MRW Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 EJ Manuel is a good prospect. Is he an elite prospect? I don't think so. Can he be a successful NFL QB? He has the physical tools to help him get there. That's for sure. Basically, he has just as many question marks as some other guys. I'm not going to blow my load and take him at 8. Nor would I give up picks to move back up into the 1st or top of the 2nd to take him. Would I take him at 41? Absolutely because the potential is there. Will it take a year or two for him to reach that potential? Most likely. Can he be successful right away? If he had the right scheme, coaching and running game to take the weight off his shoulders right away. I don't see any elite QBs. An elite QB is a guy like Luck who has no real weaknesses and is a guy that you know you can draft and not worry about the QB position for a long time. Elite QBs are not going to be available at 8 in any draft, based on your definition. Waiting until pick 41 only works if you think that the 5-6 guys you're looking at who are there with pick #8 are truly interchangeable, and you don't care which one you're left with by the time you get to #41.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) He has prototypical size and athleticism. That much I really like. But that's not the definition of what makes a successful QB in the NFL. Here's what I question about him. -Almost 75% of his throws came within 10 yards. Is that by design? Is that scheme? Is that where his primary read was? Was he asked to consistently go through more than one read? For a guy who can extend plays why didn't he throw it deeper more? Is this the end all be all? No. But it's just something to think about. I wasn't in the film room or have a playbook. I don't know what he's being asked to do. But I question why would a guy with great arm strength and the ability to extend a play and allow his receivers to get open not have longer attempts? -FSU did not have a difficult schedule. Not even close. Did I watch every FSU game? No. But I probably did what everyone else did and watched his throws on Youtube. Does he have elite size and athleticism to play QB in the NFL? Absolutely Does he have the intelligence and ability to be able to consistently go through progressions, throw his receivers open and throw a ball that allows his receivers to run after the catch? It's tough to say. He was so inconsistent with his ball placement and throwing to guys that were already open that I don't know how well it will translate in the NFL. Does he have leadership abilities to rally his team from behind or keep his head up and keep throwing down field despite not having a good game? Again, I don't know. I'd like to think he does but I also question it. EJ Manuel is a good prospect. Is he an elite prospect? I don't think so. Can he be a successful NFL QB? He has the physical tools to help him get there. That's for sure. Basically, he has just as many question marks as some other guys. I'm not going to blow my load and take him at 8. Nor would I give up picks to move back up into the 1st or top of the 2nd to take him. Would I take him at 41? Absolutely because the potential is there. Will it take a year or two for him to reach that potential? Most likely. Can he be successful right away? If he had the right scheme, coaching and running game to take the weight off his shoulders right away. I don't see any elite QBs. An elite QB is a guy like Luck who has no real weaknesses and is a guy that you know you can draft and not worry about the QB position for a long time. Do the QBs in this draft have the ability to be a franchise QB? Absolutely. It's just hard to say who right now. If I had to rank them: Geno Smith Matt Barkley Tyler Wilson EJ Manuel Ryan Nassib Mike Glennon Tyler Bray Landry Jones Zac Dysert If I was a betting man I'd say both Geno and Barkely go before we pick at 8 and that we draft Tyler Wilson with our 2nd pick. First of all, thanks for a very thoughtful and well-researched reply. To your point about dink and dunk, a few posters here who follow Seminoles football closely agreed that Jimbo Fisher's offense was very reliant on the short pass, which as has been established, Manuel executed extremely well. Fisher apparently came under some criticism for not taking the wraps off Manuel and letting him do what his skillset seems most suited for, attacking downfield. As for what I watched, I watched his 4 games from this season (probably 250-270 plays) and have not watched the 2011 season yet, mostly because I think it's less relevant what he did as a junior. I wanted to see his most recent level of development, his senior year. To some of the concerns about Manuel that seem to be out there, my observation is that he sees the field well. It also looks to me like he's a competitor. His body language and his willingness to sacrifice his body were both consistently obvious unlike for instance, Geno Smith. I was not impressed with Florida State's O-line