mjm3773 Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 Although I am still worried about Manziel's character issues I keep reading that Clowney wants in . If some team agrees with him and drafts him they would win in court. If Clowney goes 5, 6, 7 I think we will get Manziel. If he goes earlier someone else will take Johnny as they'll have time to do some research. If Clowney doesn't go I doubt we have the guts. No team will draft Clowney and if they did, they would lose in court. They would end up forfeiting that pick and most likely be penalized a future pick by the NFL for violating the Collective Bargaing Agreement. The CBA between the NFL and the NFLPA clearly states that a player must have three years pass between his high school graduation and when he becomes eligible for the draft. And before you start saying that Clowney never agreed to the CBA and thus isn't bound to it, the Supreme Court has ruled that a union, such as the NFLPA, negotiates not only on behalf of its current members, but for its future members as well, including Clowney. I can't believe this nonsense has gone on for eight pages.
Lurker Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 I can't believe this nonsense has gone on for eight pages. Spend more time at TSW and you will...
4merper4mer Posted February 20, 2013 Author Posted February 20, 2013 No team will draft Clowney and if they did, they would lose in court. They would end up forfeiting that pick and most likely be penalized a future pick by the NFL for violating the Collective Bargaing Agreement. The CBA between the NFL and the NFLPA clearly states that a player must have three years pass between his high school graduation and when he becomes eligible for the draft. And before you start saying that Clowney never agreed to the CBA and thus isn't bound to it, the Supreme Court has ruled that a union, such as the NFLPA, negotiates not only on behalf of its current members, but for its future members as well, including Clowney. I can't believe this nonsense has gone on for eight pages. There was a guy in baseball named Kent Flood who challenged the MLB restraint of trade and won. The NFL's case is even weaker than the MLB's was. Clowney may end up being Maurice Clarinet part 2 or he may win. IMO it is worth the risk to get a QB like Manziel especially if the Bills have another NFL team who took Clowney as an ally in court.
mjm3773 Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) There was a guy in baseball named Kent Flood who challenged the MLB restraint of trade and won. The NFL's case is even weaker than the MLB's was. Clowney may end up being Maurice Clarinet part 2 or he may win. IMO it is worth the risk to get a QB like Manziel especially if the Bills have another NFL team who took Clowney as an ally in court. His name was Curt Flood, and he actually lost (although his case actually paved the way for the later Messersmith and McNally arbitration cases). And those cases aren't comparable to this. Those cases involved challenges by players to the "reserve clause" in their contracts between them and their respective teams, and how that clause was to be interpreted. The clause basically said that if a player's contract ran out and he didn't sign a new contract, his team could basically renew the contract for a one year period (thus, he was "reserved" to that team and there was no free agency). The owners argued that the clause went on in perpetuity, so that they held a player's rights forever. The players argued that the clause only applied to the next year, after which they became free agents. That's how free agency was introduced to baseball. These facts have nothing to do with an already established CBA between management and a union. Edited February 20, 2013 by mjm3773
4merper4mer Posted February 20, 2013 Author Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) His name was Curt Flood, and he actually lost (although his case actually paved the way for the later Messersmith and McNally arbitration cases). And those cases aren't comparable to this. Those cases involved challenges by players to the "reserve clause" in their contracts between them and their respective teams, and how that clause was to be interpreted. The clause basically said that if a player's contract ran out and he didn't sign a new contract, his team could basically renew the contract for a one year period (thus, he was "reserved" to that team and there was no free agency). The owners argued that the clause went on in perpetuity, so that they held a player's rights forever. The players argued that the clause only applied to the next year, after which they became free agents. That's how free agency was introduced to baseball. These facts have nothing to do with an already established CBA between management and a union. The parallel was that in baseball the owners conspired with each other to restrain trade. In football the players union and owners are conspiring to restrain trade with younger players. It is the same legally even if the details are slightly different. And I think Kent Flood was his brother who played for the Dodgers. So in this case Maurice Clarinet is like Kent/Curt Flood and Clowney and Manziel are like Messersmith and McNally. Hopefully they don't end up sucking like those guys did. I guess they were ok but we need Manziel to be more than ok. Edited February 20, 2013 by 4merper4mer
mjm3773 Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 The parallel was that in baseball the owners conspired with each other to restrain trade. In football the players union and owners are conspiring to restrain trade with younger players. It is the same legally even if the details are slightly different. And I think Kent Flood was his brother who played for the Dodgers. So in this case Maurice Clarinet is like Kent/Curt Flood and Clowney and Manziel are like Messersmith and McNally. Hopefully they don't end up sucking like those guys did. I guess they were ok but we need Manziel to be more than ok. Just because they are both restraints of trade in sports does not mean that one can be used to argue the other because laws are applied to similar sets of facts. But in this case, the facts are clearly different: a player suing his team for its action alone vs. a player suing the league for it's CBA with a union. The same ruling won't automatically be applied to two entire different sets of facts. Now if you wanted to argue something along the lines of the Spencer Heywood case, that might be different. And Clowney might have a case under the Rule of Reason. But even if he did, that just means he would be eligible, and your original premise that the Bills should draft Manziel still wouldn't apply since he has shown no interest in applying for the NFL draft. And finally, it was just Curt Flood. He has no brother that played professional baseball, let alone Major League Baseball for the Dodgers. A simple search on baseball-reference.com would show that.
