San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 As with Randy and Bandit I believe that teams generally target individual QBs, not groups of QBs. This is not fantasy football. The guy has to fit your scheme and be tailored to your system and your coaching staff. I don't think it matters to the NFL teams if a group of QBs are more or less equal in overall talent and they can just grab one at a certain point in the draft. More likely their evaluations are very specific for fit.
JohnC Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 As with Randy and Bandit I believe that teams generally target individual QBs, not groups of QBs. This is not fantasy football. The guy has to fit your scheme and be tailored to your system and your coaching staff. I don't think it matters to the NFL teams if a group of QBs are more or less equal in overall talent and they can just grab one at a certain point in the draft. More likely their evaluations are very specific for fit. What if you believed that the qb you preferred can be available with a lower first round pick? Wouldn't you consider making that maneuver if you can get an extra high round pick or two? All teams enter the draft with opton A&B plans. There are no guarantees that other teams won't make a deal to get ahead of you in the draft. This draft has no elite qb prospects as it did last year. That doesn't mean that you can't get a high quality prospect with your pick. My general point is that you have to keep your options open and consider making deals that will enhance your roster. For the sake of an argument if the Bills believed that Nassib was the right qb selection for them does it make much sense to draft him at the eight spot when he should be available at the 15th spot or lower? My qb preference is Tyler Wilson. If the Bills also liked him and believed that he would still be there by the 15th pick why not talk to some of the lower drafting teams for an extra second round pick or so? Would you be taking a risk? Of course. But taking risks and making draft adjustments is part of the draft experience.
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Out of this group of QB's outside of Geno Smith, YE OLE likes Manuel the best. YE OLE was feeling pretty sick to his stomach when folks were talking like we were gonna run out and get Nassib.
DanInUticaTampa Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 I said he reminded me of Rivers just because to me he looks like him in the pocket....BIG. Dion Jordan reminds me of Aldon Smith and John Abraham. It would be great to have 2 top DEs rushing the passer. I don't think there is a MLB worthy of the number 8 spot. The top of the draft is loaded with pass rushers and we need them to compete with NE. I don't care what others say about Manuel........I love the guy and think he is big enough and smart enough and talented enough for the Bills. We are going to be a running team, right? I am leaning towards this too reguarding our first pick. Which is a good/bad thing imo. On one hand, having another pass rusher would do wonders for us, having LB be a liabiltly for us might hold us back too much. Like you said, there really aren't any MLB worth 8th pick.... I haven't looked too much into FA, but getting LB help in free agency might be a good idea.
mrags Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 The issue here is that trading down jettisons the team's opportunity to draft a top 10 talent. Right now, Buffalo is absolutely guaranteed to get one of the top 8 players on their board...why give that up? your barking up the wrong tree. I was simply stating factual evidence of the trade tendencies. I don't care regardless either way. Would love more picks, but that's only of the Bills don't believe a QB or anyone else for that matter is worth taking that high. If that's the case, trade away. But if they think they can get a real difference maker (Spiller, ngata, Willis) then go for the pick.
thebandit27 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 What if you believed that the qb you preferred can be available with a lower first round pick? Wouldn't you consider making that maneuver if you can get an extra high round pick or two? All teams enter the draft with opton A&B plans. There are no guarantees that other teams won't make a deal to get ahead of you in the draft. This draft has no elite qb prospects as it did last year. That doesn't mean that you can't get a high quality prospect with your pick. My general point is that you have to keep your options open and consider making deals that will enhance your roster. For the sake of an argument if the Bills believed that Nassib was the right qb selection for them does it make much sense to draft him at the eight spot when he should be available at the 15th spot or lower? My qb preference is Tyler Wilson. If the Bills also liked him and believed that he would still be there by the 15th pick why not talk to some of the lower drafting teams for an extra second round pick or so? Would you be taking a risk? Of course. But taking risks and making draft adjustments is part of the draft experience. I feel like it's been explained pretty clearly, but yes, in that scenario, it absolutey makes sense to draft him at the 8th spot. Here's why: who is it, exactly, that gets to decide that a player "should" be available at the 15th spot or lower? If the Bills think a guy is a franchise QB, then it's at least fairly likely that someone else does too. When you move down and forego taking your player, you risk losing him. Moving down from 8 to 15 gives--in the best case scenario that the team you trade with offers assurances of who they're going to pick--6 other teams a chance to take your guy. That's nearly doubling the number of teams picking before you...what happens if your guy gets taken? Is the whole thing shot? You seem to understand that risks are part of the draft experience, so here's the question that I need to understand in order to see where you're coming from: why shouldn't the risk be taken in the form of picking your franchise guy a bit higher than perhaps others feel he "should" be taken? Again, if he works out, nobody's going to complain what round you drafted him in.
Rubes Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I feel like it's been explained pretty clearly, but yes, in that scenario, it absolutey makes sense to draft him at the 8th spot. Here's why: who is it, exactly, that gets to decide that a player "should" be available at the 15th spot or lower? If the Bills think a guy is a franchise QB, then it's at least fairly likely that someone else does too. When you move down and forego taking your player, you risk losing him. Moving down from 8 to 15 gives--in the best case scenario that the team you trade with offers assurances of who they're going to pick--6 other teams a chance to take your guy. That's nearly doubling the number of teams picking before you...what happens if your guy gets taken? Is the whole thing shot? You seem to understand that risks are part of the draft experience, so here's the question that I need to understand in order to see where you're coming from: why shouldn't the risk be taken in the form of picking your franchise guy a bit higher than perhaps others feel he "should" be taken? Again, if he works out, nobody's going to complain what round you drafted him in. Exactly. And if you trade down expecting that the guy should still be available at pick X, someone else who really needs a QB and suspects this is what you're doing may very well trade up to pick (X-1) to jump ahead of you and grab the guy you thought would still be available at pick X. Just because you "think" he should still be available later on, doesn't mean he will be. So it depends on how much you want the guy, and how much you're willing to risk.