as far as pass blocking but it looked to me like Manuel was not skittish nor did he bail out at the first sign of trouble. I thought he showed great poise AND pocket awareness. There were numerous plays where he sensed without seeing the pass rush and moved perfectly in accordance. As far as "having as many question marks as the other QBs" I would say that the ONLY advantage any QB in this draft has on Manuel is that they are more polished or "pro ready." I believe the same thing was said about Ricky Stanzi, he played in a pro-style offense and was polished. Let's make one thing clear: I have no desire to draft Andy Dalton v2. IF all of these QBs have questions, I'll take the one who has elite talent, great intelligence, and zero discernible character flaws. I'll let those hung up on pro-readiness take the Barkleys and Nassibs of the world. As far as moving in the first round, I've repeatedly argued against moving up. I've stated numerous times how nice it would be to move down and pick up extra picks and still get the QB of choice HOWEVER as many others have stated and I agree with, if there's a QB at #8 that you're completely convinced can be "The Guy" then it's pointless and actually reckless to trade down and hope you can get him "on the cheap." That's why I would simply take Manuel at #8. The only QBs on your list I would take in the first round would be Geno Smith and Manuel. Any of the other QBs I'd be happy to get in the second round because IMO, those guys are second round talents. JMO. Edited March 16, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan
chris heff Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 First of all, thanks for a very thoughtful and well-researched reply. To your point about dink and dunk, a few posters here who follow Seminoles football closely agreed that Jimbo Fisher's offense was very reliant on the short pass, which as has been established, Manuel executed extremely well. Fisher apparently came under some criticism for not taking the wraps off Manuel and letting him do what his skillset seems most suited for, attacking downfield. As for what I watched, I watched his 4 games from this season (probably 250-270 plays) and have not watched the 2011 season yet, mostly because I think it's less relevant what he did as a junior. I wanted to see his most recent level of development, his senior year. To some of the concerns about Manuel that seem to be out there, my observation is that he sees the field well. It also looks to me like he's a competitor. His body language and his willingness to sacrifice his body were both consistently obvious unlike for instance, Geno Smith. I was not impressed with Florida State's O-line as far as pass blocking but it looked to me like Manuel was not skittish nor did he bail out at the first sign of trouble. I thought he showed great poise AND pocket awareness. There were numerous plays where he sensed without seeing the pass rush and moved perfectly in accordance. As far as "having as many question marks as the other QBs" I would say that the ONLY advantage any QB in this draft has on Manuel is that they are more polished or "pro ready." I believe the same thing was said about Ricky Stanzi, he played in a pro-style offense and was polished. Let's make one thing clear: I have no desire to draft Andy Dalton v2. IF all of these QBs have questions, I'll take the one who has elite talent, great intelligence, and zero discernible character flaws. I'll let those hung up on pro-readiness take the Barkleys and Nassibs of the world. As far as moving in the first round, I've repeatedly argued against moving up. I've stated numerous times how nice it would be to move down and pick up extra picks and still get the QB of choice HOWEVER as many others have stated and I agree with, if there's a QB at #8 that you're completely convinced can be "The Guy" then it's pointless and actually reckless to trade down and hope you can get him "on the cheap." That's why I would simply take Manuel at #8. The only QBs on your list I would take in the first round would be Geno Smith and Manuel. Any of the other QBs I'd be happy to get in the second round because IMO, those guys are second round talents. JMO. Could not agree more.
Cap'nCrunch Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 If we drafted EJ at #8, for about 5 to 10 minutes until the 9th pick is made, the Bills brass would have to endure the talking heads on the draft coverage complain about what a reach EJ is. I have a feeling they could handle it. In Buddy (& Doug) We Trust.
Bangarang Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 I think this is all a moot point. Buddy has shown the most interest in Tyler Wilson. They met with him at the Senior Bowl. They met with him at the combine. They'll likely bring him in for a workout and visit. Everything I've seen so far has shown that Nix thinks very highly of Wilson. That's my opinion but I truly believe Tyler Wilson will be the QB of this team come week 1.