4merper4mer Posted February 20, 2013 Author Posted February 20, 2013 Just because they are both restraints of trade in sports does not mean that one can be used to argue the other because laws are applied to similar sets of facts. But in this case, the facts are clearly different: a player suing his team for its action alone vs. a player suing the league for it's CBA with a union. The same ruling won't automatically be applied to two entire different sets of facts. Now if you wanted to argue something along the lines of the Spencer Heywood case, that might be different. And Clowney might have a case under the Rule of Reason. But even if he did, that just means he would be eligible, and your original premise that the Bills should draft Manziel still wouldn't apply since he has shown no interest in applying for the NFL draft. And finally, it was just Curt Flood. He has no brother that played professional baseball, let alone Major League Baseball for the Dodgers. A simple search on baseball-reference.com would show that. We'll have to agree to disagree on the legal stuff. I understand that the Bills would have to agree with Manziel on teaming up for a legal fight before drafting him. You are right about Flood though. I think Felipe and Matty Alou's brother Kent was the one that played for the Dodgers. Sorry about that.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 There are still a lot of people here who believe we should draft Alabama's Honey Badger, Dee Milliner. I hate the idea but he's supposed to be a great football player, as all honored with that moniker must be.
NoSaint Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 There are still a lot of people here who believe we should draft Alabama's Honey Badger, Dee Milliner. I hate the idea but he's supposed to be a great football player, as all honored with that moniker must be. I think if nix pulls this "Johnny Online" draft steal off, buddy should be named our honey badger. Controversial? Sure. Honey badger doesn't care though.
JohnC Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 I think if nix pulls this "Johnny Online" draft steal off, buddy should be named our honey badger. Controversial? Sure. Honey badger doesn't care though. If country Buddy should use his first round pick to draft Dee Millner what do you think NYC Bill;s reaction would be? I see a gotham city volcanic eruption spewing profanities and spittle to all who are in the line of fire.
4merper4mer Posted February 21, 2013 Author Posted February 21, 2013 There are still a lot of people here who believe we should draft Alabama's Honey Badger, Dee Milliner. I hate the idea but he's supposed to be a great football player, as all honored with that moniker must be. I think Alabama calls their guy the Iron Bowler or something like that. LSU's top guy is Honey Badger.
4merper4mer Posted March 10, 2013 Author Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/ If we are not confident that the Bills will be successful drafting Manziel with all the NFL lawyers buzzing about maybe we can start a petition to have the White House intervene on behalf of free trade. How do you dudes think the wording on the petition should go? Edited March 10, 2013 by 4merper4mer
Hotpockets28 Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Cocaine is a hella of a drug......brought to you by Rick james!!! ...B@#$&!!!
Hotpockets28 Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Bills suck soooo bad that they wont need to tank the season...if fitzrofltrick is our starter for next season it will be all over before it even starts
boyst Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Cocaine is a hella of a drug......brought to you by Rick james!!! ...B@#$&!!! A sense of humor is always a good thing to have.
first_and_ten Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/ If we are not confident that the Bills will be successful drafting Manziel with all the NFL lawyers buzzing about maybe we can start a petition to have the White House intervene on behalf of free trade. How do you dudes think the wording on the petition should go? Unfortunately because of the sequester, the White House will not be able to pay for any intervention. Just out luck.
machine gun kelly Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Did anyone see the scene from Happy Gilmore " that is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard and this room, etc. I wish I knew how to attach these clips or would have thrown in there. Fergy, I love the Damon clip. To who started this thread, it's cut and dry and nothing you can do in court other than make an ass of yourself. You have to be three years out of high school, and cannot break it. We all like Manziel, but there will be 4 excellent QB opportunities next year so it makes sense to take bpa at #8 and a QB in the second round. Then next year we pull a redskins deal (we hope we're not that bad to get it on our own) and give picks away for a star. If we pick up a couple of modest free agents who understand pet tine's scheme, this year and score in the third as well, we could have a solid team in two years.
Captain Hindsight Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Did anyone see the scene from Happy Gilmore " that is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard and this room, etc. I wish I knew how to attach these clips or would have thrown in there. Fergy, I love the Damon clip. To who started this thread, it's cut and dry and nothing you can do in court other than make an ass of yourself. You have to be three years out of high school, and cannot break it. We all like Manziel, but there will be 4 excellent QB opportunities next year so it makes sense to take bpa at #8 and a QB in the second round. Then next year we pull a redskins deal (we hope we're not that bad to get it on our own) and give picks away for a star. If we pick up a couple of modest free agents who understand pet tine's scheme, this year and score in the third as well, we could have a solid team in two years. Caught another one
Saint Doug Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 This Manziel talk has got to stop. Don't people understand the planning/hard work/ineptness/price that goes into getting the #1 overall pick?
Bills Fan since '64 Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 When I saw this topic, I thought the guy who wrote it is either a genius or a moron. Guess what? The jury has returned a verdict!
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