JohnC Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I feel like it's been explained pretty clearly, but yes, in that scenario, it absolutey makes sense to draft him at the 8th spot. Here's why: who is it, exactly, that gets to decide that a player "should" be available at the 15th spot or lower? If the Bills think a guy is a franchise QB, then it's at least fairly likely that someone else does too. When you move down and forego taking your player, you risk losing him. Moving down from 8 to 15 gives--in the best case scenario that the team you trade with offers assurances of who they're going to pick--6 other teams a chance to take your guy. That's nearly doubling the number of teams picking before you...what happens if your guy gets taken? Is the whole thing shot? You seem to understand that risks are part of the draft experience, so here's the question that I need to understand in order to see where you're coming from: why shouldn't the risk be taken in the form of picking your franchise guy a bit higher than perhaps others feel he "should" be taken? Again, if he works out, nobody's going to complain what round you drafted him in. There are teams drafting ahead of us that definitely need qbs, such as KC and Arizona. If they do take qbs or even do not odds are that they will do so with their higher second round selections. If that is the case then if you have an offer within the next 5 to 10 spots to still get your preferred qb plus additional picks it would be a reasonable strategy to take. If the Bills believe that a particular qb is their "special" qb then by no means don't take the risk. If their assessment is that there are a couple or few qbs that in the long run are also very good prospects then why not try to garner additional picks. What you and I don't know at this point is how our scouting staff rates the qbs in this draft. If they believe that there are a number of high quality prospects such as Bray and Glennon and Nassib etc then it would be wise to bolster the roster with added numbers. At this point my preferred qb is Tyler Wilson. Given that I don't think he is much better than the other qbs he is competing with. Alex Smith is probably going to be traded this offseason. If he goes to KC or Arizona does that change the strategy for those teams? In my opinion it certainly does, and it will impact the qb draft class as to where they will be selected. I'm not wedded to any one approach. My basic feeling is that coming into this draft it is important to have an open mind in the draft room. Running up to the podium without exploring offers is very self-limiting.
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Ok, now that we all are on the same page, let's set up a meeting with the Bills brass so we can explain our concerns and conclusions ! Oh, and P.S. I'm a Tyler Wilson guy too. Just scares me to think of Glennon back their getting sacked like a statue ala Drew Bledsoe Edited January 30, 2013 by MOVALLEYRANDY
26CornerBlitz Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000147681/article/mike-mayock-elevates-ej-manuel-in-2013-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings
D521646 Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Quarterback 1. Geno Smith, West Virginia 2. EJ Manuel, Florida State 3. Matt Barkley, USC 4. Mike Glennon, N.C. State T-5. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse T-5. Landry Jones, Oklahoma This sucks!! I really like Manuel but I was hoping he'd be there in the 2nd.. Damn! Tim-
purple haze Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Manuel might still be there in the 2nd. I'm not surprised he wound up on Mayock's list though. He has all the physical tools. He hasn't had the consistency though.
peterpan Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 He looks like the 1st overall pick on paper. I just dont know if he reads the D well enough and he seems inconsistent. Thats the last thing we need. But what do I know, I dont study his game film.
Maddog69 Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 What a crazy year for QBs. The only consistent seems to be Geno. Most of the rankings have had him as the #1 QB and that has not faltered. The rest have all been flipping and flopping all over the place
Justice Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) Ha ha ha! I knew it! I told everyone that would listen that EJ will rise and rise fast in the draft. He is the best QB in this years' class. I hope he ends up a Bill. The kid has all the tools to be great. Edited March 7, 2013 by NoJustice
Brainiac21 Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Was unlisted before right? And now rest of list is the same but previous 2-5 moved down. meh, i guess. but surprised he still has Glennon above Nassib. not seeing it, i'd have him like 7th or 8th. But who knows, he may hear about Nassib's pro day today and move them around again next week.
RealityCheck Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Ha ha ha! I knew it! I told everyone that would listen that EJ will rise and rise fast in the draft. He is the best QB in this years' class. I hope he ends up a Bill. The kid has all the tools to be great. EJ looks like a real player to me too. If the Bills take him at #8 I will be happy.
DDD Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Ha ha ha! I knew it! I told everyone that would listen that EJ will rise and rise fast in the draft. He is the best QB in this years' class. I hope he ends up a Bill. The kid has all the tools to be great. JP Losman had the "tools" too. This year's QB class may be the worst in over a decade. I personally wouldn't draft any of these guys until the 3rd round.
KOKBILLS Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 JP Losman had the "tools" too. This year's QB class may be the worst in over a decade. I personally wouldn't draft any of these guys until the 3rd round. You don't even have to like Manuel much to understand he's got a hell of a lot more going for him than Losman did...I'm not advocating Drafting Manuel at #8...But I'd be happy with him at #41...And I'm not even sure he'll make it that far...Manuel may be raw and have some accuracy issues...But he's got serious upside too...And QB's with his tools get over-drafted for a reason...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 You don't even have to like Manuel much to understand he's got a hell of a lot more going for him than Losman did...I'm not advocating Drafting Manuel at #8...But I'd be happy with him at #41...And I'm not even sure he'll make it that far...Manuel may be raw and have some accuracy issues...But he's got serious upside too...And QB's with his tools get over-drafted for a reason... Kaepernickish Prospect?...Could be really good in a couple of years.
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