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 I think this is all a moot point. Buddy has shown the most interest in Tyler Wilson. They met with him at the Senior Bowl. They met with him at the combine. They'll likely bring him in for a workout and visit. Everything I've seen so far has shown that Nix thinks very highly of Wilson. That's my opinion but I truly believe Tyler Wilson will be the QB of this team come week 1. That is something I have noticed. They seem most intrigued with wilson. I wonder if it is a smokescreen to throw people off about nassib, since they really know everything they would have to know on him. I would take Wilson over Nassib though. But they have publically shown most interest in wilson
#34fan Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 If you take Tyler Wilson, you had BETTER take Cobi Hamilton with him. Those two go together like butter on toast. Heck, even if you take E.J. you could do alot worse than Hamilton. Either him or Quinton Patton could make Stevie our #2 reciever. Ooooooh! That's right, I said it.
yungmack Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 I concur. Mike Mayock is very high on this kid and I can see why. He has a good arm, accurate and able to keep plays alive. You overstate about Mayock. In fact, he doesn't think any of the QBs this year are top quality. And he only moved Manuel up because, as he said, if you're going to miss on a pick, at least miss on one who has the basic skills looked for in QBs. That's a long way from "being high" on Manuel.
ExWNYer Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 I concur. Mike Mayock is very high on this kid and I can see why. He has a good arm, accurate and able to keep plays alive. You overstate about Mayock. In fact, he doesn't think any of the QBs this year are top quality. And he only moved Manuel up because, as he said, if you're going to miss on a pick, at least miss on one who has the basic skills looked for in QBs. That's a long way from "being high" on Manuel. I like Manuel and, generally speaking, I like Mayock. But for those ready to anoint him for sainthood, consider his pre-draft opinions on Cam Newton & Andrew Luck. He's far from infallible and I don't trust his assessment of QBs. Comparing Luck to Bradford?? Bradford couldn't carry Luck's jock. On Newton: “Something tells me that he’ll be content to be a multimillionaire who’s pretty good,” Mayock said. ”And doesn’t get it done for me.” While admitting Newton has handled the pre-draft process well, it’s telling that a final evaluation of Newton (and others) often comes down to a gut feeling, even for the best draft analysts and decision makers. And Mayock just isn’t feeling Newton. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/25/mayock-on-cam-newton-i-dont-know-how-great-he-wants-to-be/ On Luck: Mayock just doesn’t see Luck as some sort of “once in a lifetime” prospect like others have indicated. (Yes, others means ESPN in this case.) Mayock compared Luck’s talent level more to someone like Sam Bradford. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/15/mayock-luck-is-great-but-not-a-once-in-a-lifetime/
Bangarang Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Sorry no link. Manuel will workout for the Bills on Monday in Florida and will meet them again in Buffalo at a later date.
The Big Cat Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I really just want to go to sleep and wake up tomorrow, five weeks later.
Magox Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 He's one of the four QB's that I'd be happy with from this year's draft.
thebandit27 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 He's one of the four QB's that I'd be happy with from this year's draft. Interesting you say this, because that's exactly where I'm at as well...who are the other 3? I'll hazard a guess: Smith, Wilson, & Nassib?
Brainiac21 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 He's one of the four QB's that I'd be happy with from this year's draft. one of 5 or 6.. depending on Barkley's pro day / arm strength. i include matt scott since he'd be a later pick and it means we'd probably take one high from the 2014 class.
The Big Cat Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 one of 5 or 6.. depending on Barkley's pro day / arm strength. i include matt scott since he'd be a later pick and it means we'd probably take one high from the 2014 class. I go five: Smith, Barkley, Manuel, Nassib, Dysert (in that order)
John from Riverside Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 We are gonna get one of these guys folks....the question is which one?
Johnny Hammersticks Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 If Geno Smith and Barkley are off the board at #8, I think Manuel in the 2nd round would be a great pick. Personally, I would love to get a dominant OL in the 1st round (i.e., Eric Fisher/Lane Johnson/Warmack), EJ Manuel in the 2nd round, and maybe a WR in the 3rd round (Quinton Patton/Ryan Swope). Then go defense the rest of the way unless a good TE slides to the 4th.
Magox Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Interesting you say this, because that's exactly where I'm at as well...who are the other 3? I'll hazard a guess: Smith, Wilson, & Nassib? Geno, Nassib and Barkley... Barkley simply because there are some scouts who are absolutely convinced that he is the best quarterback in this year's draft. Not saying I agree with that, but the level of conviction from some of these guys, sorta swayed me.
mrags Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I go five: Smith, Barkley, Manuel, Nassib, Dysert (in that order) id agree with this. No matter what order. Like John said, he'd like Manuel, one reason would be that we run have the opportunity to draft someone else at 8, like Jordan, or Patterson and then Manuel in the 2nd or maybe even the 3rd. Ill defer to the pros. If they think Manuel is the guy in this draft, ill take it. But any of the others would be fine also.
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