms. There are many reasons that Zurich does not much resemble Havana, and many reasons San Diego does not resemble Detroit.

 

The Left, of course, very strongly desires not to discuss those reasons, because those reasons often point to the failure of progressive policies. For this reason, statistical and logical legerdemain is the order of the day when it comes to the gun debate.

 

 

{snip}

 

 

On the political side, perhaps you have heard that the National Rifle Association is one of the most powerful and feared lobbies on Capitol Hill. What you probably have not heard is that it is nowhere near the top of the list of Washington money-movers. In terms of campaign contributions, the NRA is not in the top five or top ten or top 100: It is No. 228. In terms of lobbying outlays, it is No. 171. Unlike the National Beer Wholesalers Association or the American Federation of Teachers, it does not appear on the

list of top-20 PACs. Unlike the National Auto Dealers Association, it does not appear on the list of top-20 PACs that favor Republicans. There is a lot of loose talk about the NRA buying loyalty on Capitol Hill, but the best political-science scholarship suggests that on issues such as gun rights and abortion, the donations follow the votes, not the other way around. That is not a secret: It is just something that people like Gabby Giffords would rather not admit.

 

 

.

[/dev/null]

Greatest gun salesman in US history:

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/46455-background-checks-gun-purchases-each-day-under-obama

 

I'll probably be going thru 2 gun checks sometime this year

[B-Man]

Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-20039031.html

[Brandon]

http://www.budsgunsh..._id/41868 agun manufactured for buyers to imagine a use. HD and SHTF in the gun culture vernacular: "home defense and "when the shite hits the fan". hmmm. i'm wondering if there are varying definitions of both of those situations. and of the ability of the buyer to decide.

 

http://www.gandermou...0&merchID=4005: a gun with many well defined practical uses and damn good at them. which one is more valuable? which one is more in demand? the answers are vey likely different...

 

Remington markets home defense and hunting variants of BOTH the 1100 and 870...as do most shotgun manufacturers who build on both actions.

 

I think its laughable that you chose the 1100 as your example of semiauto shotguns being vile, evil weapons of mass destruction. Right. In reality, the 1100 is one of the most popular hunting and competitive shooting shotguns that has ever been made. Remington has been marketing them to hunters since they were first built in the 60s...long before the tacticool mall-ninja fad took hold. And that wasn't their first semi-auto shotgun by any means. They've been building and marketing them to hunters since the old model 11 back in 1905. And they're certainly not the only manufacturer who has long since offered a semi-auto marketed to hunters. Far from it.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Brandon

[/dev/null]

Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

 

http://www.cbsnews.c...2-20039031.html

 

Mitt Romney owns a horse